[Deck] Sneak and Show

[blindspotxxx]

How do you guys suppose we battle Death and Taxes with the new spirit around? It seems rough on our part

[jimmythegreek]

How do you guys suppose we battle Death and Taxes with the new spirit around? It seems rough on our part

Maybe pyroclasm. On another note I have this deck maybe thirty percent built (snt is not a cheap deck imho), theres no real threat that with the ban announcements show and tell will be on that list, right? Still I think I might wait till monday to pick up my snt's

[Valtrix]

Izzet Charm is actually not a completely awful answer as well.

[GoblinZ]

If dnt began to dominate the meta, I might consider SNT into progenitus again...

[JPA]

Progenitus and Massacre Wurm are good anwers. Increasing the number of Pyroclasm would help as well. The matchup seems fine to me post-board, pre-board we often get locked out via Revoker + Karakas; main deck Progenitus can break that lock, but I would only play that if your metagame is at least 20 % Death and Taxes.

[SecondSunrise]

Hello everyone! I'll be going to GP Paris next month and am strongly considering to play this deck.

When I started testing, I just took Brad Nelson's T16 List from the last SCGO. However, building a SB seems difficult to me. For reference, here's Brad's SB:

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Swan Song
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Through the Breach

I'd like to fit one or two pyroclasms somewhere, but I have no idea what to cut... talking about cutting, can someone explain the reasoning behind Through the Breach? 5 Mana seems like an awful lot, especially against Death and Taxes with their Thalias and whatnot....

[Technicolor Mage]

Hello everyone! I'll be going to GP Paris next month and am strongly considering to play this deck.

When I started testing, I just took Brad Nelson's T16 List from the last SCGO. However, building a SB seems difficult to me. For reference, here's Brad's SB:

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Swan Song
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Through the Breach

I'd like to fit one or two pyroclasms somewhere, but I have no idea what to cut... talking about cutting, can someone explain the reasoning behind Through the Breach? 5 Mana seems like an awful lot, especially against Death and Taxes with their Thalias and whatnot....

I am not running any Leyline of Sanctity, I find it very clunky

[apple713]

Hello everyone! I'll be going to GP Paris next month and am strongly considering to play this deck.

When I started testing, I just took Brad Nelson's T16 List from the last SCGO. However, building a SB seems difficult to me. For reference, here's Brad's SB:

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Swan Song
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Through the Breach

I'd like to fit one or two pyroclasms somewhere, but I have no idea what to cut... talking about cutting, can someone explain the reasoning behind Through the Breach? 5 Mana seems like an awful lot, especially against Death and Taxes with their Thalias and whatnot....

you have 4 open slots in your sideboard...leyline of sanctity does not fix any of the problems this deck experiences.

[Phoenix13]

Wouldn't Sulfur Elemental be good against Death and Taxes?

[JPA]

Wouldn't Sulfur Elemental be good against Death and Taxes?

Right, forgot that one.

you have 4 open slots in your sideboard...leyline of sanctity does not fix any of the problems this deck experiences.

It does make the Storm- and discard-matchups much easier... if you have it. Since there are more times you don't have one Leyline in your opening 7 than you having one, I don't like the idea of adding additional clunk to the deck.

Hello everyone! I'll be going to GP Paris next month and am strongly considering to play this deck.

When I started testing, I just took Brad Nelson's T16 List from the last SCGO. However, building a SB seems difficult to me. For reference, here's Brad's SB:

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Swan Song
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Through the Breach

I'd like to fit one or two pyroclasms somewhere, but I have no idea what to cut... talking about cutting, can someone explain the reasoning behind Through the Breach? 5 Mana seems like an awful lot, especially against Death and Taxes with their Thalias and whatnot....

Through the Breach costs just as much as Sneak Attack + activation; with instead of even! It's really important for matchups where you either need a replacement for Show and Tell (for example in the mirror) or additional threats (vs decks where you know they bring in Surgical Extraction).
Against Thalia-decks, it costs you 6, which is still reasonable with 5 sol-lands and 4 Lotus Petal.

If you don't like Through the Breach, Vendilion Clique is a good alternative. It acts as another win condition and can make the coast clear for your Show and Tell.

I would definitely try to fit in some amount of Pyroclasm in your sideboard. Death and Taxes and decks around Delver of Secrets / Meddling Mage are far more popular right now than dedicated discard-strategies like Jund or Shardless BUG.

[SecondSunrise]

Thanks to the suggestions! Eliminating the Leyline and cutting Echoin Truth, with which many of you seem to be unhappy, I arrive at this SB:

2 Garfdiggers Cage
2 Defense Grid
2 Blood Moon
2 Through the Breach
2 Swan Song
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Wipe Away

Which seems very reasonable all around. Maybe Ill cut 1 Swan Song or REB for the 3rd Grafdiggers Cage or Pyroclasm, depending what decks I see in the last chance Friday Trials. I still find it pretty hard to board out the right cards and not to board so much that it hinders me... but i expect that to come with some more playtesting.

[apple713]

Thanks to the suggestions! Eliminating the Leyline and cutting Echoin Truth, with which many of you seem to be unhappy, I arrive at this SB:

2 Garfdiggers Cage
2 Defense Grid
2 Blood Moon
2 Through the Breach
2 Swan Song
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Wipe Away

Which seems very reasonable all around. Maybe Ill cut 1 Swan Song or REB for the 3rd Grafdiggers Cage or Pyroclasm, depending what decks I see in the last chance Friday Trials. I still find it pretty hard to board out the right cards and not to board so much that it hinders me... but i expect that to come with some more playtesting.

This looks good. It looks like all the other accepted sideboards for this deck. This deck is towards thr end of its life cycle in the sense that there are going to be few if any changes to the sb and main deck. The main deck has a few flex spots people adjust for thier meta and the sb is the same way.

There isnt much else to be discussed on this forum since everything is widely accepted and agreed upon. Jpa made an excellent write up and there really isnt more to know about the deck

[AnziD]

There isnt much else to be discussed on this forum since everything is widely accepted and agreed upon. Jpa made an excellent write up and there really isnt more to know about the deck

That's not necessarily true. I think we should discuss Izzet Charm a bit more. I was thinking of the following as the 9 flex slots:

1 Misdirection
2 Spell Pierce
2 Izzet Charm
4 Draw Spells (atm 2 Preordain/2 Gitaxian Probe)

It seems that Izzet Charm does everything we want - counterspell, removes threats (like Meddling Mage), accelerates via looting. The only thing I'm not fond of is how it will affect the mana base and, of course, that it is a whole R more expensive than Spell Pierce. Thoughts?

Also, the next step for the the primer is to create different sample lists for different metas (if I'm expecting the meta to be Delver-heavy, play decklist A; if expecting Combo-heavy, play decklist B; etc, etc). Not that its necessary, but it would definitely be the finer polishing to an already amazing document.

[rockout]

I feel like people get confused on what this deck tries to do. You try to be too cute and make the deck less stream lined and able to force your game plan on your opponent. If you don't know it already, you are trying to put your mother fucking balls on the goddam table and force your opponent to gag on your shit. Why play defensive cards like izzet charm that cost two mana or leyline of sanctity that is god terrible defense if it isn't in your opening hand game 2. Are you going to throw back the god hand on the play game 2 because you might get disrupted by a single discard spell? God I hope not.

Sneak and Show aka. How big are your balls to just go for it t2 against daze.dec when he mulls to six game 2 on the play.

Also, this post is brought to you by alcohol consumption.

[apple713]

That's not necessarily true. I think we should discuss Izzet Charm a bit more. I was thinking of the following as the 9 flex slots:

1 Misdirection
2 Spell Pierce
2 Izzet Charm
4 Draw Spells (atm 2 Preordain/2 Gitaxian Probe)

It seems that Izzet Charm does everything we want - counterspell, removes threats (like Meddling Mage), accelerates via looting. The only thing I'm not fond of is how it will affect the mana base and, of course, that it is a whole R more expensive than Spell Pierce. Thoughts?

Also, the next step for the the primer is to create different sample lists for different metas (if I'm expecting the meta to be Delver-heavy, play decklist A; if expecting Combo-heavy, play decklist B; etc, etc). Not that its necessary, but it would definitely be the finer polishing to an already amazing document.

izzet charm is cute. Its good for modern. 1 extra mana in legacy is winning and losing. Playable and not playable. Imagine if JTMS cost 5, or Dark confidant cost 3. what if sneak attack cost 5 to cast and 1 to activate... would this deck even be where it is today? Spell pierce is too good to give up for something more expensive. If you find yourself digging more its possible that you need to play with SDT, or mulligan more.

the additions to the primer would be minimal. JPA could probably do it no problem if you ask nicely.

I feel like people get confused on what this deck tries to do. You try to be too cute and make the deck less stream lined and able to force your game plan on your opponent. If you don't know it already, you are trying to put your mother fucking balls on the goddam table and force your opponent to gag on your shit. Why play defensive cards like izzet charm that cost two mana or leyline of sanctity that is god terrible defense if it isn't in your opening hand game 2. Are you going to throw back the god hand on the play game 2 because you might get disrupted by a single discard spell? God I hope not.

Sneak and Show aka. How big are your balls to just go for it t2 against daze.dec when he mulls to six game 2 on the play.

Also, this post is brought to you by alcohol consumption.

Sounds like the alcohol is speaking the TROOF tonight!

[Lans89]

I Think he also considers Izzet Charm because of the new Spirit? And this deck is so clunky that the draw ability isn't bad either.. But still I think Pierce will be worth its place more!

[blindspotxxx]

Yeah I guess Sulfur Elementals will make it to my sideboard with Pyroclasm :)

[FTW]

How do you guys suppose we battle Death and Taxes with the new spirit around? It seems rough on our part

Punishing SneakShow

Run fewer cantrips but run Intutions main. SB into 1 Burnwillows+1 PFire+1 Loam.
Intuition into that and burn out all their dorks to clear the way, then sculpt the godhand and go off.

[JPA]

Punishing SneakShow

Run fewer cantrips but run Intutions main. SB into 1 Burnwillows+1 PFire+1 Loam.
Intuition into that and burn out all their dorks to clear the way, then sculpt the godhand and go off.

This seems REALLY bad... How are you gonna cast Loam if that's what they give you with Intuition? Why would you play clunky slow spot removal when you have access to Pyroclasm?

[FTW]

This seems REALLY bad... How are you gonna cast Loam if that's what they give you with Intuition? Why would you play clunky slow spot removal when you have access to Pyroclasm?

Because it's fun to add "Punishing" to deck titles.

I do think that increasing the number of MD Intuitions in the flex slots should help add stability (both for finding combo and Pyroclasms). IMO 2 Pyroclasms in the board aren't going to cut it. You're going to need it exactly those times that you can't cantrip into it, so how do you reliably have it as an answer? But maybe 3 copies, searchable with Intuition...