Thalia and the possible presence of the new cantrip-hate cat make excessive cantrips clunky and also a small liability of clogging up our hand. They put a lot of strain on our mana and usually threaten to run away on tempo in the early game leaving us answering their threaths. This leaves little time to ponder effectively.Originally Posted by anakyn
Mid-late game ponder is very good at finding the right answers for what is left of their assault, but at this point of the game, where our mana is established , we are starting to pull ahead anyways - so I shave usually a few ponders (1-2) to fit in more impact cards. Siding forces out we don't have to worry about the blue count either.
I usually side in at least: 3 charm, 3 disfigure, 1 liliana, 1 grip/pulse, 1 vendilion, 1 sylvan and if I'm running any of these; these jitte, tar pit, needle, seize.
So I'm bringing in 11-12 cards usually.
8 counters, ~1 stalker, ~2 ponder maybe a hymn usually have to move.
Hello everyone, I'm having a very rough time against the meta I'm facing and I'd like to have some opinions on possible sideboard options. I just came back from a tournament at my local store (ending with a sad 2 - 2) after facing Nic Fit, Sneak & Show, Omniscience and Lands (R/G version). Other decks that I saw were Death & Taxes, Dredge, another Nic Fit and a Jund Depth. Any SB options I should consider? I was thinking of running 3x Surgical Extraction, what do you think?
Hi,
well NicFit & Lands are just super bad MU! I played last week against both decks too and lost 3/4 of my games as well. Honoustly if your meta looks like Lands, NicFit, DnT, Jund Depths etc. I would just switch the deck and playing miralces or something. If you want to stay with TA then I would play Nihil Spellbomb/Surgical Extraction in the SB against Jund Depths & Lands for sure. Against Control heavy decks like NicFit you can play more value cards like Sylvan Library, Liliana, Hymn or especially after boarding something like Thrunn, Creeping Tar-Pit, more Planeswalkers (Jace, Garruk Reentles) etc, things which they struggle with because you attack them from different angles (PW`s, Creatures, Lands).
Hope I could help you a bit.
Currently playingEldrazi
About the scenario:
TA: Fetch for Sea, cast Deathrite
CT: Tropical, cast Delver
TA: Play Waste, cast Hymn, then Waste the Tropical
I personally would like them to waste a Daze on it. If the Trop is the only land they have, they might want to protect it. If they use Daze to rescue their land, it'll cost them a card and a land drop. Tempo remains in my advantage (big time), Hymn could still discard the Tropical and when they replay the land I can still Waste it, or they use up another turn to rescue their land again by leaving open U for a Stifle. Seems like a game I want to play.
Same here. I'll tap my waste for a mana if they wish to miss a landdrop and disc daze.About the scenario:
TA: Fetch for Sea, cast Deathrite
CT: Tropical, cast Delver
TA: Play Waste, cast Hymn, then Waste the Tropical
I personally would like them to waste a Daze on it. If the Trop is the only land they have, they might want to protect it. If they use Daze to rescue their land, it'll cost them a card and a land drop. Tempo remains in my advantage (big time), Hymn could still discard the Tropical and when they replay the land I can still Waste it, or they use up another turn to rescue their land again by leaving open U for a Stifle. Seems like a game I want to play.
Not like the waste will never ever again find pray. I doubt this ever happens in gameplay with no narcotics involved though.
Against nic fit, dig for stalker and dig for it hard! They cannot decay or deed it and if you save your counters to protect it he could ride the distance.
Barring weird scenarios, stalker is how you win games here.
I saw yesterday a lot of new Top 8 TA decklists at mtgdecks.net and all of them were cutting the FoW and added Spell Pierce + more removal MD like Disfigure/Dismember.
What do you guys think of that in the current meta? Moving FoW to the SB...
List would look like this:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Tombstalker
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana
1 Disfigure
1 Dismember
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Golgari Charm
3 Force of Will
2 Krosan Grip
2 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Liliana
1 Vendilion Clique (Maybe 2)
1 Disfigure
What do you guys think? Keep in mind that FoW is in most fair MU the 1st card which we board out and additional removal is quite nice against a lot of DnT, Elves, Bladedecks. Plus which such a list we have lower numbers of weak cards in the lategame.
Currently playing
Would that still be the best strategy if the Nic Fit player splashed white for Path to Exiles? Between Path to Exile, Go for the Throat and Eternal Witness it really seemed impossible to protect it.
Nihil Spellbomb and Surgical Extraction both seem very reasonable against Lands (especially the ones only having Punishing Fire/Dark Depth as win conditions). Thrun and Jace could actually do something against Nic Fit but I feel like I'm probably going to be overrun by the time I can cast them.
Guys I'm going to attempt some good matchups in the GP Paris (15/02) and I'm in doubt about my sideboard tech.
Sideboard:
3 Disfigure
1 Engineered Plague
2 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Liliana of the Veil
3 Spell Pierce
1 Submerge
1 Vendilion Clique
I'm thinking put another Vendilion Clique and the third Golgari Charm instead the Plague.
What do you think?
All depending on your MD.
Currently playing
Honestly it looks fine to me. Who knows *what* you'll actually get paired against, and even then it's a question of whether you'll ever actually draw the cards or not.
One slot I'm iffy on in your board is Engineered Plague. What do you want this to be fighting? If it's for TNN or tokens, you're better off with the third Golgari Charm. If you want it to fight White decks, you may be better off with Dread of Night. Alternatively, Darkblast is another card to consider. I've played Plague before, but I honestly feel like there are better tools for the job now. Unless you're really expecting a ton of Goblins?
No opinions on a FoWless list? Such a list went in 1st place of a 60 man turney and toped 8 a couple times 8n last time.
Currently playing
I don.'t like so much the Hyms to play them over the fows, in somo MU they are dead card and same thing in long grindy game.
But maybe 3 fow instead of 4, just to have another flex spot, could be a thing.
As a side note Scott Tompkins top 8ed the SCG open with a list that features TNN instead of tombstalker (if you can't beat them join them) and a singleton of Probe with one less land (i like this, information and draw for free).
- L
In that FoWless list you dont play Hymn over FoW, you play Spell Pierce over Hymn! Hymn is in TA the standard discard spell of choice...
I think most of the time you play against midrange/fair decks where the FoW is the weakest card in our deck (and the 1st which we board out all 4) and replacing them with pierce produces no carddisadvantage and we can play more removel like 2 Disfigure/Dismember which helps alot in Elves, DnT, Blade MU´s.
And against unfair decks you have them in your SB.
I dont like the SCG Nash Top 8 list that much. TNN is nice but not in this deck (no equippment to support him) and it makes our own Golgari Charms in the SB alot weaker.
I tested both versions and the Stalker version were much stronger because Stalker is just a much faster clock & dodges most of the removal too (Decay, Bolt, P.Fire etc).
The 4 Thoughtseize´s are ok, you can play that, but depends on the meta, for the moment I prefer 4 Hymn in that slot.
By the way, the SB is very weak to Miracles which is in europe a big player right now.
Currently playing
Plus he runs Liliana of the Dark Realms! I mean, cmon (just kidding, it's probably a misprint).
I'm also partly intrigued by the three Dismember instead of Disfigure in the sideboard. I guess he becomes a Tarmogoyf/Batterskull killing machine postboard, but it just seems like a lot of lifeloss in a deck that already runs Thoughtseize and can conceivably board in Sylvan Library.
The Liliana of the Dark Realms is a mistake for sure, should been Liliana of the Veil.
Same thought about the 3 Dismember in the SB, in combination with 4 TS MD its a suicide action. Disfigure kills 80 % of the important creatures too exept for Goyf, Knight, Stalker, BS-Token but well for that reason we have 4 AD & 2 Liliana...
Currently playing
This weekend I had a local tournament with 34 ppl in it. 6 Rounds to demonstrate how crucial the 1st game is. I mean, TA is a deck prepared to beat Tier 1. When you face "random decks" you lose.
I used the exact same deck, card by card, that won a 140+ tournament at 100km from this one. The deck:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12711&iddeck=93223
I'll safe you the details (I didn't take notes) but you'll get the idea:
- R1: UR Delver.
We end 1-1-1 and time is called when I could stabilize G3.I lost G1 to an Epic Topdeck and I won G2 just rolling over. DRAW
- R2: Affinity
Here it starts... I face affinity which is a deck that laughs at Daze and that may skip most of the Decays. He also packed Chalice @1 in the first 60, so I was almost out of the match. I've never missed my Pernicious Deeds that much. 0-2. Loss
- R3: Imperial Painters
Great pairing... for him! I lose G1 to a T1 Blood Moon (Fow) T2 Blood Moon. I can't do anything the rest of the game. G2 I win countering his T1 Blood Moon and smashing his T2 Moon with my Deathrite (that came in my 1st turn) and Krosan Grip. G3 I mull to 4(!!) to get a counter and I win this game with only Deathrites (2x Ensanring Bridges on the board) 2-1 WIN!!
- R4: Nic Fit
The best deck to be paired with. This version had splash to blue for Brainstorm, Phantasmal Image, Glen-Elendra Archmage and Sower. He was also running the Birthing Pod to get the perfect card. I managed to get to Game 3 but I could not win the machup, i maybe used the Deathrite too defensively (I "stabilised" at 3 prior to his comeback) and he ended at 4. 1-2. LOSS
- R5: Merfolks
Let's talk about the good pairings, the bad ones and then Merfolks! :) Not much to comment here 0-2 Loss.
- R6: Death And Taxes.
Yes, it's a Tier deck, but it's the only Tier you don't want to face. 1-2 Loss.
I chose the wrong deck for the meta. In fact, it changed a lot, from the 30-40% TNN in the meta to something very different. Top8 was:
3 Dredge, 2 Miracles, 1 UW Tempo, 1 Pox, 1 DeathBlade
I wish you the best of luck in Round 1!! :)
PS: I know it's not the place to ask for it, but any indications on something better suitted to this, will be apreciated.
A PRO doesn't draw, he tutors every turn.
JMLL
with that meta, play goblins
Hey Guys,
so only a couple of days till GP Paris and I´m still unsure what kind of list I will play, need your adive or tips for that:
I have 2 different lists and it can be only one:
List 1: So the mainstream list as usual with FoW MD and 2 Lilis. Cages in the SB (Not sure if I should play Nihil Spellbomb or Surgical Extraction because I´m afraid of Lands, Jund Depths etc. But Cage is so good against elves too :-(
Mainboard: 60 Karten
14 Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker
26 Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil
20 Lands
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Golgari Charm
3 Disfigure
3 Spell Pierce
2 Grafdiggers Cage (Maybe Spellbomb or Surgical E. for Loam decks like Lands, Jund Depths etc)
2 Pithing Needle
1 Vendilion Qlique
1 Krosan Grip
And here version 2: The FoWless build with more removal and Pierce in the FoW slot. The FoW are in the SB and I have more space for a 2nd Grip & a 2nd Clique (which I like a lot)
Mainboard: 60 Cards
14 Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker
26 Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Disfigure
20 Lands
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
4 Force of Will
3 Golgari Charm
2 Grafdiggers Cage (Maybe Spellbomb or Surgical E. for Loam decks like Lands, Jund Depths etc)
2 Pithing Needle
2 Vendilion Qlique
2 Krosan Grip
I´m really unsure because how I said before FoW is in the whole fair MU the 1st card which we board out and more removal is very nice against Elves, DnT, Bladedecks etc, or opposing DS...
And if I play against a unfair deck I´m not totally blank because of 3 Daze 3 Pierce 4 Hymn + 4 FoW in the SB + 2 Vendilion C.
Also I´m afraid of playing against the popular loam decks like Lands, Jund Depths and stuff like that, Cage is great against Dredge, Reanimator & Elves but it does NOTHING against Loam/P.Fire engines which is very bad.
Pierce in the FoW slot was not thaat good because most of the time I tap me out because of Hymn, Goyf, Lili and I dont have the U to cast pierce but in other situations Pierce were much better than FoW because I had no other blue card in hand or it did not made carddisadantage. Plus most of the time you have to pitch good U stuff like BS, Ponder, Delver which is double bad in my opinion, so I´m really unsure...
How I said earlier, in Germany the FoWless builds went very good the last weeks, so....
So what do you guys mean? Pleas help me sourcers ;-)
Currently playing
Game one you basically want to be tapping out every turn, MD spell pierce doesn't work at all with that strategy
FoWless buids seem useable in a meta full of fair stuff. In the Netherlands, it just isn't an option. Too much TES/ANT/S&T here.
About the regular list:
I'd recommend playing 1x Cage, 1x Surgical. Surgical against Loam/Punishing Fire, Cage against Elves.
Also I'm not sure about the Peedles. 1x Sylvan Library seems nice there. Also Submerge or a 4th Pierce could be ok.
But the latter is definitely a meta thing. If you think you'll need the Peedles, I guess these are the slots for them.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
