All B/R update speculation.

[sdematt]

It's absolutely laughable that people still argue that blue would be dead if Brainstorm got banned, completely ignoring the fact that other high quality cantrips exist. It's like some people have developed a "Stockholm Syndrom", considering how Brainstorm has taken the format hostage.

Oops All Spells and Belcher might gain a few win percentages more, but they're still inconsistent piles. And since when is countermagic good against Dredge? Other decks are able to find the GY hate without Brainstorm, you know.

I thought that when people referred to banning Brainstorm, they also meant banning Ponder/PreOrdain as well. Did anyone else think this?

-Matt

[joemauer]

Well according to this poll here at the top; Sensei's Top, Gofy, and Counterbalance are more likely to see the ban hammer than Brainstorm.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

It's absolutely laughable that people still argue that blue would be dead if Brainstorm got banned, completely ignoring the fact that other high quality cantrips exist. It's like some people have developed a "Stockholm Syndrom", considering how Brainstorm has taken the format hostage.

Oops All Spells and Belcher might gain a few win percentages more, but they're still inconsistent piles. And since when is countermagic good against Dredge? Other decks are able to find the GY hate without Brainstorm, you know.

Not Stockholm syndrome, but it seems to me that you have a mild to moderate case of inflammation near the rectum, concerning Brainstorm at least, and blue as a whole at most. Some cards Are just staples in the format, and Brainstorm is. If this very powerful format is crawling up your sphincter, I recommend a good proctologist. Or a change in format.

Edit: forgive my lippy post, but your recent constant bitching has my patience wearing very thin, and you think very highly of your own opinions and very little of others. It feels like you take blue's current dominance of the format personally. Its like you were a Survival player or something...

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Lemnear]

TES can easily shrug off losing Brainstorm

Not being able to trade Gas for protection within a Brainstorm (and Vice versa) turns the deck into a bad belcher.dec where your starting grip dictates if you go the control Route in a game or throw your hand on the forehead of your opponent. Switching your gameplan within a single card cast is pretty much the reason to play storm over combos like Belcher.

[Arsenal]

I thought that when people referred to banning Brainstorm, they also meant banning Ponder/PreOrdain as well. Did anyone else think this?

-Matt

I did not. Based off many posts in the last few pages, I thought just Brainstorm would get the hypothetical axe.

[Looooooooo]

I did not. Based off many posts in the last few pages, I thought just Brainstorm would get the hypothetical axe.

Why ban a card when you have just printed its hoser card?
(and IMHO why ban this card in first place?)

- L

[Arsenal]

Why ban a card when you have just printed its hoser card?
(and IMHO why ban this card in first place?)

- L

Because the fact that answers exist for a card doesn't mean the card is unbanworthy.

Also, I like Spirit of the Labyrinth, but even I recognize it's fairly narrow and won't see wide spread play as a result.

[testing32]

Why ban a card when you have just printed its hoser card?
(and IMHO why ban this card in first place?)

- L

When Jace was legal in standard they printed hex parasite then pyrexian revoker and then promptly banned Jace. This new hatebear is nowhere near good enough. It needs flash.

They aren't going to ban brainstorm but they should.

Edit - Combo would take a massive hit if BS gets the axe. Show and Tell not being able to shuffle away redundant fatties is a big deal.

[Arsenal]

I've read countless times from people that because there is an answer to Card X, Card X should remain legal.

I've never understood this logic. Every card on the Banned list has dozens, if not hundreds, of answers to it. The mere existence of answers doesn't mean the card is okay for the format... why do people not understand this?

[nedleeds]

I didn't cry for a brainstorm ban, I just stated that compared to some of the cards currently on the list it's far more powerful, ubiquitous and versatile. For the millionth time I'd like to see some stuff come off. Look at Metalworker, Grim Monolith, Land Tax ... unbanning Earthcraft, Mind Twist, SotF and Black Vise would have similar results. some nice niche strategies but nothing close to the power level of Brainstorm.

It's a toss up, I say losing Brainstorm hurts the 2 card derp combo decks the most. I say that because most are redundant and don't want 2 of card A or B. They want a Show and Tell and an Emrakul. Brainstorm is the best non-power card ever printed at fixing that situation. Storm can utilize a mass of just about everything but maybe more cantrips, duress effects. But what storm doesn't want is a land glut, and Brainstorm with a fetch is an abusurdly cheap efficient answer to that. Brainstorm also helps combo fight targeted discard far more than ponder/preordain. Combo would be hurt the most.

Control really just means miracles, counterbalance and losing Brainstorm would be a problem but they aren't exactly looking to win on turn 3. They want to hit their first 4-5 land drops, preordain and ponder work fairly well for that, but tapping out is bad. There's still top to setup miracles but now you can't just toss the opening hand terminus on your library for U.

18 land 4 / wasteland 3 color decks might actually have to play fair mana bases.

SFM gets a kick in the nuts as you can't just re-hide your skull if your SFM gets nuked.

If it did get banned as it deserves to based on power level, ubiquity, and comparison with some of the clunkers on the list I wouldn't shed a tear. It would be fun to watch the lemmings wear their index finger to the bone hitting F5 on SCG waiting for their heroes to instruct them how to play legacy without the savage crutch that is brainstorm.

[sdematt]

I'm still posing this question to folks: If Golgari Charm, Liliana, and E. Plague did not exist as cards, would TNN be bannable in the eyes of the people that think it's okay currently?

-Matt

[testing32]

No BS 2 weeks b/f a legacy GP would be sweet.

I'm still posing this question to folks: If Golgari Charm, Liliana, and E. Plague did not exist as cards, would TNN be bannable in the eyes of the people that think it's okay currently?

-Matt

And if there was no artifact destruction we would need to ban batterskull. And if there were no counter spells we would ban dark ritual. What is your point?

[nedleeds]

No. I don't think so. Every color has answers to it, and there are half a dozen artifact answers. People are just crying that their 15 year old removal suite of Swords / Bolt / Decay don't work.

[Shawon]

I'm still posing this question to folks: If Golgari Charm, Liliana, and E. Plague did not exist as cards, would TNN be bannable in the eyes of the people that think it's okay currently?

-Matt

I would still answer yes. Golgari Charm isn't enough to beat TNN if The Nemesis is already equipped. Having access to 3 mana answers against a 3-mana arguably bannable card doesn't mitigate the issue.

EDIT: I wish Void was two mana cheaper. I love that card.

[mini1337s]

No. I don't think so. Every color has answers to it, and there are half a dozen artifact answers. People are just crying that their 15 year old removal suite of Swords / Bolt / Decay don't work.

My opponents tears fill my Moat. Pretty hilarious when a Merfolk's biggest obstacle is the Moat itself.

[Megadeus]

I would still answer yes. Golgari Charm isn't enough to beat TNN if The Nemesis is already equipped. Having access to 3 mana answers against a 3-mana arguably bannable card doesn't mitigate the issue.

EDIT: I wish Void was two mana cheaper. I love that card.

Need a 2 mana cheaper Void?


http://magiccards.info/query?q=Arcan...v=card&s=cname


We broke the format

[Shawon]

Need a 2 mana cheaper Void?


http://magiccards.info/query?q=Arcan...v=card&s=cname


We broke the format

Too late :p

True-Name's getting banned on Monday. I'm going to wager on it with a few friends tonight.

[testing32]

I wish Void was two mana cheaper. I love that card.

That card would be sweet and probably a lot of fun. Make it cost BBR.

[nedleeds]

My opponents tears fill my Moat. Pretty hilarious when a Merfolk's biggest obstacle is the Moat itself.

that is ironic ... white has 1/2 a dozen ways, black has a billion, green can't remove creatures period outside of bee stinging them, blue can counter it bounce it or ignore it, red has a billion damage can't be prevented effects and 12 assorted blasts. Again people are just sore that the 3 most efficient removal spells that they cram in every deck don't work against it.

TNN is powerful, and it's miserable to lose against if you can't find or resolve an answer but it's no worse than getting a Griselbrand reanimated, an Omniscience Show and Telled, getting run game one vs. Dredge, being locked out from counterbalance, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

[[SLAYER]chaos]

^That playmat is awesome!