Looks good Omni. I'll try to sleeve it up soon for a few games and give you my thoughts. I'll give a report on where my Loam Pox is at the moment as well.
@Omni StrataOriginally Posted by OmniStrata
Deck update! Pox of Future Past! ^_^
Win Cons:
2 Nether Spirit
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Mishra's Factory
Planeswalkers:
4 Liliana of the Veil
Spells:
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Dark Ritual
Pox FX:
3 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
2 Pox
Prison:
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Engineered Plague
Land:
12 Snow-covered Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Engineered Plague
2 Tombstalker
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle
Combining some of Reid Duke's latest builds, old builds, and my own personal preferences has yielded this demon beast of a deck! Many tears have been shed once an Ensnaring Bridge hits the field vs. decks that punch with creatures. Sneak Attack need not apply
The Game 1 plan as can be seen by the prison pieces is designed to kill any deck that tries to attack with multiple threats AND as a wonderful side effect auto sweeps the most annoying tempo/mana advantage cards. Bob and mana dorks can't exist in the face of this much -1/-1. It also has an awkward setup where even the mighty Dredge, unless it face-rolls you on turn 3, can be held back using a single Engineered Plague (name zombies) and Night of Souls' Betrayal. Not likely, but it's there.
Pox itself is considered 'outdated' but 3 mana to hack off 1/3 of your life is just too awesome for me to put down. I'd never run less than 2. VERY dangerous for decks that use life as a resource. [Ad Nauseum anyone?]
8 win cons: The 3rd Cursed Scroll was replaced with Pox.
Game 2 boarding (if you lose):
Vs. Fast Aggro: Plagues and Ensnaring Bridge. Take out 4 Sinkhole, 1 Inquisition, 1 Hymn. Pithing Needle for Vial Aggro and the 5 GY hate for Dredge as well. In which case, I'd consider removing more of the discard since they'll be dead draws by turn 2 or 3.
Vs. Combo: Tombstalker, GY Haters, and E. Plagues depending on whether several goblins are punching you, or Zombies. Belcher can get P. Needled and Sinkholes/Wastelands become swapped out. Take note of your opponent's face when he plays Show and Tell into Emrakul/GriselBrand/Progenitus and you play Ensnaring Bridge. You did Inquisition away his Artifact hate right? ^_^
Vs. Control: Slower game means you do NOT want the card disadvantage in Dark Ritual. The control deck's win con determines what the ritual gets swapped for. Most likely P. Needles and GY Hate may be needed. Don't bring in Tomby, he's too vulnerable.
Vs. Mid Range/Hybrids: Again, Dark Rit is not necessary vs. decks that don't auto-murder you in the first 3 turns, this makes counter-boarding that much easier. Tombstalker is VERY dangerous if you don't see Plowshares threatening to turn them into serfs.
Hidden strat: My Magic Coach who played Dredge for a very long time uses a system where he does NOT sideboard if he wins game one. Best keep your tech like a knife behind your back and crush them game 3 if it comes to that. Counter-boarding I think it's called?
Your deck is mean, very mean. It certainly beats up on TNN decks. I adjusted my mono black build based on it and tweaked a bit for my play style (land destruction land destruction land destruction) I still have to test to see if there is a place for Night of Souls Betrayal in my Loam Pox build as Toxic Deluge and Drop of Honey are good in the side there.
[deck]
Pox
1 Nether Spirit
1 Haunted Plate Mail
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Cursed Scroll
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
1 Entomb
1 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Lilliana Of The Veil
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition Of Kozeliek
1 Thoughtseize
4 Innocent Blood
4 Sinkhole
4 Dark Ritual
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
9 Swamp
1 Verdant Catacomb
1 Cabal Pit
2 Tombstalker
2 Engineered Plague
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
2 pithing Needle
2 Extripate
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 trinisphere
2 Sphere of Resistance
[/deck]
Deck update! Pox of Future Past! ^_^
Win Cons:
2 Nether Spirit
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Mishra's Factory
Planeswalkers:
4 Liliana of the Veil
Spells:
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Dark Ritual
Pox FX:
3 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
2 Pox
Prison:
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Engineered Plague
Land:
12 Snow-covered Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Engineered Plague
2 Tombstalker
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle
Combining some of Reid Duke's latest builds, old builds, and my own personal preferences has yielded this demon beast of a deck! Many tears have been shed once an Ensnaring Bridge hits the field vs. decks that punch with creatures. Sneak Attack need not apply
The Game 1 plan as can be seen by the prison pieces is designed to kill any deck that tries to attack with multiple threats AND as a wonderful side effect auto sweeps the most annoying tempo/mana advantage cards. Bob and mana dorks can't exist in the face of this much -1/-1. It also has an awkward setup where even the mighty Dredge, unless it face-rolls you on turn 3, can be held back using a single Engineered Plague (name zombies) and Night of Souls' Betrayal. Not likely, but it's there.
Pox itself is considered 'outdated' but 3 mana to hack off 1/3 of your life is just too awesome for me to put down. I'd never run less than 2. VERY dangerous for decks that use life as a resource. [Ad Nauseum anyone?]
8 win cons: The 3rd Cursed Scroll was replaced with Pox.
Game 2 boarding (if you lose):
Vs. Fast Aggro: Plagues and Ensnaring Bridge. Take out 4 Sinkhole, 1 Inquisition, 1 Hymn. Pithing Needle for Vial Aggro and the 5 GY hate for Dredge as well. In which case, I'd consider removing more of the discard since they'll be dead draws by turn 2 or 3.
Vs. Combo: Tombstalker, GY Haters, and E. Plagues depending on whether several goblins are punching you, or Zombies. Belcher can get P. Needled and Sinkholes/Wastelands become swapped out. Take note of your opponent's face when he plays Show and Tell into Emrakul/GriselBrand/Progenitus and you play Ensnaring Bridge. You did Inquisition away his Artifact hate right? ^_^
Vs. Control: Slower game means you do NOT want the card disadvantage in Dark Ritual. The control deck's win con determines what the ritual gets swapped for. Most likely P. Needles and GY Hate may be needed. Don't bring in Tomby, he's too vulnerable.
Vs. Mid Range/Hybrids: Again, Dark Rit is not necessary vs. decks that don't auto-murder you in the first 3 turns, this makes counter-boarding that much easier. Tombstalker is VERY dangerous if you don't see Plowshares threatening to turn them into serfs.
Hidden strat: My Magic Coach who played Dredge for a very long time uses a system where he does NOT sideboard if he wins game one. Best keep your tech like a knife behind your back and crush them game 3 if it comes to that. Counter-boarding I think it's called?
i was affected with a sudden wave of keen emotion and excitement when i saw your list because its very, very similar to mine..i too have fashioned my deck after reid's list since there's a renascent of tempo decks in my meta..
i noticed that you're running 2 big poxes with only 24 lands; i haven't tried it because my instincts dictate that i might get mana screwed since i'm also running 2 big poxes..but if you can attest that this 24-land with 2 big poxes configuration works fine then i might just give it a shot myself because having another free slot open will certainly be a good thing for that flex spot..
i'm guessing that the 2 tombstalkers in the board are to be sided in for the combo matchups so you can finish them quickly before they combo off, i completely understand the thought processes involved behind this, but personally; i feel safer having trinisphere or even sphere of resistance in those slots in lieu of those 2 stalkers to delay combo..but i guess its all a matter of preference..
overall, i really like your list, i think its really solid..
p.s.: props to the snow-covered swamps!
I just put this together, just looking for opinions and suggestions.
Lands:
4- Mishra’s Factory
4- Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4- Wasteland
12- Swamp
Total: 24
Creatures:
2- Nether Spirit
Total: 2
Plainswalkers:
4- Liliana of the Veil
Total: 4
Artifact/Enchantment:
3- Cursed Scroll
2- Phyrexian Arena
1- Batterskull
2- Ratchet Bomb
Total: 8
Spells:
4- Sinkhole
4- Hymn to Tourach
4- Smallpox
4- Inquisition of Kozilec
4- Innocent Blood
2- Syphon Life
Total:22
@zeni.
With 2 Crucible or 2 Loam I find I can get away with 23-24 lands, and in fact expect to play Wasteland and Cabal Pit over and over and over...
As far as OmniStrata's list, it works great. Sometimes you may have to pitch one Pox effect for another, but you are really just looking for one or two to put them under a rock they can't get out of.
Yes, when you need a clock to INSPIRE FEAR, Tomby is one of the best. He's also good against RUG thresh and any other deck that doesn't pack 'hard' removal like Plows or Terminate. The 24 land works with 4 Dark Rituals backing the Poxes. T-Sphere or Sphere of resistance drags the game out and against combo, I've learned that it's actually safer to just murder them on the spot. I also don't run Crucible Waste-lock so it's not effective for me to wait. Tomby thirsts for my enemy's Health points!i was affected with a sudden wave of keen emotion and excitement when i saw your list because its very, very similar to mine
i noticed that you're running 2 big poxes with only 24 lands; i haven't tried it because my instincts dictate that i might get mana screwed since i'm also running 2 big poxes
i'm guessing that the 2 tombstalkers in the board are to be sided in for the combo matchups so you can finish them quickly before they combo off, i completely understand the thought processes involved behind this, but personally; i feel safer having trinisphere or even sphere of resistance in those slots in lieu of those 2 stalkers to delay combo..but i guess its all a matter of preference..
overall, i really like your list, i think its really solid..
p.s.: props to the snow-covered swamps!
I love LD myself. I have a Mono Red newb budget deck designed for pure LD. Pox for me is TOTAL RESOURCE denial.One reason why Infest or Damnation or Toxic Deluge isn't included is the "Band-Aid" philosphy given by the Duke himself. I've experienced it myself way back during my budget Pox days where I'd run Infest, but my friend's Elves deck just recovers with Sylvan Messanger and that really sucked. Engineered Plague naming Elves and a Night of Souls' for the rest of his critters pretty much *blanks* everything.
Protection from OmniStrata? I TARGET NOTHING FOOL!
I assume it was stone rains and the like. Were you able to incorporate Devestating Dreams into it?
Hey all,
I'll be playing mono black pox at SCG STL this weekend, keep an eye out for me. My deck is mostly set in stone, but there are some slots, particularly in the SB I am unsure about. In the main board I'm considering dropping bloodghasts for either 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Pox, or perhaps moving 2 piithing needles to the main and having 2 more flex slots in the side.
1 Nether Spirit
2 Bloodghast
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Innocent Blood
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
1 Nether Void
4 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Pit
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Mishra's Factory
8 Swamp
SIDEBOARD:
2 Engineered Plague
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Spinning Darkness
Thoughts?
Once you go Legacy...
@beez
yes, i can see how having a pair of crucibles can offset this much land sacrificing..and cabal pit! how i love that land! i often run a singleton of it even when i'm not running crucibles anymore..i sometimes take it out though and replace them with a swamp or a bojuka bog when i'm running a configuration with 2 tombstalkers because they don't work so well together(same reason why i also took out the singleton spinning darkness main and upped my innocent bloods to 4), and i also found out that with tombstalker eating your graveyard and bojuka bog eating theirs, there's a small chance that you can nerf their tarmogoyf and put their deathrite shaman in a situation with no targets in the yard to eat, though i'm not sure if its worth the occasional loss of tempo caused by the bogs CIPT thingy, if you're not fond of bogs, then i guess a swamp will do..i also feel that most of the time, the demons just render the cabal pits a black mana-producing land that pings you everytime you use it when you don't happen to have an urborg, tomb of yawgmoth in play..
@omnistrata
i'm currently running 3 nihil spellbombs and 2 extirpates for anti-graveyard strategies in my board..there was a time when i felt like i should replace my spellbombs with relics of progenitus but i felt iffy though coz i felt that there would be some situations where i would kill my nether spirits if they happen to be in the yard or put me in an awkward situation where the stalkers can get stuck in my hand because the relics removed my graveyard..
have you ever experienced these situations? or are there no match-ups where they would be sided in together? at the top of my head, perhaps dredge is the only match where you might board these 2 in?
-"the "Band-Aid" philosphy given by the Duke"
perhaps the relics follow this band-aid philosophy more than the spellbombs because if you manage to remove all the cards in their yard at some point using the relic's first ability, you can totally lock graveyard based decks out of the game, whereas the spellbomb's one shot ability can give them a chance to recover..
Again, it may just be my playstyle but I would replace one Bloodghast with an Entomb and a Verdant Catacomb with another Cabal Pit. After you have killed the Deathrites you can Entomb for Nether Spirit or if you have Crucible out, making sure you have some targets for it, Wasteland, Pit or Factory if you need a wincon .I would also consider moving Toxic Deluge to the board for another big Pox. With crucible out you can Pox with impunity. Do some test draws with a Night of Soul's Betrayal and see if that worksfor you. Of course that precludes the Ghasts
however. With no top I dontth ink I would run so many Verdant Catacombs. The 4th Urborg can sometimes come up duplicate, but other times it's just what you need. In Loam 3 is fine. In mono black I still like 4.
You could probably run 3Hymn, 3 Inquisition and 2 Thoughtseize and be fine.
I typically don't run Tombstalkers, though I think there is a good arguement for siding them in against some combo and non-swords having decks in mono black. In Loam a couple of Cabal Pits are WAY better than Tomby. As far as Bog goes, in Loam I wish I had more spots for basic land, and in mono black it is ok sometimes and a bit random. In general I find it an odd blowout against dredge and have helped in the poor burn matchup by taking away the lavamancer fuel and sometimes a recurting elemental. Other than that it is too slow for Reanimate which often entombs and reanimates on their turn before you can Bog it. And against Goyf decks exiling their grave while still having yours is not greatly effective. So to me Bog is a bit Meh.
It uses the new [beyond sinkhole] style of LD. Play a threat on turn 1-2 and then spam land kill while said threat punches you to death. They were 4 Arcbound Slith, 4 Slith Firewalker, and 3 Oxidda Golem. Fun deck for casual play using Flowstone Flood as an emergency land killing card lol. Dreams didn't work since I could just spam flowstone flood. Stone Rain, Pillage, and Aftershocks rocked well.
Where Pox is concerned, my old LD focused Pox ran no hymns, just 1 Duress and 3 Rancid Earths in place of them. It used 4 Epochrasite, 4 Bloodghast, and 4 Frightcrawlers for win cons. The idea was still the same, play a cheap threat that could rush/chump fast turn 2 and then Sinkhole/Rancid/Wasteland them into nothing. I suppose Nihilith or Dross Golem may have worked as well for Frightcrawler.
Got a Legacy event at my local Pastimes tonight! Time to see what I can do.
- Good luck, please update us with a report if you can..
Minor report, I'm not able to get my detailed notebook which has a 'battle log' but I can show some quick results, memorable moments
Round 1 Game 1: Sneak Show, fully armed with Force of Wills and Trop/Volc Islands etc.
TOTAL CRUSH, both games I hit the Tits draw with turn 1 Dark Rit-> Liliana. He doesn't use the Force and never draws it throughout the game. Wasteland/Sinkhole reared their sexy backs and I found all 8 of them in my graveyard game 1. Game went long but Mishra's eventually top decked and killed him. Game 2 was the same start, only he on the play opened with a tropical Island off his fetch. After turn 1 dark rit attempt, he Swan Songs it and gives me a 2/2 that oddly enough, eventually kills him.
1-0
Round 2 Game 1: Nic Fit, his opening DRS was a bad portent.
I barely get to disrupt with Hymns and Sinkholes. Vet. Explorer gets him the mana he needs to drop a Bane Slayer Angel. Deck says 'Feq you Omni' and doesn't let me draw any kill and I die. Game 2 was worse with an opening Leyline of Sanctity and with his land generating advantage, he manages to drop a Sigarda. Cursed Scroll and Nether Spirit and Mishra's weren't enough and I get plastered. Pox no like Nic Fit.
1-1
Round 3 Game 1: Esper Stoneblade. Pox must have been VERY angry with me previous game cause looking through his deck with game 2 surgical extraction should have been an auto-win for me. He eventually gets out a Batterskull after I mull to 6 and get no real disruption. Game 2 was just as bad as I mull AGAIN to 6 and end up with some draw-pass turns 3 times in a row. Pox deck that doesn't impact immediately deserves to lose. In hindsight, I should have boarded in ALL my E. Plagues and Ens. Bridges in exchange for my Dark Rituals and 1 hymn and 1 inquisition. It ran True Name Nemesis...
Some times I find that the 2nd Night of Souls Betrayal ends up as a dead draw and I'm thinking of chucking it for a miser Black Sun Zenith. Turning that Sigarda from a 4/4 [yay Night of Souls] into a 1/1 would have allowed me some breathing room as Tombstalker came in Game 2 cause I KNEW the Leyline would have caused issues. Shadow of Doubt to mess with Vet. Explorer and GSZ made me reconsider it as well.
I'll post the really detailed report later. 6 players total, small tourney, but more have been invited in the coming week or two, looking forward to it. Need to learn next leveling so I can side out my Hymns when Leyline is sure to show [derp]
@omni
-Some times I find that the 2nd Night of Souls Betrayal ends up as a dead draw and I'm thinking of chucking it for a miser Black Sun Zenith.
Its funny you mentioned this because this is exactly what i did last night..actually, my deck have gone through different incarnations before i ended up with BSZ to replace the 2nd night of soul's betrayal which can sometimes be a dead draw..i first tried a damnation in its place but it felt underwhelming, then toxic deluge but running 2 big poxes sometimes made my life so dangerously low so i removed it too, i also tried drown in sorrow and it was ok(the scry bonus is really good), but while going through my EDH deck, i came across BSZ and thought that it plays somewhat like an ersatz night of soul's betrayal at 3 cmc and like NoSB, it also compliments engineered plague so i replaced the NoSB with it..nothing is set in stone yet and i might revert back to night of soul's betrayal..
i'm not sure if its the right choice but i'm going to playtest it tomorrow..we seem to be going through the same vicissitudes with our almost identical builds.
kudos to the SnT match up by the way..oh how i hate the SnT match up!
OOH Drown in Sorrow is a SCRY 1 Infest?!Right now, the largest nuisance that's ever been printed is without question Sigarda, Host of Herons. It's like the ONLY real way to out muscle that bitch is to trade with Tombstalker or nuke the field with a card that may cost too much for Pox decks. They should print a BBB Sorcery spell that board wipes in a very powerful way. The CC alone is prohibitive enough. TNN is a joke but the anti-Pox theme that is Sigarda is annoying. Luckily I only saw it in Nic Fit.
Normally I would be ashamed to allow a three color deck 5 mana to hardcast Sigarda, but Rock Nic Fit version is one of the few legacy to use old fashioned mana ramp. Ive played it seldom but the last varient I played was full of persist creatures. I was lucky that I got him in loam Cabal pit weenie lock when I was low on life, but I remember thinking it an unfavorable matchup. BuG controll with Ancestral Visions is tough to play an attrition type game with as well as it is built to be resilient and full of card advantage that makes it harder to keep them down than other decks.
Hey all, brief update. I went ahead and dropped at 3-3. Had a rough day. Lost to RUG Delver, Omnitell, and Belcher. Beat Miracles, Elves and Dredge. Awkward day and awkward matchups.
Once you go Legacy...
details, details....
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