[Deck] Death and Taxes

[from Cairo]

MOSTLY STANDARD LIST
3 horizon canopy
4 wasteland
3 rishadan port (sucks i know, but i can't seem to get my hands on a 4th)
3 karakas (4th is used in my Rock deck, but 3 is still fine IMO)
10 Plains
[23 Lands]
4 mom
4 talia
4 SFM
4 revoker
4 flickerwisp
3 avanger
2 mangara of corondor
2 BRIMAZ / MIRRAN CRUSADER
[27 Creatures]
4 vial
4 swords to plowshares
1 batterskull
1 umezawas jitte
1 sword of fire/ice
[11 Spells]

thanks in advance for all your thoughts

Your list comes in at 61 cards which is almost certainly 1 too many cards in an archetype like this with zero card selection/filtering. I think 1 of the Creatures has to be dropped. I think probably a Flickerwisp or Brimaz/Crusader is the most likely candidate. I've been a gigantic advocate of four Flickerwisp being near locked, due to them being such good top decks and the Exile for a turn being able to turn the tide on unfavorable board states. I'm kicking around a similar list (-1 Canopy, -2 Mangara; +1 Port, +2 Aven), but haven't gotten to actually test [cards]Brimaz, King of Oreskos[cards] yet (waiting on my preorder).

As far as the debate of which is better Mirran Crusader or Brimaz? I think Crusader is at it's best value against BUG decks. They generally are pretty light on removal - just Decays and Liliana. In my experience we can usually overload them, but Crusader can be an easy button for sure. I suppose it's also worth noting that Mirran Crusader is a phenominal equipment carrier against Elves, since it can't be Symbiote fogged. Versus a broader selection of decks I think Brimaz presents more power. I'm thinking especially decks with sweepers - Miracles, UW Supreme Blade, etc.

One thing worth noting on our differences is that in a build with Avens one has 10-11 Fliers (3 Serra Avenger, 2 Avens, 3-4 Wisp); in this configuration I'm a bit more comfortable dropping a Wisp for the 2nd Brimaz, when you're dropping from 7 Fliers to 6 it hurts a bit more for racing TNNs.

I think it will take some testing to see what configuration is going to give the best game against a TNN saturated format, while still providing us the tools we need to address Elves

[Tru3z3rox]

I'm new to DNT. What do you guys think of Jubilation Angel? It seems like a good late game bomb that works well with Brimaz tokens and ends the game more quickly. I'm not entirely sure what its ability applies to.

- Natural Order
- Fetches
- Grislebrand
- ???

[Barbed Blightning]

I'm new to DNT. What do you guys think of Jubilation Angel? It seems like a good late game bomb that works well with Brimaz tokens and ends the game more quickly. I'm not entirely sure what its ability applies to.

- Natural Order
- Fetches
- Grislebrand
- ???

It'll always land too late/ die easily. Abilities would be great on a cheaper creature

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[Tru3z3rox]

It'll always land too late/ die easily. Abilities would be great on a cheaper creature

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

But at that point don't we already have mom and maybe hasn't their removal already been used on other threatening creatures? What else is that ability good against?

[Barbed Blightning]

But at that point don't we already have mom and maybe hasn't their removal already been used on other threatening creatures? What else is that ability good against?

Dude, it's off curve and all the sweepers we care about hit 2-3 turns earlier. Against Jund, where it would be conceivably good, it is still victim to bolt. At least Wilt-leaf liege isn't and makes them think twice about that hymn/Lilly +1.

Stifling fetches: mindcensor does it sooner, and hits SFM, GSZ and Infernal Tutor as well.

Again, if it were a 3 drop or a 4/4, I'd consider it.

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[AggroSteve]

Your list comes in at 61 cards which is almost certainly 1 too many cards in an archetype like this with zero card selection/filtering.

i have been playing every deck i ever built with 61 cards ( and will never change that :P). the difference between 61 cards and 60 cards is that small it does not even matter at all IMO. In math: the probabilities to draw specific cards in your opener and later in the game i think change about a half percent, or something like that.

so in this case i would think that in a deck without filtering i would think it is actually counterproductive cutting anything you want to see more times in a game (hence a 4-off would be best)
i would not want to cut anything from my creatures because "probabilities would get worse for that creature to be drawn during a game by over 25% compared to about a half percent when i am using 61 cards

all in all, i think its perfectly fine running either 60 cards or 61 cards (62 is allready a bit to high IMO)

btw. i tried 60 cards as well..... felt not comfortable from the beginning with it,... and somehow i felt like that with 60 cards and 23 lands i got flooded way to often, but with 22 lands i got screwed to often (hence i got back to 61 plus the 3 horizon canopys.... i love them)

[Kayradis]

I don't know if the idea has been brought before....
But.
With TNN....
and other problematic creatures
What about Runed Halo ?

Am I weeks too late?

[Barbed Blightning]

I don't know if the idea has been brought before....
But.
With TNN....
and other problematic creatures
What about Runed Halo ?

Am I weeks too late?

It's been discussed. Not good enough.

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[Kayradis]

Okay.

And here I was all excited.

[Mr. Froggy]

Of the people who have triee Mufasa and SoL, how have they been?

[Barbed Blightning]

Both very lukewarm. Mufasa is really high impact vs spot removal and combo, but lacks disruption. SoL dies to everything but has a nice effect. Either way, we need more testing

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[Fry]

I've always loved [cards]Wing Shards[cards] and have put a couple of those in my sideboard. They are great against TNN's and also against Elves.

[Finn]

Fry, the reason why Wing Shards is mediocre against Elves is the same reason all of our hate is. They have a lot of ways of accomplishing the same thing, and, in the card pool available to us, I just don't know of any way to disable all of those methods. Wing Shards can effectively end the giant buildup turn followed by attack that Elves has always been able to pull off. But if they Natural Order into Craterhoof or go Cradle into Cradle, they get enough mana to Zenith for him without the storm counters. We have hate for everything Elves does. But it is spread among lots of different cards that you have to get lucky no matter what. So ask yourself - is it better than Canonist? Aven Mindcensor? Cursed Totem? Grafdigger's Cage? There is a lot of hate coming in for this matchup. Which will you cut in favor of Wing Shards? I think they are all stronger than Shards.
BUT
I use Celestial Flare in that role against TNN decks, and I have been happy enough so far. The lower cost is a pretty big deal to the point that I also like it against other creatures. Worth discussing.

[Barbed Blightning]

Fry, the reason why Wing Shards is mediocre against Elves is the same reason all of our hate is. They have a lot of ways of accomplishing the same thing, and, in the card pool available to us, I just don't know of any way to disable all of those methods. Wing Shards can effectively end the giant buildup turn followed by attack that Elves has always been able to pull off. But if they Natural Order into Craterhoof or go Cradle into Cradle, they get enough mana to Zenith for him without the storm counters. We have hate for everything Elves does. But it is spread among lots of different cards that you have to get lucky no matter what. So ask yourself - is it better than Canonist? Aven Mindcensor? Cursed Totem? Grafdigger's Cage? There is a lot of hate coming in for this matchup. Which will you cut in favor of Wing Shards? I think they are all stronger than Shards.
BUT
I use Celestial Flare in that role against TNN decks, and I have been happy enough so far. The lower cost is a pretty big deal to the point that I also like it against other creatures. Worth discussing.

It is nice to use it on the offensive, especially knocking down a goyf

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[miguelmatix]

With Brimaz around can eiganjo castle come back? Even harder to kill.

[Mr. Froggy]

When will Brimaz be released on MTGO? Is it a week after the official release?

[AggroSteve]

With Brimaz around can eiganjo castle come back? Even harder to kill.

eiganjo castle is not that bad of an idea, if i would run Brimaz i would have a total of 8 legendary creatures, which means it could be quite good.... it would even help a lot against punishing fires IMO, but thats just theory... testing will tell

[Qweerios]

If TNN is such a big deal, and Elves are a bad matchup, why not play Holy Light in the SB?

[Rock Lee]

I enjoy lurking on this forum, and can't get over how hilarious it is that the consensus is 1-0 spirit of the labrynth, and yet elves is a horrible matchup. Highly amusing.

[Barbed Blightning]

I enjoy lurking on this forum, and can't get over how hilarious it is that the consensus is 1-0 spirit of the labrynth, and yet elves is a horrible matchup. Highly amusing.

Where'd you read that?

I also wonder what Spirit does against NO/Hoof

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