@SpeedOfDark & Tao
I'm a bit embarrassed to admit it but I couldn't stop thinking of the deck, it looks very promising to me. Here is how I would probably start out playing it (lacking a Savannah, a Verdant Catacombs and probably the Thoughtseizes, that's why):
Maindeck: (61)
Creatures: (15)
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Academy Rector (replacing a Deed)
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Strangleroot Geist
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Acidic Slime
1 Gaddock Teeg
Sorceries: (13)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
Instants: (2)
2 Abrupt Decay
Enchantments: (4)
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Pernicious Deed
Artifacts: (5)
2 Batterskull
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalkers: (1)
1 Liliana of the Veil
Lands: 21
4 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Sideboard:
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Moat
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 2 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Nether Void
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 1 Rest in Peace
A couple of spots need consideration. The Strangleroot doesn't really seem necessary. I changed one into a Liliana, will try one Strangleroot and then perhaps switch to a second Liliana. Acidic Slime could be a Primeval Titan too, but hopefully Sigarda is enough (with plenty of Batterskull backup) and some land destruction feels good.
The sideboard looks promising too, since the maindeck already has sweepers and extra discard there is a lot of room to play around. Just put something together.
Tao, I don't know how often you frequent this thread, but if you see this, I'm wondering why the punishing fire nic fit list in the opening post has 61 cards. I'm playing pretty much the same list but I don't know what card to cut to make it 60 to fit in the third liliana. I've heard people defend having a 61st card but its something I'm not used to and would like to keep it to 60. I made a few changes from that list in the sideboard, mostly putting in 2 sakura tribe elders in there for one sided ramp against jace decks. So far I've liked it better then carpet of flowers. Whenever I play carpet my opponent starts to fetch a bunch of non-islands and I often end up deeding it away anyway at some point so I'm not impressed with the card. Tribe elder seems better than sylvan ranger.
Unless I am counting wrong the list has exactly 60 cards. I am also on the side of always playing 60 cards because I think it is an easy optimization.
Playing Tribe-Elder over Sylvan Ranger is fine. I prefer the admittedly very small 2 for 1 over the ramp but it is really not a big difference. If you have more SB space that you use to fight Miracle decks or control-oriented Stoneblade in your meta I would suggest maybe a second Thrun. He is a nice GSZ target but he is even better (because of being one turn faster and uncounterable) when you draw him naturally.
I had the same experiences with Carpet of Flowers. It is insane in theory but in actual testing it was usually mediocre (except against Canadian where it is the best card available). Opponents playing around it or me being forced to kill it with Deed happened far more often than I expected so I cut it.
Hey all,
I'm looking for a new deck, and Nic Fit has interested me for a while. I'm working on the two following lists (both basically netdecked):
Junk Fit:
1 Deranged Hermit
2 Eternal Witness
1 Grave Titan
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wickerbough Elder
Creatures [16]
2 Liliana of the Veil
Planeswalkers [2]
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Thoughtseize
Spells [21]
3 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Forest
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Windswept Heath
Lands [21]
Pros: Better top end, more easy GSZ targets, dryad arbor
or
Jund Fit:
1 Broodmate Dragon
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wickerbough Elder
Creatures [14]
2 Liliana of the Veil
Planeswalkers [2]
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Punishing Fire
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Thoughtseize
Spells [25]
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
2 Forest (246)
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Mountain (242)
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Swamp (238)
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
Lands [19]
Pros: Punishing Fire combo (makes Liliana +1 less painful too), Huntmaster, Innocent Blood for opposing fatties
With all the Mystics and Delvers in the current meta, I think that Jund might be a safer pick. However, going over the top with Titans also seems like a good way to outclass those shrimps.
Thoughts/opinions?
@pettdan & @Tao:
1. Diabolic intent seems interesting. Not sure if its what I want, but if it fits in any build its definitely a creature heavy one like this, so I will probably have to try it.
2. I have singleton fleshbag and shreikmaw in the list because of a few cute interactions, namely:
- shreikmaw/fleshbag + volrath = recurring removal
- fleshbag + explorer/geist/finks = edict + utility + extra body (also fleshbag is excellent vs TNN and show and tell)
- shreikmaw is usually evoked as a terror, but can also easily be hardcast as a (usually) unblockable threat for 5 mana.
Although to be honest, these are kind of pet cards of mine so I may be overvaluing them.
I think I will probably try this configuration first:
-1 shreikmaw
-1 fleshbag
-1 finks
-1 grave titan
+1 abrupt decay
+1 recurring nightmare
+1 top
+1 primeval titan
3. For sideboard, I think I'll try something like this (work in progress):
1 Deathrite Shaman
3 Gaddock Teeg
1 Headhunter
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Abrupt Decay
I have 5 thoughtseize, but 4 are being used by a friend and I have no liliana's. If I can borrow some of these, I will make these changes:
-1 headhunter
-1 gaddock teeg
-1 inquisition of kozilek
+2 liliana
+1 thoughtseize
Just for discussion's sake, this is another spicy Nic Fit list I was messing with (still in brainstorming stage):
---creatures---
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
---artifacts---
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Argentum Armor
---discard---
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
---other spells---
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Bitterblossom
2 Lingering Souls
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
---lands---
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains
In this list the argentum armor plays the role of finisher instead of a titan. With so many creatures and creature token generators, any equipment should really be able to help you end a game, but the argentum is the one that screams "deal with me now, or I'm gonna mess you up to the point of no return."
So I saw a really interesting list in the Legacy Daily event from Saturday and was wondering if anyone else was working with Blue or if that's a discussion for another thread?
Link? I'm running a classic BG Nic Fit with a "splash" of U for Brainstorm and Jace 2.0.Originally Posted by HSCK
Also, as far as Carpet of Flowers is concerned, would Search for Tomorrow be an acceptable substitute?
List is here, from Fizzeler, 3-1:
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digita.../tourn/6683869
For blue in general Birthing Pod is very popular at the moment because blue gives you Baleful Strix, Phantasmal Image and Glen Elendra Archmage that go well with it.
For Non-Pod blue I tested a lot with Jace BUG. Blue gives you Jace and Brainstorm as extremely strong cards. Both cards fit the deck very well. Brainstorm is powerful in general and in Nic Fit the filtering is even stronger because the deck plays situational cards like Deed, Decay, Therapy and Explorer. Jace is imo the best "big" spell available for Nic Fit in all colors.
About the list I don't like that he plays Coiling Oracle. It seems not good enough in general, but it looks just bad when you have Baleful Strix as an alternative (and he runs only 1 more green than black mana so that's no reason for Oracle either). I would also like to see more removal, just 2 Decays and 1 Deed seems like too little. Edric and Damia both look awful.
In your opinion as a long-time NicFit player, is it worth going BUG without Pod? I dislike how you have to run a bunch of marginal creatures to start getting value out of 'Pod. I'm of a mind to run more removal (3 Decay / 2 Deed minimum) and top out with planeswalkers instead. Like you said, Brainstorm is really valuable in this kind of deck, and Jace is an excellent finisher when paired with board control in Deed. Not that it hasn't been done before.
So my question is: Is Pod really the best version of BUG?
you can GSZ for either a card or a land drop with oracle
This is my final list of Junk Pod.
Lands [22]
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
Creatures [22]
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Voice of Resurgence
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Restoration Angel
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Spells [16]
3 Birthing Pod
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Dryad Arbor count as a land but it is a "cmc 1" 1/1. So 22 lands (7 basics, a lot of fetchs) with 4 GSZ, 3 DRS, 4 Veteran Explorer would help me for explosives starts. My last cut (the 61 card) was Scavenging Ooze, since DRS can do a similar Job were Ooze is a MVP and move it to the SB.
On my CMC2, SFM package helps me out against tempo and this deck list has good carriers like sigarda, restoration angel and thrun. Voice of Resurgence is still on test, but has shown a good perfomance making opponents playing around its hability and is a nice trade for Pod. Teeg + 4 GSZ gives me a chance against combo.
CMC3... I truly believe Kitchen finks is my weakest card on the deck... but persist is a very good mechaninc with pod and doesnt make me to fetch a witness or harmonic when I do not have to... Harmonic Sliver used to be a Qasali, but it used the same amount of mana with GSZ (2G + 1 against 3G and keep a body for trade).
CMC4... Linvala being a 3/4 and a cmc4 has made a lot of progress to dodge decay and bolts... still getting Plow'd but nothing I can do about it... it shut down Mother of ruins, SFM, and specially... opposing DRS. Thrun is another beater good with equipments... sorry he doesnt have evasion but still pretty strong. Restoration Angel (also a 3/4 CMC4) can take down PWs, is another good carrier and does a lot of combat tricks...
CMC5... I cut off Grave titan since he can get plow'd and has no evasion on this TNN infested metagame... so I put back Sigarda making my curve lower and another flyer beater good with equipments... finally, thragtusk and shriekmaw are just value cards... baits for removal and good restoration angel targets.
Spells....
I like to keep it simple... I used to play BGx Nic Fit with Pernicious deed, Recurring Nightmare, Diabolic Intent, Swords to Plowshares etc... but I was just tired of my Tempo MU with pierce, daze, fow, stifle meanwhile I was getting beat by goyf, delver, stalkers, etc.... I just love decay and dont like to ask permisson... 4 Cabal Therapy (Core engine) some equipments and 4 GSZ to make it consistently...
Birthing Pod is hard to deal with since its a 4 drop and can make any bad top deck into a good one.... trading a veteran explorer into SFM is just nuts... then put a Bskull, trade SFM for finks and keep going... I like it a lot.
Has anyone here tried Spike feeder + Archangel of Thune combo? Im thinking cutting off Kitchen finks for Feeder and just put an Archangel... it has sinergy with DRS, Jitte, Bskull and thragtusk... so its not bad on its own....
I would be more than glad to receive any constructive comentary or advice.
You have about 30% chance to hit the land with Oracle so you can't count it as a mana target for GSZ. Damia seems bad in almost every matchup. Against agressive decks and combo she is too expensive and against UW control decks she will just get Sworded. The only matchups in which she has some potential are Jund and Shardless but I doubt that she is worth it. Edric might be a viable choice against Combo but against everything else he will almost never trigger.
I think BUG without Pod is worth it. I would run 3 Decay / 3 Deed minimum. I personally would run 4 Jace TMS because he is a key card and if he resolves and survies you can use his ability to shuffle him away (and if he doesn't, then you are glad to have more copies of him).
I'll explain, the only reason I was running Oracle was because I could GSZ for it, and its Draw effect sometimes ramps you, but mainly that I can GSZ for it if needed. Damia can be any number of 5-7 Drops that you can GSZ for and win the game just tested her because the spot is flexible. That said I was able to cast her vs several aggressive decks and also blow up deed for 8
Edric overperformed he on average draws around 2-4 cards per game and gives your opponent the "kill this or lose" scenario, if they kill it, that is one less removal spell pointed towards my higher CMC threats
Currently Playing:
Dredge, The Rock, Lands, Spiral Tide, Affinity
So I've decided to buy into Legacy with this deck, I just want to make sure the list is as good as I can get it. Here's what I have:
Creatures [18]:
1 Academy Rector
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Primeval Titan
1 Restoration Angel
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Tragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
Enchantments [5]
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Rule of Law
Planeswalkers [1]
1 Garruk Relentless
Instants/Sorceries [15]
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Diabolic Intent
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Lingering Souls
Lands [21]
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Choke
2 Golgari Charm
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
I've been thinking about finding a way to fit Thurn into it, been thinking about cutting kitchen finks for it but I like having good resto angel targets. I also don't know how viable a maindeck Rule of Law is. I wanna help my game 1s against combo as much as possible though. Input is appreciated.
I like this deck.
You can test it, but I think Arianrhod tested it a while back and didn't like it. I don't think you'll have enough creatures out at one time for it to be useful.Voice of Resurgence is still on test, but has shown a good perfomance making opponents playing around its hability and is a nice trade for Pod.
The only problem I can see with this is having trouble actually winning. Junk lists usually play sigarda and 6-drops.CMC5... I cut off Grave titan since he can get plow'd and has no evasion on this TNN infested metagame... so I put back Sigarda making my curve lower and another flyer beater good with equipments... finally, thragtusk and shriekmaw are just value cards... baits for removal and good restoration angel targets.
Yes, the combo is quite useful. I agree with you that the pieces are also useful without the combo. But cutting kitchen finks is probably not a good idea since it's a value creature and great against aggro and tempo. You need a lot of creatures to pod out of as well, and kitchen finks is great for that.Has anyone here tried Spike feeder + Archangel of Thune combo? Im thinking cutting off Kitchen finks for Feeder and just put an Archangel... it has sinergy with DRS, Jitte, Bskull and thragtusk... so its not bad on its own....
Using meta info from mtgtop8.com, I calculated that the average legacy deck has about 6.4 maindeck cards that draw cards. I think Tao is right about Spirit of the Labyrinth: it is quite maindeckable and powerful (especially vs. combo).
Judging by the results from the Maverick forum, SotL has been very underwhelming in actual testing. It has a huge target on its head, and can't attack without equipment if the opponent has any creature in play. Basically, 1 toughness bites.
However, this is not Maverick. I think SotL would more likely to survive in a Nic Fit deck, due to all the discard. On the other hand, it really is more of a prison/tax card which doesn't fit the general Nic Fit plan of dropping fatties.
its probably more of a sideboad card than a main deck card.
Imo SotL is a pure SB card for Nic Fit. This is pure theorycrafting but I think there are two reasons why it works better in Nic Fit than in Maverick, at least against Combo decks.
The first is that we often don't have a clock at all while Maverick usually starts with something like Hierarch into Thalia and has a clock anyway. So in the combo matchup this is a big improvement for us while it is just another bear for Maverick.
The second reason is that we use Discard while Maverick uses other Hatebears and Wastelands. Cantrips like Brainstorm are good but they get even better after our Therapy/Thoughtseize Discard because they help the opponent find the taken pieces again. But they are less good than usual when that cantrip gets taxed by Thalia, double Wasteland and/or stuff like Canonist or Mindcensor.
Imo it's a good thing if you spirit gets killed. Nic fit has a lot of big bombs that need answers, and having your opponent waste a swords on your spirit is helpful. Bolt is a different story, but it isn't dead or anything against the rest of our deck.
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