And here we are folks. Carsten is doing well with bUrg and on 9-2 now. He was on camera and did and incredible good job.
It is now time to reveal his list:
Carsten's bUrg GP Paris
4 Deathrite
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Nemesis
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Bitterblossom
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force
3 Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Decay
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
Sb: 1 Bitterbl 2 Thoughtseize 3 Flusterstorm 1 Red elemental Blast 1 Pyroblast 2 Electrickery 1 Fire Covenant 1 Izzet Staticcaster 1 Ancient Grudge 1 Life from the Loam 1 Counterspell
Yes you saw it first here: NO Delvers, NO Charms in the SB. Wow, what a mad list ;-)
Originally Posted by Sasan
What?
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in the stream you could clearly see Goyfs.
i Love it, no more Checklist Cards :D
Sasan do you have opinions and thinkings about this list? Thoughts about the choices and sideboard plans? :)
I will wait for the final list as I did not catch up Carsten yesterday and today. The list is from Friday. If I know all Sideboard slots I will update the primer and sideboard guide.
I am really really unsure about the combo matchup without Delvers and with clunky TNN's.
Carsten and I had already discussed a Delver-less RUG Delver list before Decay/Shaman got printed. After these printings the project was stopped and he worked to incorporate Shaman/Decay to RUG and bUrg was born. With the recent meta shift towards swords to Plowshares decks with 8 removal spells (Patriot and DnT) Delver never survives for more than a turn. Therefore the new list goes the full control route.
bUrg has not much means to protect its creatures - we have Snares instead of Pierces.Therefore we need hard to remove creatures and use our counter magic and removal only for disruption. The new list is far better than the old one. You can play with 3 Goyfs instead of a bitterblossom. This is a meta choice concerning the Miracle decks that do well this weekend.
Ah, I do not like the removal suite in Carsten's sideboard. Charms seem better than Elctrickery and Izzet S. But will think about it.
By the way, our friend Kai did not make it to day 2.
Last edited by Sasan; 02-16-2014 at 10:11 AM.
I'm interested in seeing the final list :) Is there a Deck Tech somewhere?
Would it be possible to add a section to the primer titled something like "Evolution of bUrg" or "History of bUrg" where you would move the previous decklists when a new list is proposed, with a small description of when each list was introduced and the reasoning behind it (metagame at the time, introduction of a new tech...)? If you always replace the previous list, it's hard to go back and look at older lists :(
Cutting Delver from the 75 is madness to me.
My thoughts are that if you want to go "Full Control" then drop the bolts and go to BUG because you aren't playing tempo anymore.
bug is the is a better control deck than bUrg.
What doesn't sit well with me is having 10 of 13 theats being hosed by RIP.
One of the primary factors i play 4 Delver, 3 DRS, 3 Goyf, 2 TNN is for threat diversity.
I am beginning to come around on some number of Mongoose, and may be willing to give them a go again, but admittedly I have been successful without them.
Like if the plan is to cut Delver, there aren't the same building restrictions and you could play fewer spells and more threats.
After careful consideration I have come to the conclusion that a Delver-less built is not a tempo deck anymore. As the primer focuses on "bUrg TEMPO" I will not feature the new list. It belongs to a new primer. The new list is strong but with the recent decline of RUG Delver it is perhaps the best to focus on improving bUrg as a tempo deck as the format needs a good tempo deck. I hope you understand the decision.
However we can discuss the new list of Carsten in the topic here and I can make a sideboard guide, but it will not be part of the primer.
Sidenote: With the great comeback of Miracles decks during the GP weekend bUrg needs to switch back to the 2 Decay built. I will update the list in the primer.
Well,a small summary of my achievements during the weekend.
Before you ask,i didn't go that well.unfortunately.
On thursday i picked up my fellas MD Ghost, Rainer Bratfisch, big buddy JPA and Holly.
We went to Paris by train (took around 7h so we played a lot of high class casual games like heros vs. Monsters and highlander games while drinking beer, so they were pretty entertaining.
Magic is about fun right?
We arrived at the location on friday, met a lot of friends there and i joined 5 GP Trials during the day.
I won a lot of boosterpacks but didn't manage to get some byes for the main event.
The closest trial was the 4th one when i played against timo schünemann in the semifinals.
Here is the list i played:
German ******** by Kai Thiele
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:13
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 True-Name Nemesis
Spells:29
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Ponder
1 Preordain
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
Lands:18
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:15
3 Pyroblast
3 Spell Pierce
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Golgari Charm
1 Life from the Loam
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
I saw Carsten,Wenzel and Florian Koch playing the Deck without Delver and could not believe that it's a good idea.
(Gonna test the list in future anyway to see how it goes.I chatted with the guys during the event and carsten mentioned that he would go up another step and play 4 Nimble Goose 2 Bitterblossom 3 True-Name Nemesis and 4 Deathriteshaman.No comments on that)
But back to the GP itself.
In the Mainevent on Saturday i went horrible:
2:1 Ant
1:2 UW Stoneblade
2:0 Ant
1:2 Esper Deathblade
2:0 Death&Taxes
2:0 Mirror
At this point Carsten,Florian and me are standing 40.
0:2 Merfolk
Well,that means x-3 so i drop and walk around the tables,Florian Koch also dropped after the same round.
Carsten managed to achieve a 7:2 and proceeded to day2.
Anyway,it was a awesome event ,looking forward to see all of you guys in Annecy (BoM)
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Hey Kai sorry to hear that but thanks for the short report.
I updated the primer with my personal favorite list at the moment and changed the sideboard guide.
I added Bitterblossom as the new secret tech and took into account that we can board out some Delvers during some matches. So Carsten's list effort helped to improve the tempo shell although his list is not a tempo deck anymore.
Hope you like the changed list and primer.
I really can't think of one good reason to take the delvers out of the deck.
Maybe things for our bUrg fellows could have gone better if the list wasn't so drastically changed, or maybe not, who knows?!
this list i liked a lot:
it was unfortunated that no burg made top 16 or even top 8, but we (at least me!) will keep playing, and testing, and also upgrading this great deck, until one day someone wins a GP with it!!
I've been sticking to relatively the same build for sometime now.
Because I play fewer "Shroud" creatures, its necessary for me to run 2 spell pierce to protect my creatures. These 2 Spell Pierce may offer other additional benefits in certain match ups. I've never wavered from 2x Abrupt Decay MD, it may be clunky at times but its gives the deck an out against so many match ups.
One other thing I want to bring attention is the absence of stifles in the top 16. I went down to 3 stifles long ago. I may cut down to 2. The rationale is that stifle is best as a turn 1 play. But our best starts are turn 1 Delver or turn 1 DRS, and so stifle is awkward at times. The results of the Paris GP show its is not necessary and maybe counter intuitive right now..
I also run zero copies of Mongoose and you can see there isn't a single copy in the top 16, the presence of so many deathrite shaman weakens the card in the format.
FWIW My record is 42-10-1
Hi guys, is there any reason Scavenging Ooze is not usually played in BURG? It seems like a pretty powerful card in the deck, and it gets better in the decks that run 1 GSZ in the 75. (I am a tempo newbie, don't kill me.)
Re: Eldritch Moon and Emrakul
The general idea behind the delverless build was to create a creaturebase which has shroud.
Creatures that stick and don't die to any removal are important to keep the pressure on our opponent.
Bitterblossom is hard to kill if your opponent is UWx Delver/Stoneblade.
The same for TNN obv.
Tarmogoyf joined the party again because he is at least (half-) removalproof, it resists bolts.
The Deck kills now around turn 15 instead of turn 5 which i really dislike (why play stifle and dazes in a "midrange" deck)
(One little sidenote to my performance during the gp: i was colourblocked to often for my taste,for instance against merfolk when i had tropical island and misty rainforest on the battlefield and golgari charm,decay and pyroblast in hand.
I fetched for underground sea and drew a lightning bolt...)
Gonna think about the colour requirements of all spells (esp the ones in the sideboard)
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
- I understand the value of the idea, but Shroud themed decks tend to be better in Theory than in practice.
- Bitterblossom belongs in the sideboard, the card is slow and generally what we don't want to be doing except we want to bring it into those grindy attrition match ups.
- Agree the deck has gotten sluggish. To me no one gets the job done like Delver and Goyf. The fastest and most consistent threats.
-I think were a little caught up in the idea that we need to run any shroud creatures at all. I have something in mind for this Wednesday with zero shroud creatures.
Evasion > shroud
The big problem of Goose and Goyf is them being unable to score against a resolved TNN or RIP which were the reasons to start the discussion about other creature layouts. Running stifle alongside of Bitterblossom is an abdomination I cannot support in maindecks. Maybe in Sideboard instead of other attrition-/midgame-cards like Loam/Walker/Thrun
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Ya Bitterblossom looks like a 2-Mana Planeswalker with just one ability to create dudes (like elspeth knight errant +1)
And is probably the best "threat" against miracles.
During august 2013 i played with a singleton garruk relentless in my sb to combat miracles and it was great - altought it got crushed by clique from time to time.
Bitterblossom can't get killed in such a easy way.
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
I must talk to Carsten but I do not see how his list can win against combo. He went 11-4 and I bet many if his losses were to combo matchups.
@Tormod: I agree with most that you said. I already had cut the number if Mongeese in the built in the primer. I like Bitterblossom as a sideboard card (it is in the SB of the primer built).
We must also take into account that Carsten is a brilliant player and can win with perhaps bad lists. This could also apply to his recent list. I don't understand why he did not just have a normal tempo list and boarded out the Delvers versus DnT and Patriot. The fact that DnT and Patriot did do that well during GP shows that it is risky just to build his deck for 2-3 matchups.
@Kai: Because of the color block problems it becomes obvious that we need Taiga and the 4th Shaman. Your list is a bit greedy with 3 DrS along 2 TNN.
@Ooze: It needs way to many green mana to grow quick and then dies to Swords to Plowshares. It is not a good idea to run it in this meta.
Hi all,
Been reading in here for a while and built the deck. I'm a longtime dredge player, but wanted something different. For BoM Paris I had UR Delver (still played dredge on the main event) which I upgraded to Grixis for the GPTs for Paris. 2 weeks before the GP I finally had (almost) everything and I could play bUrg.
So the 5 of us took the train to Paris on Thursday, starting to play magic right away. As I got on last I was the odd man left out, until someone in the wagon told us he had a deck as well. So I battled through Pox until we pulled into Antwerp. There 3 Belgian magic players joined us and we had fun all the way to Paris. Dropping off our stuff in the hotel, seeing the Eiffel tower and dinner filled up the rest of our day. Off to bed for more trials on Friday.
One of us had 2 byes, the others 1 so only Tim and me played infinite trials, where I did very badly. Played Kai however, who was surprised when he figured out I played the same deck, you can really catch your opponents off-guard with this, even if it's a mirror :D. Thanks to him I also added Diabolic Edict to the sideboard. Highlight of the day was me beating LoamPox, which wasn't easy at all.
So after the last tips from Kai I played the following list:
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Nimble Mongoose
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Sylvan Library
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
4 Ponder
1 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Divert
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Submerge
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Flusterstorm
1 Life from the Loam
1 Fire Covenant
2 Pyroblast
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Golgari Charm
Notes: I thought Divert would be cool and it almost won me round 9. But it's too easily played around and it's not worth it.
At the player meet I was seated at the Dutch section as usual (van ..... means we all get seated together :D) So we discussed our match ups a little bit. Others thought I had no game at all against Bloodmoon decks, and I told them I wouldn't be happy to see it, but it's definitely winnable.
On to the main event!
Round 1
Olivier with Imperial Painter
Great, so Moon right at the start. I win the die roll and proceed to counter almost everything he does. Daze for Grindstone, Dismember Painter's Servant, Pierce Moon, while Delver, Mongoose and co eat his life total.
Game 2 I keep wasteland, 2 fetch, charm and pierce among others. He goes Sol land --> Top --> activation --> go. I waste and he drops another sol land. Moon T3 is game, too greedy with the Wasteland there.
Game 3 I open up charm again, drawing one later too. So I cast one to sweep his board of Imperial Recruiter and Goblin Welder, while Magus of the Moon and Bloodmoon get countered. He finds a second bloodmoon, but I put mana in pool and kill it. Then I waste him down to 1 land so his Ensnaring Bridge is useless. Took a while to find threats, but with all the cantrips and counters I had him pretty much under control.
1-0 (2-1)
Round 2
Alex on Patriot
Win the die roll again, but have to mull this time. I get fetch, BS, Delver, Stifle and 2x Daze and keep. Delver, go into waste into me crying when delver gets bolted T2.
Game 2 I counter a T2 RiP and 2 wastelands make this an easy affair.
Game 3 he gets to start and his double wastelands slow me down too much and he takes it.
1-1 (3-3)
Round 3
Halfdan on Shardless BUG
Win the die roll (noticing a trend?) and the early game is mine. But a suspended Ancestral Vision resolves into Shardless Agent into another Vision. He stabilizes on 4 and wins the game.
Game 2 is over quickly as I ride delvers home.
Game 3 he gets to start and he has kept a creature heavy hand. T4 I'm looking at 2x Baleful Strix, DRS and Goyf. Perfect time to have a Fire Covenant in my opener. The GYs are pretty empty, with 1 sorcery, 1 instant and 1 land. I remove the sorcery to which he responds on his turn, eating the only land on my own. Then I blow up his board for 8 life. Perfect :D.
2-1 (5-4)
Round 4
Philip with Sneaky Show
I win the die roll and drop a delver. It doesn't flip for 3 straight turns. But he's stuck on 2 lands while chaining cantrips, so I decide to pierce a BS. Then he drops 2 Lotus Petal for Show and Tell, which I Daze. Delver decides to get buggy and kills him.
Game 2 sees me putting 2 DRS on the board and him playing a Bloodmoon T3. He forgets to fetch an island however. I beat down, discarding lands and finally getting a charm. Try to blow up Moon, but he Forces. That means his Sneak Attack gets my Force. DRS goes all the way.
3-1 (7-4)
Round 5
Damien with Esper Blade
I keep a 6 with 2x waste, 3x fetch and Library. Sadly he forces the library and I'm never in it.
Game 2 wasteland and counters win.
Game 3 he plows T1 DRS, drops SFM T2. I waste him off double blue to prevent TNN, keeping Grudge for the Batterskull. Stupidly enough I grudge it on my turn, tapping my only red source. Progenifish eats me for my insolence.
3-2 (8-6)
Round 6
Jerko with AnT (know this guy from a store where I play legacy)
I joke around telling him I have won every roll today and rolled 11 five times during trials. So I pick up my dice and roll 11. I open up my first 7 with FoW, Pierce, Stifle, Snare, Ponder, Fetch and Waste. I keep him low on resources, but he slowly sculpts his hand. It takes too long for me to get a threat online and he kills me.
Game 2 I keep a similar hand, but this one has a Delver. It has trouble flipping again, but after his mate joins him double delver make this one quick.
Game 3 Delver takes 3 turns once again. When he's down to 9 I make THE mistake of the day, bolting his face. I had already seen Xanthid Swarm game 2. He proceeds to drop it, pass the turn. I topdeck goyf and he kills me while on 6 life. The active FoW I had in hand would have been enough to stop his combo.
3-3 (9-8)
So I'm out of it and it's all my mistake. I decide to play on however, as I could really do with the practice.
R7 I win the roll and beat Junk Depths
R8 I win the roll and lose to Punishing Jund. Another big mistake cost me game 1. He's at 4, with Dark Confidant DRS and goyf, with me on just goyf. I'm at 6 with active library. I draw Stifle+Bolt going down to 2. He responds to his Bob trigger with DRS lifegain which I stifle. But instead of responding with bolt to the trigger I just let it resolve. Punishing Fire and I'm dead to attacks.
R9 I lose (!!!) the roll and also lose the match to Burn. Divert could have won game 3, but he chose Sulfuric Vortex over Fireblast (Clique had shown me the blast) while I was at 2 with him at 5 with a fetch land in play. I had divert+flusterstorm. Pierce would have won this match in any case.
The 4-5 record was a little disappointing, but in the second half of the tournament I made too many mistakes.
On Sunday I played the Legacy event, winning another 4 die rolls over 6 rounds, giving me a die rolling result of 12-3 over 15 rounds. That would have been pretty cool for my actual GP record. Thanks to Edict i also won against Lands that Sunday, so thanks again Kai
The deck was a blast, only occasionally fudging on the mana requirements. A better pilot would have recorded at least a 6-3 against my opponents, so I'll keep practicing.
See you around!
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