I'm new to this deck and have a question: how often, if ever, is it correct to keep a no-land hand with 2 Lotus Petals that can combo off T1?
Lotus Petal + Lotus Petal + Entomb + Reanimate + 3 random/non-FoW/uncastables
I've kept these sorts of hands a couple times now against unknown opponents and they've worked out, but obviously against any FoW/Daze you would would be in bad shape. Maybe it's less risky on the play when opponent has no land in play (so your only real concern is FoW) although they could also untap + Plains + Plow as well so there's that.
Anyway just curious, I thought this deck would be easy to mulligan with but I've constantly gotten 'weird' hands where I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do.
With all the counters/discard I assume the general game-plan is to combo off with protection as much as possible, and not doing so is kind of wasting a lot of your decks resources/draws, but again I'm not sure what the more experienced players think about this, I'd love to hear.
edit: I'm also curious what the best course of action is against Sneak&Show players. I've read that it's often correct to side out your Show & Tells against them, but the few times I've played the matchup, in G2/3 they have graveyard hate (I've seen Grafdiggers, Leyline of the Void, etc) which I then have to filter through my deck to try and find an out for. I wonder if sometimes it might be right to leave in Show & Tell and cheat in either a Tidespout Tyrant or Ashen Rider to destroy/bounce whatever they cheat in. I suspect most S&T players would go for either a Sneak Attack or Emrakul off our S&T thinking they're going to "get us" but then we remove/bounce either one and carry on. Again, just thinking out loud and looking for advice. I've been reading through as much content as possible but still don't have a solid understanding of some of this stuff.
Last edited by Mortox; 02-22-2014 at 02:14 PM.
If I am on the play G1 against an unknown opponent I would for sure jam that hand. There is realistically, in legacy, only 1 card they could have to stop you: Force of Will.Originally Posted by Mortox
If you are on the draw against an unknown opponent I would not keep that hand because they potentially have way, way more ways to keep you from winning.
Pox
Imperial Painter
Team America
What is the mana-base for running izzet charm? I've ran Dimir charm without show and tells with excellent results. No longer do you fear DRS or Thalia
I usually side in 4 show and tells to completely dodge graveyard hate
Running Izzet charm made the deck slower, but there has to be an optimum mana base to speed things up.
Dude keep this hand no matter what - On the draw you could draw an island to daze, FOW, careful study, or any business. All the opponent can do is DRS, Vial, Lackey, Delver, or combo out. if they daze, or FOW, thoughtseize, you were probably going to lose mulling down to 6.
The hand is basically "I win, if you interrupt I lose" which is far better than "Let me see if I can win with 6, and then Lose"
I'm thinking about picking up this deck. As there are a lot of Death and Taxes around my local meta I'm curious to hear what experienced Reanimator pilots think of this matchup?
Their 3-4 Karakas seem like a problem. During early combo turns do you just go for the Griselbrand anyway (if they don't have Karakas on board already) and hope for the best? Also, which silver bullit is best here? I'm guessing one of either Ashen Rider, Tidespout Tyrant or Inkwell Leviathan. Any insights would be appreciated :)
I run -1 Swamp, -1 Underground Sea, +1 Badlands, +1 Volcanic Island (along with the 4x Lotus Petals) and haven't really had any mana issues with it.
Karakas is usually the worst card for us to see, which is why Pithing Needle and non-Legendary guys are so important. Grave Titan is a huge beating against them. If they don't immediately StP it, they're in for a real rough game.
Additionally I would say, though probably not against D&T, given the choice (ie Entomb) going for Girselbrand without protection should be avoided post sideboard. With 4/7 of the targets all the same, a single Surgical Extraction or worse, Extirpate truly destroys any followup play. In a situation of no apparent obstacles but an unknown hand, I'd advocate for going for one of the single card threats.
Best case is you land a Grave Titan or equal and it wins you the game, same as Griselbrand would.
Middle case is the are about to counter your reanimate or nix the creature using Faerie Macabre, but no worse off than if you went with Griselbrand
The point of the exercise, they nuke the target using a Extirpate and you're glad you didn't lose half of your targets.
And then some worse case scenario where they had nothing, the creature got through, but then wasn't enough to close the game because it wasn't Griselbrand, for whatever reason.
Specifically against S&T, Inkwell would probably be my first pick, Grave Titan as a second.
I'd like to differ. Depending on your creaturesuite I always would go for a flyer since Mother of Runes is a serious problem for us. I have 2 Dread of Night and 2 Massacre in my sideboard especially against DnT but I often find myself in a situation where I need evasion to play around an active mother.
To what do you object? Inkwell's trample moves through blockers at enough a pace as any. It's shroud keeps it safe but from a rogue wipe. Any non-legendary flier would put up just as fast a clock and offer nothing else. Same with Grave Titan, I'd be delighted if they chumped the 6/6 all day long, as long as he attacks and doesn't die, all's well.
What creature would you have me fetch?
Depends on the gamestate of course. Early I really like a Griselbrand, if only to draw 7, but generally I want to have Iona or Empyreal Archangel postboard in the following stages of the game. I don't play Grave Titan but I totally agree that he is awesome in this matchup. Maybe I should throw him in again.
I'm not quite so sure flying is as much evasion as is needed with the popular lists running Serra Avenger at the soldier of choice. They get an active Mom and any flyer really, that will shut off your lifelink and put you in a losing race. Trample does a lot here to get damage through blockers and keep some momentum in your clock.
If the plan is to Massacre the board, that's fine, but that isn't really relevant to this specific line of play, any creature would do at that point.
Has anybody seen the list that took second at Coopersburg?
Nick Patnode
2nd
3 Griselbrand
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Careful Study
4 Lotus Petal
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
3 Ponder
1 Animate Dead
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
/Side
3 Pithing Needle
2 Flusterstorm
3 Dark Ritual
1 Thoughtseize
2 Dread of night
1 Ashen Rider
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Crippling Fatigue
1 Coffin Purge
I was going through it seeing how it compared to my list, pulling my hair out because I couldn't figure out how he had so many more Ponders and Thoughtseizes and reanimation spells until it hit me. This list has no Show and Tells.
How did it do so well, just lucksacked through a 173 man tournament? With 8 basics and 2 duals there appears to be some budget elements to the list, was that the reason for the omission?
I've been trying to find a way to maintain success without S&T and have had poor to moderate results endeavoring. I had begrudgingly accepted the reality that there is no better alternative to fight hate than the workaround of S&T, but this! This may breathe new hope! Unless it was just lucky draws and godhands 8 rounds in a row. Then I'll be sad.
So Nick, if you're here, explain yourself!
I'm curious about no show and tell myself... I'll ask Nick on Thursday I I see him at our weekly.
Today I am become death. The destroyer of worlds. -Oppenheimer
I have been playing without show and tells for well over a year now and consistently do well at larger tournaments. I got 20th at the start of the year at GP Denver, I frequently top 16 SCG when they show up in Seattle and in the past two weeks I have top 8ed two larger (71, 52 person) tournaments with Swiss records of 5-1 and 5-0-1 respectively. This deck has no need of show and tell to be successful. The thing I have been doing is experimenting, trying out different lines of play and different board strategies. My mainboard has been the same since GP Denver (with the exception of two weeks or so where I tested out lotus petals), and it works like a well oiled machine in my experience.
It's helpful not to tunnel-vision with this deck in construction or while playing.
Just my two bits.
hi guys,
Whats the word of gravehate? Namely dredge, the reanimator mirror etc. etc.
Do we just race them, rely on Reanimate to steal what they have, or do some of you have a fave hate-card to stop them with?
Coffin Purge is good because you can entomb for it and flash it back, or use it twice if it's in your hand. Also a headache for them if they only have one counter, you can still get through.
Faerie Macabre is not as good, but better than a second Coffin Purge, you can discard it to hit the graveyard then reanimate for value.
Anything heavier would probably be served by Extirpate or Surgical Extraction, but if your meta is so saturated with Dredge and the mirror that you need these cards, it's only a matter of time before people shift their sideboards accordingly and then you'll be caught up in it as well.
In actually playing the mirror, I've found under most circumstances, the player that tries to go off first loses. It ends up being lots of baiting counters and hand sculpting. Some people have used Dark Ritual or Bloodghast as ways to subvert the mirror and other poor match ups, with various successes noted.
Against Dredge I try and keep up counters for the Dread Return, keep my hand free from molestation, and just get there without too much dilly-daddling.
There's been a couple people on MTGO running transformational sideboards into what is basically a full Sneak & Show combo deck post board, and posting up a lot of 3-1 and 4-0 results over the last month or so.
The lists transformational sideboard cards include:
4 Sneak Attack
2 Show & Tell (to go with 2 MD)
2 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
(also running 3 Pyroblast and 2 Jin-Gitaxian Core Augur. The Jin-Gitaxians are probably part of the sideboard plan so they can be snuck in at end of opponents turn to force discard)
I assume siding out some number of the typical reanimate cards (Exhumes, Entombs, Careful Study probably) while keeping in some Reanimates and either Careful Study or Entomb so it can still function as a diluted Reanimate deck if the opponent doesn't cast any hate cards. Also able to Reanimate creatures after they've been sacrificed due to Sneak Attack if necessary.
Has this been a strategy discussed at all?
Is Sigarda, Host of Herons currently the better choice of shroud creature than Inkwell Leviathan or Empyrial Archangel? It seems that Liliana of the Veil's usage has only increased since her release, and consequently Inkwell and Empyrial are not as untouchable as before. Sigarda's drawback is her small size, and maybe that's not worth it compared to the Leviathan being a decent beater when it's your only creature in the bin via a Careful Study? Empyrial's redirect ability ends up being a liability many times for me, so I am really having a hard time deciding between Sigarda and Inkwell in this creature slot.
I've found Sigarda a top target in a meta infested with BUG. I wouldn't say small size once your butt is a 5/5. Only Goyf is a regular bigger one then sigarda. And since our creatures can enter the BF T2 it just gives your opponent 4 turns to race her. If you're uncomfortable with "only a 5/5", try Grave Titan. Once it enters the BF you already have 10 power to beatdown.
Versus decks with StP inkwell is better than sigarda for the bigger body and islandwalk/trample, which is relevant against miracle (they entreat for two and sigarda is now useless) or decks that can chump block sigarda while delivering damage (patriot comes into mind).
Against decks with liliana grave titan is better than sigarda because of the bigger body, 2 turn clock if unmolested, and provides blockers: decks with liliana have tipically a fast clock (BUG delver) or reach (jund), so being able to attack AND to keep something on defense is big.
Moreover, grave titan can also be hardcast, which in the past has been relevant for me at least a couple of times.
I would play both, if you don't have space in the main play one in the side accordingly with your meta, but I think they are both superior to sigarda in the matchup where you want hexproof or protection from sacrifice effects.
Ignorance is strength
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