IDK black seems great with Abrupt decay main, and Side Duress and deluge/ dread of night for maverick/D&T
Anyway,
I was on the fence about Vensor until a buddy of mine used it in a way I thought was awesome. He cast Vens in response to Infernal Tutor, on a land, and therefore shut of the tutor. I cheered.
Anyway, I was wondering if others can share amazing lines with him and also was wondering what other matches he's good in. I liked him in the Abrupt decay meta, and I used him to win against a bloodmoon twice. Anything else you guys can think of. I sided him in instead of bog in a lot of matches as my "meh, this is better than bog card"
Prempt: I've never had him and Karakas win me a game. I thought it would have come up by now, but then again, I only side one and only ever sided two.
On another note, I've only ever used the repeal-Top trick 3 times, thought that vintage awesomeness would have come up more too.
So yea, Vensor, anyone have anything awesome to share to explain?
Team Awesome: Busting Toilets since 2009
Meth!
I can agree with him not being a finisher, but he definitely wins games, hence win condition. Obviously he hardly ever deals lethal damage but he gets you to your fundamental turn almost instantly. Also, there's no need to explain to me how the deck works.Originally Posted by Mockingbird
Team Hammafist-We don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly."Got any trade boogas?"
After loads of testing with Spirit of the Labrynth in various decks, and two fisted testing against the deck, I concluded that this deck is STILL the best deck, but requires some revamping.
This is the list I'm testing.
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
// Spells
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [GP] Repeal
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [ON] Chain of Vapor
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [RLM] Glacial Chasm
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 4 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [BOK] Disrupting Shoal
Ponder had to get dropped in lieu of less dead-to-spirit cards. Higher tutors to compensate, more lands since less ponders, and more removal that still can generate mana and draws with candelabra and top.
Last edited by Rock Lee; 01-31-2014 at 02:09 AM.
@ Rock Lee
How has Shoal been? I find your lack of 2/3-drops disturbing.
Why have you given up on Vensor?
And has chain of vapor really been good enough in testing?
Team Awesome: Busting Toilets since 2009
Meth!
I haven't used it but Disrupting Shoal is hardcast easier than Force of Will.
Venser might as well just be another counter.
12-post Discord: https://discord.gg/QxYVg3g
Going to 3 Needle has been enough for me, with the force of wills. From DnT players I talk to, few say they're going to be running the spirit. A 1-of in the SB type of significance.
I'm also curious about the shoal Rock Lee, I heard you talking about it thurs. My bet is that it's basically mental misstep- yeah?
Essentially yes, Mental Misstep. My previous logic of Gut Shot being used for DnT, Elves, and potentially delver gets upturned with chain of vapor, which comes in against two of those, and then just straight counters can come in against elves, most of which are free to allow board advancement.
Hey,
do you imply that the red is not necessary to fight the environment with D&T quite reprented?
Indeed, infact red proved to be rather poor. They are equipped to beat red at the moment, what with UWR delver everywhere and Punishing Jund. Bonfire is a chore to cast, and has to blow them out, when it cannot always. Chain allows you to draw/accelerate and THEN bounce something, all for the cost of 1, which is incredible.
That 2 slot is where the majority of my testing has been funneled. Disrupting Shoal is ok, I have still been testing Gut Shot intermittantly, although less so now, but oddly my favored current testing card in that slot is Commandeer.
How is it mental misstep?! Doesn't it still cost 2 cards?
More looking at the turn 0 interaction, most commonly hitting a 1 drop in the build. But that was obviously too good for legacy on its own, so it costs two cards for us
Chain of Vapor is pretty decent, but narrowly awesome. Early stall against elves - but bad late. Strong against DnT - if they don't have vial going. I'm interested in the lines ppl have found.
If you want a funny, sure fire way to hose DnT (and DnT alone, sadly) run Eladamri's Vineyard. I tested it, and wowee. I was close to playing it when RUG was king. So I guess that's my safety valve for now for that deck, but right now I only seem to lose to double revoker, the rest isn't SO bad.
Why running Chain of Vapor against Snap? It also allows you to accelerate. Are the 2 untapped lands required too late against elves? Personaly in this matchup I don't like bounce spells anyway, I prefer the Glacial Chasm + counterspells plan. What about you guys?
What about carpet of flowers? Against rug mostly.
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Against rug yes Carpet is better. But right now that MU is so cake with the UG build, I hope to play it every round. Every MD card against them is gravy.
I agree with you, but I still lose to elves often. I'd like to hear player'a board plans for this.
My side has been:
4 Force of Will
4 Swan Song
4 Flusterstorm
2 Cursed Totem/2 Gut Shot/1 Venser 1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Glacial Chasm
And I put in all 15, countering every non creature spell. Needling DRS or bounce creatures. And getting chasm.
Maybe, knowing that Elves is huge in the format right now, you should just main-deck chasm. Works for me, and I usually win 2 out of three against them.
Team Awesome: Busting Toilets since 2009
Meth!
This is why I have been testing commandeer. to steal a NO or GSZ 6+ for a titan. Would gladly pay 3 cards for a titan on their turn into chasm.
Too bad Crucible of Worlds isn't in the meta more, you could gift yourself access to lands while stopping waste recursion.
Anything else you'd think to take? Plainswalkers? Helm of Obedience? Entreat the angels?
Team Awesome: Busting Toilets since 2009
Meth!
Well technically you can steal a loam... But I haven't found issue with waste recursion decks with 6 fetches, 2 islands, and the Chain of vapors as added don't-lose-to-Dark Depths protection. Also Chain of vapor provides a bad-crop rotate response if you have a top in play, draw a card, copy-sacrifice. And most wateland decks have nonland permanents.
I do quite the same except I am already maindecking Chasm. I go: -4 Repeal, -2 Expedition Map, -2 Candelabra, -3 Ponder or (-1 Ponder, -2 Pithing Needle) if I see/suspect a Viridian Shaman, +4 FOW, +4 Swan Song, +3 Flusterstorm. If I have Crop in hand and they go the Natural Order (or GSZ for lethal) route, I let it resolves and crop for Chasm in response to the attack. Generally, my life is quite high at this moment. Also I have won several times on the back of a Show And Telled Eldrazi with counter backup (without counter I will never go for it because they can just Natural Order for lethal even with an Eldrazi on your board). The Glimpse route is more painful because they will find Viridian and/or Deathrite to annihilate your Needle and/or Chasm. Sometimes it is even too late to win via S&T -> Titan because the loss off Chasm is too important. Maybe in that case, saving Snap, Chain Of Vapor or Repeal for your own Titan can give the amount of mana and PVs to reverse the situation...
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