[Primer] Elves!

[Megadeus]

So maybe:

4 Elvish Visionary
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Llanowar Elves

4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Heritage Druid

2 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Progenitus
2 Birchlore Rangers
1 Viridian Shaman

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order

4 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
4 Gaea's Cradle
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Dryad Arbor


SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Natural Order
SB: 1 Hornet Queen / 2nd Grip / Meekstone / Null Rod
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Krosan Grip




Two Hoofs not right only applies to the Sigarda build because it has secondary Absolute Boss class NO targets for both fair and unfair matchups, and even then I'm not 100% sure about it.
You're not packing Ruric AND Sigarda main, 2 Hoofs is 100% where I want to be. 2 Hoofs are made of win and awesome.

I like the look of it. I've been testing -1 Viridian Shaman, -1 hoof, -1 birchlore, + 1 fyndhorn elves, +1 heritage druid. Also I probably can only get 3 cradles for the time being. Otherwise, very close to my list. I like it though. Shaman seems very good. And looking at it, 3 NO targets seems good, especially considering casting hoof is quite realistic

[Shagstaman]

what is the best card that covers both show and tell AND reanimator...I was thinking guilded drake but that'd require a trop to cast vs Iona... and Karakas would probably be the next most valid option..followed by oblivion ring (gets around iona also)

thoughts?

also...this new wave of lands/jund depths and similar decks has me worried about tabernacle and punishing fire. What's the best way to go about countering these decks aside from just beating them to the punch? Some ideas I had were surgical extraction (loam, tabernacle if it gets binned, punishing fire if it gets binned, etc) and obv ooze helps a TON vs these decks. anything else??

Thanks, wish me luck this weekend (scg open)

[Megadeus]

what is the best card that covers both show and tell AND reanimator...I was thinking guilded drake but that'd require a trop to cast vs Iona... and Karakas would probably be the next most valid option..followed by oblivion ring (gets around iona also)

thoughts?

also...this new wave of lands/jund depths and similar decks has me worried about tabernacle and punishing fire. What's the best way to go about countering these decks aside from just beating them to the punch? Some ideas I had were surgical extraction (loam, tabernacle if it gets binned, punishing fire if it gets binned, etc) and obv ooze helps a TON vs these decks. anything else??

Thanks, wish me luck this weekend (scg open)

I'm already running a crop rotation (because I'm poor) so I would think Karakas would be a solid addition for that MU. Gilded Drake seems alright as well though.

Also I'll be playing this weekend as well, though I'll be on ANT for the weekend.

[danyul]

Karakas to bounce legends. Pithing Needle to hit Grizzlebees and Sneak Attack. And against Reanimator you should add a wish and a prayer into that mix.

[Shagstaman]

I guess karakas does kinda answer linvala and such too... is it better than o-ring? I like having an out to moat (which has been popping up here and there the past few NA events)

mega, yea I got my cradles now but I kinda miss the crop rotation toolbox! instant speed bojuka bog won me several games i had no right winning.. =)

edit: in case it wasn't obv I'm running a white splash for teeg and sliver...so my savannah can actually pay for these things in case that is a consideration.

[Megadeus]

I guess karakas does kinda answer linvala and such too... is it better than o-ring? I like having an out to moat (which has been popping up here and there the past few NA events)

mega, yea I got my cradles now but I kinda miss the crop rotation toolbox! instant speed bojuka bog won me several games i had no right winning.. =)

edit: in case it wasn't obv I'm running a white splash for teeg and sliver...so my savannah can actually pay for these things in case that is a consideration.

Well if moat is an issue, there is always Pridemage. Wont help much vs Reanimator/SnT outside of against a sneak attack with no mana open, but it's a thing. I think Karakas is probably best honestly, and yeah Needles seem good. SOmething I will definitely be running once I get my version up and going.

[Lans89]

How do you guys side vs Esper Blade and Deathblade? It is not in the primer. I side:

+3 Thoughtseize
+2 Needle (equipment)
+1 Natural Order
+1 Progenitus

-2 Herritage Druid (run 3 main)
-2 Nettle Sentinel
-1 Ruric Thar
-2 Glimpse

But sometimes I wish I would have sided in Decays for Cage, Meddling Mage etc :\

[Secretly.A.Bee]

What is your full sideboard?

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[Lemnear]

What is your full sideboard?

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Wanna give a thumb-up for you trying to help out here with your Esperblade-knowledge. Want to highlight that, as I begun to miss real community work in this forum....

[Lans89]

What is your full sideboard?

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3 decay
2 needle
1 Natural order
1 progenitus
2 Thorn of amethyst
3 thoughtseize
3 therapy

I run ruric, 2 craterhoof, Ooze and virdian shaman main. So I had to cut to 3 herritage.
Maybe I should not board needle, and board decay instead. But those decks hit you with discard and needle can be jammed on the table when you draw it!

[Kayradis]

Wanna give a thumb-up for you trying to help out here with your Esperblade-knowledge. Want to highlight that, as I begun to miss real community work in this forum....

Does my lack of interest appears that much? :P

[Julian23]

I usually like only 2 Thoughtseize against Blade-decks and also bring in only 1 Pithing Needle (unless they run Lavamancer which also means they don't run Decay). So that's 2 more spots Abrupt Decay can take, which is overall the much more flexible card.

Against Team America 3rd Decay for sure since they have Delver. Against Esperblade, 3rd Decay is usually correct as well because of Canonist and Cage. Since Esperblade has Zealous Persecution and TA has Golgari Charm (while both might have EPlague), I don't like to side out Nettle Sentinel but 1 will have to go as you can still Fetch Dryad into Progenitus. So instead I might actually take out 1 GSZ in case they have Cage or maybe even a Quirion Ranger. Also, whenever I bring in Progenitus, I take our the 2nd Hoof; so there's your 3rd slot for Decay.

[Lans89]

I usually like only 2 Thoughtseize against Blade-decks and also bring in only 1 Pithing Needle (unless they run Lavamancer which also means they don't run Decay). So that's 2 more spots Abrupt Decay can take, which is overall the much more flexible card.

Against Team America 3rd Decay for sure since they have Delver. Against Esperblade, 3rd Decay is usually correct as well because of Canonist and Cage. Since Esperblade has Zealous Persecution and TA has Golgari Charm (while both might have EPlague), I don't like to side out Nettle Sentinel but 1 will have to go as you can still Fetch Dryad into Progenitus. So instead I might actually take out 1 GSZ in case they have Cage or maybe even a Quirion Ranger. Also, whenever I bring in Progenitus, I take our the 2nd Hoof; so there's your 3rd slot for Decay.

Thanks!

So vs Esper Blade it will be something like this =)?:

+3 Decay
+1 Needle
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Natural Order
+1 Progenitus

-1 Ruric Thar
-1 Craterhoof
-2 Herritage Druid (leave 1)
-1 Nettle Sentinel
-2 Glimpse
-1 Zenith

I actualy made room for Ooze main, just like you showed on Twitch. I always ran him main before your BoM victory anyways :P.. I like to play a different side but maybe I shouldn't copy your main too much ^^! But with no Ooze in the main I added a 3th Thoughtseize. But if you side only 2 vs Blade decks, I might want something else vs combo. Any ideas? I know you run Mindbreak Trap, but I don't like that card at all.

Ps: I believe Elves can still hande the hate vs TNN. In the past you had to deal with Perish vs Esper Blade, but now only ZP (ok, also Verdict.. but that one is slower!). And I can overcome 2 ZP with al the x/2 dorks and bouncing stuff, but Perish was much harder (also hits Progenitus :\). BUG Delver/Team America or Shardless BUG have Golgari Charms, but I still win most of it. And pre-board it's easy!

[Zombie]

Thanks!

So vs Esper Blade it will be something like this =)?:

+3 Decay
+1 Needle
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Natural Order
+1 Progenitus

-1 Ruric Thar
-1 Craterhoof
-2 Herritage Druid (leave 1)
-1 Nettle Sentinel
-2 Glimpse
-1 Zenith

I actualy made room for Ooze main, just like you showed on Twitch. I always ran him main before your BoM victory anyways :P.. I like to play a different side but maybe I shouldn't copy your main too much ^^! But with no Ooze in the main I added a 3th Thoughtseize. But if you side only 2 vs Blade decks, I might want something else vs combo. Any ideas? I know you run Mindbreak Trap, but I don't like that card at all.

Ps: I believe Elves can still hande the hate vs TNN. In the past you had to deal with Perish vs Esper Blade, but now only ZP (ok, also Verdict.. but that one is slower!). And I can overcome 2 ZP with al the x/2 dorks and bouncing stuff, but Perish was much harder (also hits Progenitus :\). BUG Delver/Team America or Shardless BUG have Golgari Charms, but I still win most of it. And pre-board it's easy!

Your sideboard is just fine, it's what I'd run to a card in nonblue builds. The third Thoughtseize is what I'd play vs. combo anyway, the card is awesome.

[Julian23]

Note that I'm still shuffling around the combo hate in the sb a lot. I used to have 3 Thoughtseizes as of lately, but went back to 2 when I discovered that I side in only 2 against Blade decks anyways. So instead I opted to increase the Cabal Therapy count as it became apparant that that slot was a dedicated combo-slot instead of the hybrid control/combo slot that Thoughtseize occupies. Mindbreak Trap I'm still not fully decided on as it doesn't do anything against slowcombo.

[Kayradis]

I really love Cabal Therapy over Thoughtseize.
Sure, you can miss, but Im one gambling motherfucker

[Julian23]

Just arrived home from work and still got some minor things to do, but will be streaming the Legacy Daily at 8pm CET (in 1:40h).

Tune in an join us on http://www.twitch.tv/itsJulian.

[Megadeus]

How long will you be streaming? That is unfortunately right when my next class begins

[Julian23]

(Hopefully) 4 rounds of MODO Legacy, which usually equals 3h. After that, some more 2man action and depending on who's available, maybe some practice in the Storm matchup. Not that you can really practice vs Storm as it's a highly tactical, less strategical matchup anyways

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Thank you, Lemnear. This is for my benefit as well, though.

I usually like only 2 Thoughtseize against Blade-decks and also bring in only 1 Pithing Needle (unless they run Lavamancer which also means they don't run Decay). So that's 2 more spots Abrupt Decay can take, which is overall the much more flexible card.

So what's your argument for only running 2 Thoughtseize and only 1 Pithing Needle?

Thoughtseize is a terrible topdeck, I'm very aware. However, the sooner you draw it the better it is, and 3 is the number of any card I play in any deck to see one a game. As far as Needle goes, I would think that you would prefer to get one on Jitte ASAP/get it or other hate (cage, ZP, Verdict) out of my hand. My goal against elves is Jitte on the table turn 3. You probably have game 1, putting me on the play game 2.

Barring a reasonable explanation from Julian, I think Lans has it right. It's fairly scary, imo. Pairing multiple forms of disruption on my main plan of attack (needle/AD on equipment/mystic, early discard for info, to deal with previously tutored equipment or my 2nd turn mystic, and Prog for inevitability) has always been the strongest way to take on any matchup, as long as it's paired with the pressure of a clock.

I am unsure of a couple choices you made, Lans, as far as what you took out, but I don't play with elves often enough to make that call. I would like to hear the reasons on your sided-out choices.

What are the most difficult aspects of facing non-red blade control lists such as esper and UW (I'm guessing red is pyroclasm and lavamancer)? What is the best strategy for blade control to combat you pre- and post-board?

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