your 3 drops should be 8 blood moons, 4 trinisphere
I'd rather play more 4 drops than bad 3 drops.
In all sincerity, I think what we need right now is not to figure out a 3 drop, but how to deal with having only 4cmc+ threats, 'cause all the 3 drops are just so... worthless. I'm not sure whether adapting to longer game or playing Seething Songs is the answer... or something else, of course.Originally Posted by Nitrospira
I have my decklist pretty much set, leaning towards the Moggcatcher version, 3balless and songless. I'm trying to figure out the last four threat slots, which are taken by Hero atm.
This deck used to play Sulfur Elemental. Is that not a satisfactory 3-drop? Also, the hellbent version plays Gathan Raiders, with its morph being the 3-drop. When I played this list, Seething Song was great when it was good and terrible when it wasnt. I think 3 is the right number in hellbent version, I've never played the Moggcatcher version.
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I hope you have fun playing against tarmogoyf and batterskull
I compiled a list of potentially playable 3-drops if people are looking for 3-drops beyond lock pieces.
Did an extensive Gatherer search of every red creature that costs 2R. I dug deep for these looking for some creative ideas. There are way too many garbage Gray Ogres floating around. The only remotely appealing options were:
Arc Mage
Pain Kami
Priest of Urabrask
Earthen Goo
Rage Nimbus
Satyr Nyx-Smith
Sulfur Elemental
Splatter Thug
Kragma Butcher
Hanweir Watchkeep
Taurean Mauler
Viashino Outrider
Imperial Recruiter
Goblin Sharpshooter
Depends on what match ups you are finding hard.
Arc Mage can clear away dorks like SFM, DRS, elves, etc, albeit at a steep cost. Jaya Ballard is probably just better unless you're taking out 2 Elves.
Viashino Outrider is a 4/3 for 2R (with echo). If you need more clocks, that seems like the fastest single-handed clock for 2R without relying on other draws. At least trades with 4/4 germ tokens. Kragma Butcher is similar, trading the echo for needing to attack every turn, but seems awful if opponent has anything decent out. Splatter Thug is probably the best 3/3 (sadly) but lacks that 4th power for the faster clock and to take out X/4s. Earthen Goo can get bigger but is too conditional on you hitting multple red sources or having a Moon effect stick.
Satyr Nyx Smith can make an army quickly if the opponent is locked out for a few turns but absolutely sucks if they can establish any board. Meh.
Rage Nimbus is interesting. If you don't need a clock but want to be able to deal with your opponent's creatures, it blocks and takes out (or trades with) pretty much everything in the format. You can lure dorks (e.g. Thalia, Bob, unflipped Delver, spirit tokens) to suicide into it or force dorks with abilities (e.g. Mom, DRS, Lavamancer) to use them right away. At least on paper I think it would play a non-awful control role.
Watchkeep might be OK. Blocks Goyf often. May flip. Beats Batterskull. Seems pretty conditional.
Sharpshooter seems good at least SB in the Moggcatcher builds.
Sulfur Elemental SB against Death and Taxes and Esperblade?
Taurean Mauler has already been discussed heavily. Some like, some don't.
Imperial Recruiter might just be the best 3-drop though. Given how absolutely terrible red's 2R creatures are (other than Magus and SSG), the best thing may to be either to tutor for a good 4-drop (e.g. Moggcatcher) or tutor for SSG if you have a great 4-drop but no sources to cast it or tutor for Magus if you have no lock piece out. Sadly this is less optimal outside Goblin builds.
Allowing 1RR that opens up not only Jaya Ballard but also:
Mindsparker
Kruin Outlaw
I tried playing Werewolf Stompy with Hanweirs, Kruins and Instigator Gangs (and Imperial Recruiters). I found it really smashed faces sometimes and really sucked other times. It's really conditional on you drawing a 2nd Mountain and having enough lock pieces to prevent opponent from ever casting 2 spells in a turn. I don't know if Red Stompy needs any more conditionality....
Mindsparker seems pretty strong. Better body than Splatter Thug (also 3-power first strike but can block) albeit worse mana cost. Ability sounds pretty amazing against a lot of decks. Potential?
Otherwise, IMO the best 3-drop is a lock piece or a Mountain to cast a 4-drop...
Basically what FTW said. I'd rather have more mana to cast a 4 drop than a 3 drop. Unless that 3 drop is tutoring for moggcatcher and chumping a goyf/batterskull. Our second turn should be used to cast lock pieces. 3rd turn you should have 4 mana to cast a strong creature. Anyways, over in the elves thread Julian got 1st/~150 in a legacy side event at the GP. Finals (6th round)...against dragon stompy! Apparently he played Arc-Slogger, Rakdos Pit Dragon, Stormbreath Dragon, Koth of the Hammer, Gathan Riders. A pretty big mix of stuff. So yea, nice to see dragon stompy putting up a result! :))
Not sure it was a "result", since from his report, Julian said it was just round 6, not finals... Anyways, DS lost to elves.. I mean....
Back on topic, I would never play Imperial Recruiter. We need impactful cards, not more slowing down. Talking about mountains, how about 21st land?
Not sure if there was a top8...going in to round 6 he was 5-0 so at least that says something.
Don't forget about Gathan Raiders in that 3 drop slot. He's probably the best beater for that mana cost.
Also, Stormbreath seems to be a popular guy these days. Maybe I'll give it a look and see how it plays, possibly with Bonfire of the Damned. I think I have an old list that ran Thundermaw a few pages back. Could be a good place to start.
The build I'm running atm wants to keep a few cards in hand, such as Stone Rain and Stingscourger. I don't see the need for Bonfire, there isn't much swarming in the format atm.
As for Stormbreath, yes he must be great. Thundermaw, not so much: if you're gonna spend 5 mana on a threat, it better be resilient.
Stormbreath dragon cast with cavern of souls is the most resilient threat we have..... can't be countered, survives bolt swords and decay.... the problem is always the same, it costs 5 wich pretty much forces to run seething song.
Hello, I played dragon stompy on gp paris and this is a small report
Main Deck:
3x Arc-Slogger
1x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Koth of the Hammer
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Gathan Raiders
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Blood Moon
3x Trinisphere
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Seething Song
4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain
SideBoard:
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Tormod's Crypt
4x Angel of Despair
3x Pyrokinesis
Main Event
So let's see how well I can remember based on my life total notes.
Match 1: Reanimator
G1: Turn two griselbrand I concede
G2: Turn 1 Tormod's crypt slows him down, he goes with show and tell I show angel and kill him the turn after.
G3: I had tormod's crypt is all I can remember
2-1 (1-0)
Match 2: Esper Miracles??
G1: Koth does work, koth goes ultimate, second koth comes into play
G2: Turn 2 Blood moon he casts lim-duls vault goes 7 life in and finds plains, swamp, vindicate. Dies a turn or two after casting vindicate.
2-0 (2-0)
Match 3: Sneak and Show?? Might be mixing match 4 and 3
G1: I win, cant remember anything
G2: I lose, can't remember anything
G3: He mulligans to 5 and keeps an all 1 casting cost hand, I have turn 1 chalice for 1 he doesn't do much for the rest of the game
2-1 (3-0)
Match 4: UWR Delver?? Might be mixing match 4 and 3
G1: Blood moon does work I win
G2: I go blood moon he fetches a basic plains and casts stoneforge mystic getting sword of fire and ice. I lose
G3: I go turn 2? blood moon he has scalding tarn gets a basic island, doesn't do much for the rest of the game
2-1 (4-0)
Match 5: Belcher
G1: He wins die roll, lot's of goblins I lose
G2: I have turn 1 chalice for 0, he shows a hand with no 0 casting cost spells and gets lots of goblins turn 1, I lose
0-2 (4-1)
Match 6: TES
G1: I go blood moon and chalice for 1, he concedes I only see volcanic island so I have no idea what he is playing.
G2: He casts blind cabal therapy names chalice of the void and hits, I got early pit dragon he goes goblins and wins
G3: Cant remember much but he goes goblins and I lose
1-2 (4-2)
Match 7: Red MUD
G1: I have turn 1 Stormbreath dragon, he gets goblin welder going when he is at low health. I cast arc-slogger to finish the game
G2: After mulligan I have 2x revoker 2x city of traitors and something hand, he goes t1 welder, I go revoker on it, he goes turn 2 grim monolith, I revoker it, he goes t3 metal worker, I can't stop it, he wins turn 4
G3: I keep good hand, can't remember exactly what it was, he attacks turn 2 with blightsteel colossus I lose
1-2 (4-3)
Match 8: Merfolk
G1: True name nemesis, I lose
G2: I get chalice for 2 but then he finds vial. He casts true name and I have 2x gathan raiders so I can keep attacking him until he gets vial to 2 and starts putting in phantasmal images as copies of nemesis, I lose
0-2 (4-4)
DROP
For day 2 side event I added sudden demise over pyrokinesis in the sideboard after losing so many times to goblin tokens.
SideBoard:
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Tormod's Crypt
4x Angel of Despair
3x Sudden Demise
Side Event
Match 1: UWR Delver
G1: Blood moon
G2: Trinisphere, Blood Moon
2-0 (1-0)
Match 2: Jund
G1: Blood moon?
G2: Blood moon?
2-0 (2-0)
Match 3: Cloudpost
G1: Show and tell Primeval titan I lose
G2: Show and Tell Primeval titan, I show angel kill titan and kill him before he can get anything more done
G3: A turn or two before he can hand cast primeval titan I top deck magus of the moon, cast it and he has no basics
2-1 (3-0)
Match 4: BUG Delver? Not sure if it was delver
G1: Blood moon
G2: He has lot's of ways to stop blood moon, after using them on trinisphere, blood moon, phyrexian revoker, I'm finally able to resolve a blood moon and I win
2-0 (4-0)
Match 5: Jund
G1: T1 Blood moon he concedes
G2: I get early Arc-slogger, he has pithing needle for it. I get a second arc-slogger and the board stalls, me with arc-slogger him with tarmogoyfs. Eventually he decays chrome mox which gets tarmogoyfs big enough to defeat arc-slogger. I get pit dragon, on my last turn I top deck mountain, give fliyng to pit dragon and cast seething song pumping it with 5 dealing 16 damage which is exactly enough.
2-0 (5-0)
Match 6: Elves
G1: Blood moon, chalice 1 and chalice 2, arc-slogger I win
G2: I keep a 6 card hand with mountain, simian spirit guide, seething song, arc-slogger, sudden demise. A few turns later no land but a second sudden demise, I use sudden demise with spirit guide to kill a few elves, I find a second mountain, then I use the second sudden demise again for 1 kill a few elves. Few turns later he gets graterhoof I lose
G3: I mulligan to 5, keep hand with 2 mountain can't get to 3 mana until he get's progenitus and I lose
1-2 (5-1)
Deck choice was really good, would play it again, Stormbreath dragon is the worst card in the deck. After making the sudden demise change after main event wouldn't really change anything, except replace stormbreath dragon if I found something I liked..
So, you're THAT guy...
Hello everyone, first time writing about Dragon Stompy but a lot of effort and testing put in it.
I came up with a very solid list that is a big hoser to most Tier 1 and 2 of the format. Even though the skeleton of the deck is merely a goblin stompy, I worked to avoid as much as possible the "all in" approach and I headed to a more stable and controllish build, with some sort of manipulation. Here's the list with explanations:
Lands [19]:
11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
Creatures [27]:
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Colos Yearling
Spells [14]:
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
2 Sudden Demise
Sideboard [15]:
3 Trinisphere
3 Anarchy
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Sudden Demise
No Trinisphere in the maindeck! That's right! I don't think it's as powerful as other cards we have maindeck. It is an autowin against Combo and some other blue decks, BUT it's not a threat per se hence stealing space to other things that could actually make us win!
Yes Imperial Recruiter! I was talking about a more controllish and STABLE version: here's your "how". Thanks to him you can tutor any single creature in the deck, also virtually upping your Blood Moon counter to 12. One of the biggest issues this card is able to solve (more than tutoring Moggcatcher for the win or other silver bullets) is fixing your mana. Do you remember the times when Dragon Stompy loses to himself because you didn't have that second red mana? well, get a Simian Spirit Guide and your day will get better. It may seem a waste, but it won me several games.
Colos Yearling, Do you like this card? I must say I learned to love him. It's my secret tech to win stalls, dropping an unblockable (8 moon effects + 4 tutors) critter who can get big. It looks bad and I considered already other possibilities like Dragon Egg, Basalt Gargoyle, Granite Gargoyle, Dragon Whelp, Furnace Whelp, Flame-Wreathed Phoenix, Fledgling Dragon, Lightning Dragon and so on. While among the 3-drops Colos is probably the best, it is debatable wether something like Furnace Whelp or Lightning Dragon could work better but, from my experience on the field, I can say that that one single mana does make a difference.
Sideboard and some maindeck choices (Sudden Demise) depend on my local meta, but I am open to any further explanation.
If you are interested I'll post matchups analysis later!
If you are spending 2R for mountainwalk, did you consider Goblin King? It can be fetched with Moggcatcher and would give most of the team mountainwalk, too.
"If magic is your crutch, cast it aside and learn to walk without it." —Teferi
Why the Anarchy? Doesn't Sudden Demise destroy death and taxes? Or is there white stax in your meta? lol
nice list "sderenatore", if you had to put the sphere mb what woudl you cut?.
Anyone think tha cavern of souls are ok in a mothematic type deck
Last edited by Zorker; 02-25-2014 at 11:16 AM.
Well it's hard to say, cause I honestly think they are good only against combo and decks with a lot of permission. However, if your facing many of these decks i would cut:
-2 Sudden Demise and move the to sideboard
-1 Siege-gang Commander
-1 Phyrexian Revoker depending on your meta (many delver decks) you could cut 2 revokers and leave the 2 commanders in the list
I personally don't feel the need of cavern of souls, also remember that the second red mana (in some cases one single red mana) is often vital and you don't want to find yourself regretting not having a mountain cause you don't have goblins or humans in hand, so it's doable but risky and not synergic with your 8 Blood moon :)
Thanks for clearing that up, i asked because most of my meta is filled with control or pseudo control(stoneblade) and most of the time is frustrating not resolving a spell.
Trinisphere and cos were a band aid for that problem, i'm going to playtest this list with a 61st card Koth of the hammer he's very nice XD.
Ps: i'll play this because i have almost all the cards the notable exception: Goblin settler( whe i ask about this card to dealers i got a blank stare), and the imperial recruiter( too expensive)
People say there aren't any good 3drops but Goblin Matron is a three drop, but that's only if you're running the goblin build.
What if, to increase consistency, we play imperial recruiter and goblin matron? It becomes decent if you're running the silver bullet creatures (Scrapper, Sharpshooter, etc.)
Anyway, a thought:
Commit to the G
12 Mnt
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Mood
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Moggcatcher
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Goblin Settler
4 Imperial Recruiter
2 Goblin Matron
I like the idea of being able to "draw cards" with the recruiter and matron. Sometimes you throw out a 3sphere or moon on turn 1 and your opponent stumbles and then you awkwardly sit there until you get til 4 mana and they sometimes catch up. Creatures have also gotten much better. A 5/5 groundpounder for 3 isn't enough anymore and racing them with a dragon may not be enough either.
My current list is this but
-4 recruiter
-2 goblin matron
+4 koth
+2 rakka mar
I used to not be so impressed with goblin settler in the goblins build, but it is so backbreaking for an opponent with trinisphere in play. Especially since lands and jund lands have become popular it's nice to have something for their singleton basic forest.
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