[Deck] 12 Post

[203995014]

Is there ever a time where it is correct to Show and Tell an eldrazi vs. a deck that isn't pox or loam? I have had times when I was playing and somewhere along the way I happened to have Show and Tell and some eldrazi in my hand.

[That nice guy]

Is there ever a time where it is correct to Show and Tell an eldrazi vs. a deck that isn't pox or loam? I have had times when I was playing and somewhere along the way I happened to have Show and Tell and some eldrazi in my hand.

Just think about what colors you opponent is playing, and therefore, what removal. Against Merfolk and RUG decks send in the Eldrazi. But be weary of any deck that can use Lily, Jace, Karakas, ect to ruin your day.

[Rock Lee]

Just think about what colors you opponent is playing, and therefore, what removal. Against Merfolk and RUG decks send in the Eldrazi. But be weary of any deck that can use Lily, Jace, Karakas, ect to ruin your day.

Or more appropriately, have their removal needled if possible. I have won games this way, but in NO way is it every my plan A, B, C, or D. It is significantly further down the alphabet. more P/O/N

[apple713]

Yes. check mtgpulse.com for decklists. Most recent ones do not have Candles.

EDIT: Also, I went 23-2-1 in the last 6 weeks w/ this deck w/ 0 candles.

have you stopped playing miracles?

[Rock Lee]

Or more appropriately, have their removal needled if possible. I have won games this way, but in NO way is it every my plan A, B, C, or D. It is significantly further down the alphabet. more P/O/N

I did show & tell a Glen Elendra Archmage today however. Assuming the Show would get countered. Could've lost that game. But ner.

[Zotmaster]

Is there ever a time where it is correct to Show and Tell an eldrazi vs. a deck that isn't pox or loam? I have had times when I was playing and somewhere along the way I happened to have Show and Tell and some eldrazi in my hand.

I just did against Death & Taxes yesterday and it won me the game.

Speaking of which, first time playing the RUG list and played some weird decks. 2-0 versus BUG something or other (had Lilly, Jace and Loam, but I'm really not sure what his end game was), 0-2 versus High Tide, 0-2 versus Oops all Spells (I outsmarted myself and punted the second game), 2-1 versus Death & Taxes, 1-2 versus Tin Fins.

The situation I am referring to, the D&T player had a Mother of Runes, a Phyrexian Revoker on Sensei's Divining Top, an Aether Vial, and an Aven Mindcensor. He only had a single card in hand, so I went for Show and Tell. Because of the Mindcensor, I decided to Show in Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre instead of Primeval Titan. Whatever he had in his hand, it couldn't deal with Ulamog, and I won a couple turns later.

[TimHarding]

I did show & tell a Glen Elendra Archmage today however. Assuming the Show would get countered. Could've lost that game. But ner.

Yeah ill rifle off a SnT anytime against anything blue. Unless they have high pressure on you the penalty is low if you put in something crap. I've been showing in cloudposts from time to time when I'm on the ramp>map>eye path.

[sauce]

have you stopped playing miracles?

yes, that's what this implies ^^ :)

[Rock Lee]

Version I've been tinkering with:

// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [RLM] Glacial Chasm

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [GP] Repeal
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
3 [LRW] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 4 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 3 [CS] Commandeer
SB: 2 [EVE] Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap

Unsure about MBT versus Flusterstorm in the side. Trying to find a logical resolution of Commandeer/Glen Elendra with the other free/cheap counters of Swansong/Fluster. Still considering Disrupting Shoal, at which point I would go back to Flusterstorms over commandeer/MBT.

[203995014]

I usually prefer Flusterstorm because it's good as a general purpose counter vs. decks with a plan similar to Pox. Mindbreak Trap on the other hand it's only really relevant vs. Storm or combo decks that cast multiple spells in a turn and it will counter an uncounterable spell if you're lucky.

Then again maybe I'm just boarding wrong.

Why Chain of Vapor over Snap?

[Mockingbird]

Why Chain of Vapor over Snap?

versus
Target non-land vs. target creature

And... we can win out if the opponent decides to start a sac land war.

It's a utility issue.

[Rock Lee]

versus
Target non-land vs. target creature

And... we can win out if the opponent decides to start a sac land war.

It's a utility issue.

You combo with candelabra, or top, and can bounce lilly/Vial. All things Snap doesn't do.

[Davek]

Hey guys, with all this hype about Depths.deck i've found that recurring wastelands are getting more and more common, so i'm happy to keep needles maindeck. I'm also convinced that the newest hatebear, SoL, will soon receive the attention it really merits. I mean, it cripples the 90% of the tier deck in the meta, why should it be considered a sb card? For this reason i've dropped the Ponder plan (and i'm glad i did, it doesn't really fit my playstyle). Taking ideas here and there and adding my own distorted cerebral waves, i've come to this:

// Lands
2 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Island
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cavern of Souls

// Creatures
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Trinket Mage

// Spells
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
4 Show and Tell
3 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle

The sb is the thing i'm less sure about, but whatever...

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 4 Swan Song
SB: 3 Extract
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 All is Dust
SB: 1 Venser, Shaper Savant

Extract: i was tired to play defensively against ANT (TES is not represented in my area and i feel that overall is a worse deck) so having a "turn1 i win button" is amazing, it's really a 1-card combo vs them. Ops, i've just exiled your only winning condition from your deck! Comes in handy against omnitell too, removing their lonely Emrakul.

Engineered Explosives: again, with Lands on the rise it's easier to face Chalice of the void too, and this is a nice thing i can tutor with Trinket Mages to solve the problem long enough to drop my artifacts, play my bs and set the board to beat them soundly. It's pretty handy against Delver deck, in particular UWR, where you can blow flying insects and overgrown germs setting it at 0.

Swan Song/Flusterstorm: counterspells for combo matchups mainly. I think i side them in pretty rarely compared to the most of you, i use them only if i really see something that can combo me out, or is impacting like Blood Moon/Price of Progress.

All is Dust/Submerge: Team America/BUG Delver/Elves are on the rise too, so packing sweepers isn't a bad thing. All is Dust is MUCH better than Oblivion Stone in my opinion, Abrupt Decay is a thing in all these matchups and i prefere something that doesn't blow my precious artifacts together with all the rest. All is dust really owns Deathblade and Esperblade too.

Venser, Shaper Savant: he's here for Omnitell, Sneak&Show, Reanimator, UW Miracle. Nothing special, but he helped me many times, so i trust him.

Please let me know what you think!

[Seirei]

Hi guys,

so why exactly are cards like Horn of Greed, Retraced Image or Summer Bloom ruled out in this deck?

I've searched the thread and saw that these cards were at least mentioned, but nobody gave any reason why they could be worse than other cards we have in here.

Could anyone enlighten me on this?

[moseby]

I have been playing 12 post for the last couple of years but with the resurgence of waste/loam. I have been trying out rectum-tell again for the next little bit.
I do not like trying to fight recurring wastes

[203995014]

Hi guys,

so why exactly are cards like Horn of Greed, Retraced Image or Summer Bloom ruled out in this deck?

I've searched the thread and saw that these cards were at least mentioned, but nobody gave any reason why they could be worse than other cards we have in here.

Could anyone enlighten me on this?

Short answer is this is a control deck, not a ramp deck.

[Zotmaster]

Hi guys,

so why exactly are cards like Horn of Greed, Retraced Image or Summer Bloom ruled out in this deck?

I've searched the thread and saw that these cards were at least mentioned, but nobody gave any reason why they could be worse than other cards we have in here.

Could anyone enlighten me on this?

As stated, the short answer is that this is a control deck and not a ramp deck. Longer answer to follow.

Retraced Image, in particular, is absolutely awful. Looking at the lists that people commonly run, there's not a whole lot you could even put in, and even less that you'd actually want to. I guess you could use it to double up on Primeval Titan, but that screams "win more" from the rooftops. If one is on the battlefield, odds are pretty good the opponent can't deal with it as it is, otherwise it probably would immediately eat a removal spell. It also means you would have to hold another Titan in hand...for reasons. Basically, it would involve me wasting a slot in my hand - a slot that I could put back on top of my library with Brainstorm and shuffle out or otherwise move away with Ponder, Sensei's Divining Top, fetchlands, or whatever, in favor of grabbing a card that can help me with my current situation. Probably the only real way the card would be used would be to get another land onto the battlefield...but it has to be a land you already have out. Exploration does way more to accomplish this role, and it does it better. Speaking of which, I'll get back to Exploration momentarily.

Speaking of ramp decks and Exploration, before I had access to Force of Will and duals, I tweaked the deck to make it monogreen and I made it a ramp deck. I ran cards like Exploration, Horn of Greed, and the hilarious budget rare Clear the Land: a card which even most Magic veterans have to actually stop and look at to determine what it does. When the deck really hummed, I could hard-cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn turn 4, turn 3 with a little luck, and turn 2 a single time with an accidental assist from my opponent (which was absolutely hilarious). Most of the time, though, the deck just flat-out fell on its face. If my opponent had any disruption, I was in trouble. If my opponent could combo out quicker, I was in trouble.

The big problem with all of these cards is actually pretty simple: the cards do absolutely nothing by themselves. Dropping Horn of Greed, for example, won't even pay out for you the first turn you could play it, assuming you get it out. If your opponent takes his turn, drops a land (netting a card), and then destroys it, you've actively helped your opponent and cost him little to nothing. If you don't pull a land off the top rope, it's still doing you nothing. Exploration suffers the same problem. While combining it with Horn makes it stronger late, it still, again, does nothing by itself. Compare this to the RUG or U/G lists. How many cards are "do nothing"? Really, probably the only one is Show and Tell, and even that's a bad example since there will nearly always be something you can use it on, and quite often, a resolved Show basically wins you the game outright.

[Seirei]

Okay, thanks for the indepht review.

I already thought these cards may be too situational, but you raise some good points.

[203995014]

Why are we mainboarding Bojuka Bog instead of Glacial Chasm? Isn't Glacial Chasm going to be much more relevant? It also gives us an out vs. fast aggro G1 which we don't really have G1 and works vs. Dredge also.

[Mockingbird]

Version I've been tinkering with:

// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [RLM] Glacial Chasm

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [GP] Repeal
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
3 [LRW] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 4 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 3 [CS] Commandeer
SB: 2 [EVE] Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap

Unsure about MBT versus Flusterstorm in the side. Trying to find a logical resolution of Commandeer/Glen Elendra with the other free/cheap counters of Swansong/Fluster. Still considering Disrupting Shoal, at which point I would go back to Flusterstorms over commandeer/MBT.

With only 1 Chain of Vapor to be Repeal 5, I think you may want to try to use the slot to try Stroke of Genius (or maybe -1 Top), but you can go back to my thoughts from my testing it on the previous pages. While my opinion hasn't changed that much, I'm still running the one, which is saying something in favor of it.