[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

[grizzlegrizzle]

Long timer lurker, finally joined to share my resent results.

This is the list i played to 33rd (x-3) at scg Nashville. Pretty pleased with my results. after losing in rd 1, i stayed x-1 until rd 7. Ended up getting "no sir'd" on the draw offer when both of us were locked out of top 8 and into top 32 w/ a draw. Of course the opponent was on Junk Depths, so I was destroyed. I had a great time though, and did a lot better than excepted because this is first event that i have run Team America. Both Surgical and Cage were awesome out of the SB, I am unsure about library. In theory it is great, but i always found myself wanting to cast something else when i had an opportunity. I'm q'd for the invitational and have a few other opens that i am planning on playing , so any help would be appreciated.

PS. HYMN OVER THOUGHTSIEZE ALL DAY.

Matches:
rd 1 lost to 5 color cascade
rd 2 won vs ANT
rd 3 won vs ravager affinity
rd 4 won vs elves
rd 5 won vs burn
rd 6 won vs deathblade (alex bertonocini is back and he can't believe that DRS did 18 damage to him in one game)
rd 7 lost vs ANT (opponent top 8'ed)
rd 8 won vs sneak and show
rd 9 lost vs Junk depths (i really had no idea what to do in this m/u)


14 Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker

26 Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil

20 Lands
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
1 Dread of Night (was expecting a large spirit of the lab showing, and i didn't end of using it ever. This might become massacre as it has other applications)
1 Flusterstorm
1 Submerge
1 Slyvan Library
2 Golgari Charm
2 Disfigure
2 Spell Pierce
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Krosan Grip

[Manipulato]

FoWless buids seem useable in a meta full of fair stuff. In the Netherlands, it just isn't an option. Too much TES/ANT/S&T here.

About the regular list:
I'd recommend playing 1x Cage, 1x Surgical. Surgical against Loam/Punishing Fire, Cage against Elves.
Also I'm not sure about the Peedles. 1x Sylvan Library seems nice there. Also Submerge or a 4th Pierce could be ok.
But the latter is definitely a meta thing. If you think you'll need the Peedles, I guess these are the slots for them.

Hi,
the needles are for Sneak Attack, Top, Aether Vial, Griselbrand, PW`s. I expect a lot of Miracles, so the Needle on Top is very nice because its one of they´re key cards. Also it´s very nice to lay it down on Sneak Attack because Show & Tell is more easy to handle for us with 2/3 Lilis. In my playtesting needle was super against Sneak Show.
Even against Elves you can shut down Wirewood Symbiote which can be really important especially for Disfigure, Golgari Charm...

[Archangelst]

I wouldn't put a tremendous amount of stock in the SCGNash list being better than the "standard" list.

My SCGNash results.

Started 6-0

Round 7 - Win and in - Completely ranched by Show and Tell (this guy ended up 2nd place). Died to a Emrakul on turn 2 that was powered through a FoW both games. Nothing I could do here. Magic at its finest.

Round 8 - Win and in. I played the BUG Delver guy who top 8'd. Going in to game 3 we had 11 or 12 minutes left to finish the game and I was rushing to side and under a little pressure from him. I ended up picking up all the cards I had sided out and none of the cards I meant to side in, and putting them back in my deck. I ultimately lost to a TNN after I spent 5 turns digging for a Golgari charm (when all 3 were still in my board). He actually lost in top 8 to Elves, because of a deck reg issue. I think he had Dismember listed instead of Disfigure.

Round 9, I was the top seeded 18 pointer and had a chance (although very small) to top 8, so we played it out. We ended up going to turns and I scooped because he refused to. There weren't any extra points or money on the line, so it didn't matter. I ended up 29th and he ended up 10th (I would have been the same had I won, because 9th was a 22 pointer which was our very own resident Feline).

My swiss opponents were all strong. I played 4 of the top 8 in the swiss.

My sideboard was the only thing different than the stock list.

2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Plague
3 Disfigure
3 Golgari Charm
2 Krosan Grip
3 Spell Pierce

[Manipulato]

I wouldn't put a tremendous amount of stock in the SCGNash list being better than the "standard" list.

Started 6-0

Round 7 - Win and in - Completely ranched by Show and Tell (this guy ended up 2nd place). Died to a Emrakul on turn 2 that was powered through a FoW both games. Nothing I could do here. Magic at its finest.

Round 8 - Win and in. I played the BUG Delver guy who top 8'd. Going in to game 3 we had 11 or 12 minutes left to finish the game and I was rushing to side and under a little pressure from him. I ended up picking up all the cards I had sided out and none of the cards I meant to side in, and putting them back in my deck. I ultimately lost to a TNN after I spent 5 turns digging for a Golgari charm (when all 3 were still in my board). He actually lost in top 8 to Elves, because of a deck reg issue. I think he had Dismember listed instead of Disfigure.

Round 9, I was the top seeded 18 pointer and had a chance (although very small) to top 8, so we played it out. We ended up going to turns and I scooped because he refused to. There weren't any extra points or money on the line, so it didn't matter. I ended up 29th and he ended up 10th (I would have been the same had I won, because 9th was a 22 pointer which was our very own resident Feline).

My swiss opponents were all strong. I played 4 of the top 8 in the swiss.

My sideboard was the only thing different than the stock list.

2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Plague
3 Disfigure
3 Golgari Charm
2 Krosan Grip
3 Spell Pierce

Gratz to the finish,
how was your boarding plans? Especially against elves or other Tier 1 decks. ..

[pandaman]

I wouldn't put a tremendous amount of stock in the SCGNash list being better than the "standard" list.

My SCGNash results.

Started 6-0

Round 7 - Win and in - Completely ranched by Show and Tell (this guy ended up 2nd place). Died to a Emrakul on turn 2 that was powered through a FoW both games. Nothing I could do here. Magic at its finest.

Round 8 - Win and in. I played the BUG Delver guy who top 8'd. Going in to game 3 we had 11 or 12 minutes left to finish the game and I was rushing to side and under a little pressure from him. I ended up picking up all the cards I had sided out and none of the cards I meant to side in, and putting them back in my deck. I ultimately lost to a TNN after I spent 5 turns digging for a Golgari charm (when all 3 were still in my board). He actually lost in top 8 to Elves, because of a deck reg issue. I think he had Dismember listed instead of Disfigure.

Round 9, I was the top seeded 18 pointer and had a chance (although very small) to top 8, so we played it out. We ended up going to turns and I scooped because he refused to. There weren't any extra points or money on the line, so it didn't matter. I ended up 29th and he ended up 10th (I would have been the same had I won, because 9th was a 22 pointer which was our very own resident Feline).

My swiss opponents were all strong. I played 4 of the top 8 in the swiss.

My sideboard was the only thing different than the stock list.

2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Plague
3 Disfigure
3 Golgari Charm
2 Krosan Grip
3 Spell Pierce

Wow, a glowing endorsement of the deck's strength in the current meta. If you played 4 of the Top 8 in the Swiss rounds, and you only seem to have lost to the one you played in Round 8, you beat 3. Great work!

Tough break with the sideboarding error mate, condolences. I used to stuff up sideboarding a lot, too, so what I now do is shove all 15 cards into my deck, shuffle, and then pull 15 out. Then you always have the right number of cards after sideboarding, and it has the added bonus of not revealing how many cards you're bringing in. For all the opponent knows, it could be 15, or none at all!

[MoonDark]

Hey guys,

I'm playing the standard list with Sylvan/Lili in the flex slots.

I've been having issues with Reanimator, it's a very tuff match if you don't happen to open with DrS (and be on the play).

my SB looks like:

3 Spell Pierce
3 Gogari Charm
2 Disfigure
1 Clique
1 Submerge
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Krosan Grip

Against reanimator I think that this is the best SB strategy:

-4 Abrupt Decay
-1 Sylvan Library
-1 Liliana
-1 Tomb Stalker

+1 Surgical Extraction
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Pithing Needle (against Griselbrand)
+3 Spell Pierce (can help a lot, even more if they play Show and Tell)
+1 Vendilion Clique (in case the game extends a bit)

Thoughts? how do you guys play out this match?

[Asthereal]

I'd go -2 Stalker and keep the Lily.
Sac effects are awesome against fatty.dec!

Other than that, boarding seems spot on.
(Edit: wait, you put in Pithing Needle. I'd probably leave that out, because we lose to a 7/7 flying lifelinker anyway. Card draw doesn't usually matter.)

[Darkness]

Hey guys,

I'm playing the standard list with Sylvan/Lili in the flex slots.

I've been having issues with Reanimator, it's a very tuff match if you don't happen to open with DrS (and be on the play).

my SB looks like:

3 Spell Pierce
3 Gogari Charm
2 Disfigure
1 Clique
1 Submerge
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Krosan Grip

Against reanimator I think that this is the best SB strategy:

-4 Abrupt Decay
-1 Sylvan Library
-1 Liliana
-1 Tomb Stalker

+1 Surgical Extraction
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Pithing Needle (against Griselbrand)
+3 Spell Pierce (can help a lot, even more if they play Show and Tell)
+1 Vendilion Clique (in case the game extends a bit)

Thoughts? how do you guys play out this match?

I would do this with your sideboard cards for Reanimator

-1 Sylvan Library
-2 Tombstalker
-4 Hymn to Tourach


The Hymns seem bad as they can help your opponent win through a discard outlet. I think Stalker is too slow in this match up and so is the library. Keeping in a the decays seem pretty powerful against reanimate dead and will destroy pithing needle on Deathrite Shaman.

Since I have 2 Liliana's MD and want the third from the board - and my Library lives in the board this is my configuration -

-2 Tombstalker
-4 Hymn to Tourach

+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Liliana - this is the third from the board I run a 2-1 MDSB split
+3 Spell Pierce
+1 Vendilion Clique

[MoonDark]

I'd go -2 Stalker and keep the Lily.
Sac effects are awesome against fatty.dec!

Other than that, boarding seems spot on.
(Edit: wait, you put in Pithing Needle. I'd probably leave that out, because we lose to a 7/7 flying lifelinker anyway. Card draw doesn't usually matter.)

The problem is that AFAIK, the sorcery speed of the liliana is not going to help with this match. If they resolve Griselbrand they will usually draw ~14 cards, and then manage to resolve an Emrakul.

Griselbrand down means death unless you have a Needle down.

I would do this with your sideboard cards for Reanimator

-1 Sylvan Library
-2 Tombstalker
-4 Hymn to Tourach


The Hymns seem bad as they can help your opponent win through a discard outlet. I think Stalker is too slow in this match up and so is the library. Keeping in a the decays seem pretty powerful against reanimate dead and will destroy pithing needle on Deathrite Shaman.

Since I have 2 Liliana's MD and want the third from the board - and my Library lives in the board this is my configuration -

-2 Tombstalker
-4 Hymn to Tourach

+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Liliana - this is the third from the board I run a 2-1 MDSB split
+3 Spell Pierce
+1 Vendilion Clique

Read my comments about sorcery speed of Liliana in this match.

About the decays, the good lists aren't playing animate dead anymore. Just exhume, reanimate and the mirage instant that's awesome for animating emrakul in response to the triggered ability when it goes into the graveyard.

The hymns are better than the Decays though, if their list is packing Show & Tell (sometimes they bring them in on match 2), or if you have grafdigger's cage that's even a stronger reason to leave them in (even better if you have surgical extraction).

[Darkness]

The problem is that AFAIK, the sorcery speed of the liliana is not going to help with this match. If they resolve Griselbrand they will usually draw ~14 cards, and then manage to resolve an Emrakul.

Griselbrand down means death unless you have a Needle down.



Read my comments about sorcery speed of Liliana in this match.

About the decays, the good lists aren't playing animate dead anymore. Just exhume, reanimate and the mirage instant that's awesome for animating emrakul in response to the triggered ability when it goes into the graveyard.

The hymns are better than the Decays though, if their list is packing Show & Tell (sometimes they bring them in on match 2), or if you have grafdigger's cage that's even a stronger reason to leave them in (even better if you have surgical extraction).

Unless you're talking about Tin Fins, a completely different archetype, I am unfamiliar with Emrakul being a standard card in reanimator lists. As far as the Show and Tell package, though it is still something they board in post board and have adopted MD their main strategy is still to reanimate as fast as they can. I can kinda see the argument of keeping hymn on the play, but definitely not on the draw, it's too slow. Our best hope of beating them is packing as much counter magic as possible and land 1 big threat or a DRS as early as possible and continuously apply pressure till they are dead. Also, though I would agree that Liliana is a poor choice if they have landed a Griselbrand and her +1 is basically dead for us. It still can be used to apply pressure and kill their fatty to push through the damage we need. Not saying it's the best card but it is an option. Abrupt Decay is live too, not all reanimator decks have given up on animate dead and again it's a great tool to kill pithing needle naming DRS or Liliana.

[Sturtzilla]

Greetings All!

I just wanted to give a quick report! I ran the "Wiley BUG" list this week at locals going 3-1-0 and ending in 3rd of about 15-20 people. I beat UWR Miracles (2-1), ANT (2-0), and Burn (2-0). I lost to turbo Dark Depths Combo (1-2). For those not familiar, the list is as follows:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
3 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
3 Flusterstorm
2 Disfigure
2 Golgari Charm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Maelstrom Pulse

The deck felt really good overall (Let's not get into the Stifle/Daze/Spell Pierce versus Discard and Liliana debate). I dropped a game to Miracles because I didn't hit land in my game two, 7 or 6 card hands. Going to 5 was rough. Against Storm and Burn I felt in control of all 4 games, although game one against Burn was close (I ended the game at 3 life with FoW, Daze, Ponder in hand). It did seem that the interaction with the Dark Depths combo deck is a bit poor. So I will likely be trying out either Sapphire Charm, Diabolic Edict, and/or Submerge in the future. The local meta doesn't really have a large cross section of green decks, so I am not thrilled about trying out Submerge just for the mirror and the Depths combo match ups (two other players total). I am leaning toward Charm as it helps fight Dark Depths and also helps deal with Batterskulls. I have also been pretty underwhelmed with the Pulse in the sideboard... that may be the card getting cut. So those are my thoughts at the moment, if you guys have any questions or suggestions hit me up!

[iamthib]

Hello, french player here.
I'm gonna play in GP Paris with TA. I liked the deck the minute I saw it operate and do its thing.
I love the way it jumps over the Nemesis with the Tombstalkers and charms. Nemesis is quite popular in France, especially BUG Nemesis and UWR Delver (basically what Owen T. won with in Washington). I felt like TA was really well equipped to fight those decks.

I'll play the standard list with 2 Lilianas in the soft spots. I've tested a bit with it and I like it better than one random disfigure and one random dismember for example. I prefer her cause she's not immediately a dead card when you're playing against Miracles (which is also quite popular in France) like disfigure is. In sideboard I'm gonna play this :

2 Grafdigger's Cage. I don't wanna lose to non interactive decks like Reanimator and Dredge or Storm. I feel like Cage is the best I can bring in Graveyard hate. And it provides a nice edge against Elves and random NO build. It used to be a submerge but with 4 Decay and disfigures in the side I felt like it wasn't that needed.
1 additional Liliana.
1 Krosan Grip. Good catch all.
1 Clique. Maybe two Clique is better than the additional Liliana now that I think of it ..
3 Spell Pierce
3 Disfigure
3 Golgari Charm. Card is bonkers right now.
1 Creeping Tar Pit. Okay I need a bit of advice. At first I played this card and in early testing I liked it but would only rate it "ok", not that amazing. It takes a lot of time to get online and even against Jace decks it's a bit clunky as they usually try to brainstorm into a removal for it. But I admit that it is a powerful tool. Now I've read what you guys talked about and many people are advocating for Sylvan Library. I'm very much interested in it. Could you tell me more about it ? What match up would it be great to bring it in?

Thanks. I'll do best to represent Team America (:

[Asthereal]

The problem is that AFAIK, the sorcery speed of the liliana is not going to help with this match. If they resolve Griselbrand they will usually draw ~14 cards, and then manage to resolve an Emrakul.

I too think you confuse Tinfins and Reanimator. Regardless, a reanimated Grisel kills us even without the draws.
You want to cast the Lily when you managed to stop them from going off early. Lily just poops on Reanimator when she sticks.

Tinfins is a different story. But Tinfins is VERY unreliable. I tried it, and it loses to itself quite often. I wouldn't worry about that deck too much.

[KobeBryan]

What do you guys think of my sideboard.

Standard list with lily and library

1 lily
2 spell pierce
1 flusterstorm
1 grafdiggers cage
2 surgical extractions
1 krosan grip
1 maelstrom pulse
3 disfigure
3 golgari charm

Expecting lots of blades and punishing, or do you think i overboarded for the matchup

Because i'm thinking if i play against a Punishing blade deck, i would bring in cage, 2 surgicals, grip, disfigure and take out the forces and maybe stalker and a hymn

if i'm playing against UWR, i bring in 3 disfigure, 3 charms, and 1 krosan grip and 1 maelstrom. I take out my library, 4 fow, a hymn, two stalkers.

What do you think

[Darkness]

What do you guys think of my sideboard.

Standard list with lily and library

1 lily
2 spell pierce
1 flusterstorm
1 grafdiggers cage
2 surgical extractions
1 krosan grip
1 maelstrom pulse
3 disfigure
3 golgari charm

Expecting lots of blades and punishing, or do you think i overboarded for the matchup

Because i'm thinking if i play against a Punishing blade deck, i would bring in cage, 2 surgicals, grip, disfigure and take out the forces and maybe stalker and a hymn

if i'm playing against UWR, i bring in 3 disfigure, 3 charms, and 1 krosan grip and 1 maelstrom. I take out my library, 4 fow, a hymn, two stalkers.

What do you think

I would keep in Library against most fair decks, the continuous flow of card filter and card draw is very powerful. I just played a few hours of testing against my Stoneblade with TNN and found out Liliana to be extremely potent. Basically one of the only cards that was good at any point in the game. I advise to keep the Liliana's and library in. In my opinion take out dazes against the fair decks where match ups go long, it incrementally gets worse each turn not used till it is unusable.

[Grand Superior]

Wow, Team America is by far the most represented archetype at Day two of GP Paris. Hopefully at least one of them makes the top 8.

[Looooooooo]

Wow, Team America is by far the most represented archetype at Day two of GP Paris. Hopefully at least one of them makes the top 8.

I think it did

- L

[Grand Superior]

It certainly did, but what's more interesting is that none of the successful lists were the stock list with Hymns and Tombstalkers. The list that fell in the quarterfinals was a Hymn to Tourach/True-Name Nemesis list with zero Lilianas and the one in the finals (as I type this) has 2 Dark Confidants, 3/2 split of Hymn and Thoughtseize, and 3 Lilianas.

EDIT: Guess it won. Congrats to Javier!

[Dragonslayer_90]

Deathrite Shaman and Delver of Secrets best buddies in legacy. Proud to be a Team America player at the moment. One thing I'd like to note is that while both lists didn't run tombstalker they did both run hymn to tourach. I think that this is a testament to what Deathrite Shaman has really done for the deck since the person playing TNN in there deck was not afraid of running double blue and double black spells. Deathrite Shaman just allows that deck to do so much. Previously people who have discussed the lists incorporating TNN have said the mana becomes too wonky to included both hymn and TNN, but it seems like maybe that is not the case when you have deathrite shaman in your deck. I think another discussion we should have is Dark Confidant vs. Tombstalker vs. TNN. All other creature slots are fixed but the last 2-4 slots are in flux. Is it metagame dependent or is there one creature that should be played amongst these three cards regardless of metagame conditions?

[KobeBryan]

Glad someone was willing to put this to rest and that tombstalker isn't all too important in the deck.

As i've mentioned before, the tombstalker slot isn't 100% set in stone. It does make it slightly cluttered when you want to use deathrite but you also want to drop a big stalker.

I like the thoughtseize/hymn splits as well since it gives more action turn 2 instead of forcing us to rely on too many 2 mana costing spells. Beefs up our SFM matchup as well to pluck those annoying equipments out of the hand