Thank you all for your answers, it sure is full of nice people here! ^_^
I'm going to GP Paris next saturday with no byes and I'm undecided on the deck, beign reanimator and UW stoneblade the major contender (though I can build every deck without imperial recruiter).
Reanimator is appealing because it eats other combo and rogue decks alive while having game basically against everything: sometimes it is just too fast. It's also a deck I'm quite familiar with and it's nice to bring a fast deck to a big event because you can rest between matches. However there are decks with so much hate...
UW Stoneblade, on the other hand, is a more solid deck: answer their threats, propose yours and win the game. It reminds me of the fair Magic I played in 1995...
However is a deck that I have not tested much (brought only to a small event)...
Ignorance is strength
I agree, Anakyn. I think I also depends on a few of your sideboard choices but overall I don't really fear reanimator. It's fairly ironic, though, because I just lose to S&T, which is just non-graveyard dependant a+b combo, a lot like reanimator. I think it's the lack of the spaghetti monster. Annihilator is just unfair. After testing I think I have to abandon Spell Snare for the second maindeck pierce again.
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i'm testing a Joe Bernal's Supreme Blade list, but without the Black splash for budget reasons.
here's the list:
UW Supreme Blade
Maindeck
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
6 Island
4 Plains
2 Tundra
1 Glacial Fortess
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Supreme Verdict
3 Back to Basics
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Meddling Mage
1 Flusterstorm
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Swan Song
3 Rest in Peace
1 Disenchant
1 Humility
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
[/DECK]
some explanation
1 Glacial Fortress: No 3rd tundra to pack in. =/
2 True-Name Nemesis: Beater, as i cant play Lindering Souls. Give me the possibility to play like an normal Stoneblade if our oponent dont care about our B2B and/or Verdicts
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant: no 3rd Jace and seemed very good against opposing liliana and as a replecement to Lingering Souls
Want your opinion guys on this list and whats your thoughts on this build with B2B and Verdicts.
thanks!
I don't like the idea of only 6 creatures. Lingering Souls in Bernal's list made it okay but without them the idea is strictly sub-par.
I like the idea of Humility but I can't find room. I don't even have room for an EE or second Verdict without dropping a ZP.
What are you guys best using Clique for? Yesterday I plopped one in off a show and tell and it's trigger just got blanked by a red source into the Sneak Attack they just put in. It was a huge attack on my morale.
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Edit: I've dropped both Jace from my list for the meantime. I put in a second Supreme Verdict and a second Clique. Jace hasn't been good for me for over a month. The best thing about him was that he was blue. He died immediately to Bolt or what-have-you. Moreover, when he didn't die immediately, he died soon via Delver/TNN/Next best thing they could muster. I haven't used him as a win-con since before he wasn't good. Maybe running another (3rd) Ponder would be better than the Verdict, but I think the Clique is good. I ran 3/1 TNN/Clique, now 3/2. Now, I have room in my board for an EE. I think that's crazy good.
Any opinions on my dropping Jace? Opinions on what I added/should have added? I am still running a singleton Elspeth FYI and FWIW.
-ABC
Last edited by Secretly.A.Bee; 02-14-2014 at 06:38 PM.
I've actually relatively recently upped my Jace count from 2 to 3. I still find him excellent, and he gives me wins regularly. Sure, he gets boarded out a lot, but that is nothing new.Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
I'm generally a big fan of Elspeth, but I can't find room for her in this deck. Plus, I think her pumping ability is a bit wasted with TNN. It's a good point about opposing lilianas though. Miracles doesn't like a resolved Elspeth either.
What are you playing against that jace is helping you win?
Edit: ever since I swapped out jaces, I've been questioning my verdict #2. Maybe Ponder #3 instead?
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Last edited by Secretly.A.Bee; 02-15-2014 at 04:09 PM.
Hi Guys! I've played with Esper Blade a bit, and was going to jump on the True-Name Nemesis bandwagon when I saw Joe Bernal's list and it reminded me of Shaheen Soorani's Esper Blade list back from the Invitational. Basically, I LOVE the card Intuition, and this deck gets to really garner tons of value out of resolving it. I mean, Intuition for triple Lingering Souls is sick, but post board being able to tutor for double Cabal Therapy + Lingering Souls is the nail in the coffin against the other control and combo decks. Recently I played a sort of hybrid list of both Bernal and Soorani's list to the top 32 of SCG's recent Open in Nashville.
Here is the list I played:
Creatures:
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalkers:
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Spells:
1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Force of Will
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Intuition
3 Lingering Souls
2 Ponder
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Vindicate
Lands:
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
Sideboard:
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
1 Humility
2 Meddling Mage
1 Notion Thief
1 Pithing Needle
2 Spell Pierce
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Zur's Weirding
The list performed very well for me, with my losses being against Feline playing Spiral Tide, a BUG Delver, and Jund. All of the matches went to three games, and I felt like I easily could have won any of those matches if things had been just a little different. Anyway, the reason I wanted to comment is because I feel the card Zur's Weirding just doesn't see enough play. It does some really insane things, especially in decks like ours that like to attrition the opponents out of the game anyway. A lot of games come down to the opponent just trying to draw out of their under-carded position, but Zur's Weirding absolutely crushes those dreams.
Some great of examples of matchups why Zur's Weirding really shines are:
- We play Lingering Souls! They can pay two life, but these guys will whittle away their life total regardless, giving us an extra draw step for each attack!
- We play a LOT of card draw compared to most other decks; they will very likely have to pay much more life than us so as not to get buried.
- Against combo decks (Show and Tell decks, Time Spiral, ANT, etc) there is a set amount of life we have to pay to completely lock them out of the game! They apply no pressure to us, so we generally will always have more life than them (until we're dead). For instance, against Sneak and Show, paying 16 life would get all of their Show and Tells and Sneak Attacks!! Barring any Through the Breach out of the board they are now locked out of the game.
- Against control decks with very few win conditions (I'm looking at you Miracles...) it will certainly lock the game up. Even better, the way that Zur's Weirding interacts with the Miracle mechanic means that you can pay the two life and force them to discard the card before they can actually cast the spell!! How sweet is that?
These are just a few reasons why I feel the card is good, and with the format being so combo based as well as Miracles seeing a large uptick in popularity it seems to be positioned quite well.
So, wow. Merfolk is reeeeaaaaalllly bad. It's like 90/10 their favor. Wow. I never wanna do that again. Evar.
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Zur's weirding is definitely an interesting card. The main problem that i see with it is that it helps you win when you're already ahead and it may hurt you if you are both even. At 4 mana, I think jace is a valid comparison with the card, but jace just does so much more than zur's weirding on both an even and favorable board state.
In the combo matchups, 4 mana is a lot to ask with this deck (we run no acceleration) and a lot of the games are decided before that point anyways. When zur's weirding is good in the matchup (they're trying to topdeck something relevant), jace is almost as good. Furthermore, jace's -1 is relevant after a resolved show and tell while zur's weirding doesn't really do anything.
I was waiting to respond because I wanted to go to the next tournament so I could get some data, rather than trying to remember. I play legacy every tuesday with 30-40 players. Yesterday I went 5-1 with the following list:
Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Detention Sphere
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lands
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Marsh Flats
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
2 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
Sideboard
3 Meddling Mage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Duress
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Reanimate
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Detention Sphere
2 Zealous Persecution
My matches were: Miracles (2-1), Merfolk (2-1), Death and Taxes (2-0), Sneak and Show (2-1), ANT (1-2), MUD (2-0). Jace was quite good throughout: Miracles was won thanks to him, I won one game against Merfolk off of Jace too (landing him after discard + STP on a board with no Islandwalk lords). My game 2 against Sneak and Show he showed in an emrakul with an empty hand and I had Jace and 3 lands in play, topdecked academy ruins and only had 1 blue source =(. Against ANT on game 3 I played Jace after an EoT clique which showed me that he needed an infernal tutor. I fatesealed, saw tutor and put it in the bottom, then he topdecked another. Finally, against MUD I won both games by playing control until Jace could land, and then protecting him with a TNN while making him draw only lands and metalworkers. The only game where Jace didn't come into play much was Death and Taxes, but I won both of those with equipped TNN
So all in all, he was good to great throughout. I didn't meet any Delver decks yesterday, though there certainly are a bunch. I think Jace is even better with delver decks tending towards Team America and away from UWR (and very much away from RUG), since TA has a much harder time dealing with Jace.
@ForthyThree Was Liliana good? I want to replace my Humility in the SB with her, but I'm not sure, while she is better against Miracles and Patriot she's not so powerfull against Reanimator or Sneak and Show
Also, could you help me with SB against Jund and Team America? (I have an standard SB, Mages, RIP, SoFaF, Fluster, Surgical...)
Thank you very much :)
After debating about going down to 2 Jace to fit a 2nd maindeck Verdict, I opted to stay at 3 Jace and think I'm going to keep it there. Jace helps you win games where attacking isn't feasible/the best option. In the control mirrors, I'd much rather resolve a Jace than a 2nd Verdict. Against combo, particularly A+B cheat-a-fatty, I'd rather have Jace dual win condition and Unsummon package over a 2nd Verdict.
He's good in every game where you've opened a window to take control/comeback, but a creature/TNN (as good as it is) isn't the best option due to your opponent having an active Lilana, etc.
I don't know, he's always been good for me as he's 3 cards that effectively fulfill 9 cards' roles.
The 2nd verdict isn't necessarily there to be the second one. Often I need a first and with only a singleton I rarely find it in time.
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I want to see a 1st/2nd/3rd Jace in more situations than I want to see a 1st Verdict.
I used to run humility, but that was a long time ago. I think that since not all SnT decks use creatures anymore, that has devalued the utility of Humility. Also, at least in my sideboard, I have a LOT of cards to bring in against SnT decks, and I did not have a lot against miracles, so for me the choice wasn't too difficult. SnT decks are actually not a bad matchup once you board in 10 cards in my experience.
I've been playing magic for roughly 6 months and a deck that I like as a concept and playing is stoneblade (blade control). After playing it for the last 4 months I feel very comfortable with it and wanted to add to it, to make my mark. So here is my list followed by explanations. I'm looking for constructive criticism. If you disagree with my choices please offer an explanation rather than just saying that its a bad choice.
Creatures (10):
3 True Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Planeswalkers (4):
2 Jace, TMS
2 Liliana of the Veil
Instants and Sorceries (19):
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Ponder
3 Lingering Souls
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtsieze
1 Vindicate
Artifacts (4):
2 Sensei's Diving Top
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands (23)
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Riptide Lab
Sideboard (15):
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Meddling Mage
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vindicate
1 Massacre
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Manriki- Gusari
1 Engineered Explosive
Lingering Souls: I find souls useful against a lot of things. It helps increase creature and permanent count for opposing edict effects and the imminent Emrakul slap, respectively. It works well with Lily. Most importantly it can connect with my opponent. I feel that a 1/1 flyer is much less intimidating than a 3/1 with protection from a player, which has resulting in opponents not taking the token seriously and losing to it. Also L Souls does not care for Moat.
Liliana of the Veil: Its main purposes is for True-Name and Delver decks because most of the time both decks have few creatures on the board, all of which are actively doing something so it makes them choose their poison. Also good with L souls because now it cost less. Discarding a L Souls is not ideal as I lose half of the cards value but its better than other cards in my hand like FOW food and creatures
Chain of Vapor: I know what you're thinking, "Scrub. Why are you playing bad cards!" Truth is, it serves as a counterspell and a tempo card for my opponent. Unexpectedly Absent used to be in this slot, but I found that Chain of Vapor does a similar thing (though not as good), AND can be used defensively. So I can reuse those Snapcasters, or Cliques, or save Jitte from destruction spells (I'm talking to you Abrupt Decay).
Sensei's Diving Top: I love this card and it does work. Top addresses the problem that I've had with stoneblade decks and that is top-deck mode. Having a top on the field helps me regulate my draws, especially in top-deck mode. Top also serves as a ponder on a stick minus the shuffle ability. It allows me to conserve Jace's 0 and use him offensively. It helps look for answers to tough situations. In all the games that I had a top in play, I was in total control of the game. At first I had 4 tops in the maindeck. It later went to 3 and now 2. My rational was that most matches, I sided out 1 top to make room for the hate. 2 tops is good because i don't really want to see more than 1 and I will probably see it when I need it the most, which is the grindy games.
Riptide Lab: In case any of you are not aware of its use, its for recycling snapcaster and Clique. Pretty much self-explanatory.
Manriki-Susari: Good against any stoneforge deck. If I get Manriki on something quickly, I have a lot more control over the game. I saw this in Alex Bertoncini's Deathblade that top 8ed SCG Providence back in November and adopted its use.
That's all I have for explanations. Thank you for taking the time to review my deck list! :)
Man, Joe Bernal do good work mang. Squish Shardless like da bug dey beez.
Quarterfinals Edit: Did Baugh have any kind of reason to be playing more than 1 Scrubland? 3 in play game 1, just couldn't afford Islands lol? I swear, these guyzez.
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Last edited by Secretly.A.Bee; 02-23-2014 at 11:55 PM.
This past weekend at the Tales of Adventure Baazar of Moxen trial I went 6-2 coming in 12th with the following list. The synergies between Liliana, Intuition, Lingering Souls, and Cabal Therapy were amazing all weekend with my only losses coming to Ross Merriam playing elves (he played well and never gave me good opportunities to get value from my removal) and I lost to Team America which I think if I'd taken a few different lines I'd of won. I beat reanimator, goblins, death and taxes, miracles, jund, and uwr delver.
Main
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Karakas
1 Riptide Laboratory
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Lingering Souls
1 Intuition
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Force of Will
1 Vindicate
3 Jace, TMS
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
SB
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Manriki Gusari
2 Spell Pierce
1 Path to Exile
1 Venser Shaper Savant
1 Duress
1 Force of Will
1 Disenchant
Has anyone considered 2-3 Dark Confidants in the SB to help in the control matchup's?
Miracles is a really though one, when we have to be the aggro deck and we have a good control deck on the other side it's quite dificult to win.
They also help against the mirror and other control decks such as Shardless BUG, BUG "Landstill", probably Patriot and some combo decks such as Painters, Renimator, Storm...
However I'm realising Geist may be better at that job...
Thoughts?
In a deck with 4 fow and a batterskull, some number of jace/elspeth and often supreme verdict, why would you risk it? I mean, if you think you want more draw, it's not like you don't have better options. TNN is just better in the mirror and against BUG. I don't have enough testing against miracles to say this for a fact, but I feel like you would rather just play very tight as opposed to "being the aggro deck." Geist may be okay again but he still has all the problems he's always had.
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