[Deck] Manaless Ichorid

[gato con botas]

Holly you can put since you use the sideboard? That you extract and that you put

[Barsoom]

I want to ask, what's the difference between Contagion and Sickening Shoal? it's just a personal preference or more? i saw you used 4x Contagion Hollywood.

[Michael Keller]

Contagion is much better against Elves and other fast aggro. It's also awesome with your own creatures.

@FF: I felt compelled to fun two Faeries main as a compliment to the sideboard, in addition to the reality that there were multiple Reanimator decks present at this event.

Having that utility and the creatures for Ichorid and Shadow was quite helpful. Griselbrand, even as a Dread Return target, was useful filling that alternate role. Faerie was fine and I liked it a lot.

[gato con botas]

In a metagame where there does no exist reanimator that it uses before putting faeires of main?

[slave]

Well done Hollywood.
Cheers for the kind words.
I had a feeling Chancellor was getting the cut > I did the same last time I took the deck out after getting the blue side in there.

Contagion is much better against Elves and other fast aggro. It's also awesome with your own creatures.

Second that.
I prefer Contagion over Black Shoal > has much better art, can possibly take out 2 creatures, or just blunt their attackers. This last part is especially important given we have Bridges to protect > so simply cutting their balls off, instead of killing them can potentially be betterer.

[ahg113]

Well done Hollywood.
Cheers for the kind words.
I had a feeling Chancellor was getting the cut > I did the same last time I took the deck out after getting the blue side in there.


Second that.
I prefer Contagion over Black Shoal > has much better art, can possibly take out 2 creatures, or just blunt their attackers. This last part is especially important given we have Bridges to protect > so simply cutting their balls off, instead of killing them can potentially be betterer.

I think the only corner case for picking Shoal over Contagion is that you face a lot of Elesh Norn, or Scavenging Ooze. Otherwise, Contagion offers much more flexibility.

[P-E]

Contagion allows your ichorids to survive a terminus too ^^

[gato con botas]

Good I do not have leyline can use unmask?

[slave]

Good I do not have leyline can use unmask?

Actually I'm kinda interested... I don't have them either.

For you guys who run them, how useful are they, really?
And how often do you side them in, excluding the Burn matchup?

[Michael Keller]

Actually I'm kinda interested... I don't have them either.

For you guys who run them, how useful are they, really?
And how often do you side them in, excluding the Burn matchup?

Leyline has game against the aforementioned Burn, Storm, discard-laden decks, Bojuka Bog, Crypt, Relic, Nihil Spellbomb, Intuition, Grindstone, Helm of Obedience, Goblin Charbelcher, etc.

It has a wide array of utility and is a bitch to deal with, largely because decks don't anticipate it or bring in cards to destroy it. It's a card that either has to be dealt with or has to be played around - both completely altering the strategy of opponents unprepared for it. In my experience, it's better than Mindbreak Trap (against Storm) because you don't want to open yourself up to discard, which will make it useless. When you run out a Leyline, your opponent has to play around it. Giving this deck a few turns while your opponent durdles can get ugly for them in a hurry.

I know Empty the Warrens exists, but your opponents will almost always have to obtain it with Ad Nauseam, Burning Wish or Infernal Tutor. And with multiple counterspells in the deck to back the card's power up - that's easier said than done.

Faerie Macabre and Leyline of Sanctity provide a blanket of security I love having when I see them to start the game off with. Most decks just can't afford to give Manaless >2 turns because of its raw power.

[carefulmug]

@ gato con botas

Chancellor of the Annex is also a cheap, suitable alternative for Leyline.

It is good in multiples, it is a reasonable Dread Return target, it is not a functional -1 from your opening hand, and it helps to enable Nether Shadow.

[Mr. Froggy]

Leyline has game against the aforementioned Burn, Storm, discard-laden decks, Bojuka Bog, Crypt, Relic, Nihil Spellbomb, Intuition, Grindstone, Helm of Obedience, Goblin Charbelcher, etc.

It has a wide array of utility and is a bitch to deal with, largely because decks don't anticipate it or bring in cards to destroy it. It's a card that either has to be dealt with or has to be played around - both completely altering the strategy of opponents unprepared for it. In my experience, it's better than Mindbreak Trap (against Storm) because you don't want to open yourself up to discard, which will make it useless. When you run out a Leyline, your opponent has to play around it. Giving this deck a few turns while your opponent durdles can get ugly for them in a hurry.

I know Empty the Warrens exists, but your opponents will almost always have to obtain it with Ad Nauseam, Burning Wish or Infernal Tutor. And with multiple counterspells in the deck to back the card's power up - that's easier said than done.

Faerie Macabre and Leyline of Sanctity provide a blanket of security I love having when I see them to start the game off with. Most decks just can't afford to give Manaless >2 turns because of its raw power.

I once played vs Storm, it was game 2 (or 3, can't recall), he Probes my hand which consists of some random useless cards except for Trap. He has discard in his hand, but doesn't play it (didn't notice my Trap I guess). After that he proceeds to go off, cast a million spells, Tendrils me I respond with a smile, Mindbreak Trap. :)

I know its not a real win since he had the game if he hadn't missed my card, but it was still really funny. :)

[slave]

Lucky play Frogster. That's a mindsnap...
And thanks for that Hollywood.

Went to local last night for some legacy. Wierd night... wierd night.
Running Force in the main, sideboard was;
4 Shoal, 4 Faerie, 4 Contagion, 2 Unmask, 1 Trap
Unmask didn't do much for me, but I thought I'd try it out with the blue side, and to be honest, storm was about the only matchup where I was desperate to draw it.

Went 3-2
2-1 Death and taxes - He was playing Spirit of the Labyrinth in from the side. Ha ha, he thought it would stop me dredging. This really surprised me from someone with a very expensive deck!
1-2 GW Maverick - Game 1 he plays DRS, GSZ for Ooze then topdecks a Bojuka Bog, we had a laugh about it. End up losing to a sea of hate maindeck. He had that silly Spirit of the Labyrinth too?!?
0-2 Charbelcher - .... lost quickly. Stupid storm.
2-0 Manaless Dredge Mirror!!! Well Hello Stranger. 2-0 I had a Faerie in hand game1, game2 was over quickly.
2-1 WU Miracles - Won game1 quick, game 2 and 3 = Terminus, RiP. Game 3 opening hand, 2 SHoal, Probe, 2 Narc, 2 Dredger, take a guess what happened...

I kept a note of the successful counters too > 7 total;
RiP x3, Ooze x1, GSZ x1, Entreat the Angels x1, Red elemental blast x1
Only one game I saw hate that wasn't RiP.
(I thank LED-Dredge for playing Chain of Vapor to discourage Grafdiggers Cage. Kudos.)

Caught up with my manaless mirror afterwards, he went 4-1 with green side dryad arbor, silence, claim, trap, unmask etc.
He had soooo many questions about the blue side....

The deck felt killer, but I just got stomped in a few games. I exiled blue cards a lot... really liking this blue sideboard.
I think Probe's usefulness is getting better with a blue counter plan > being able to see their hand and judge what our best course of action is just screams *win*.
...and I'm no longer terrified to mulligan.

[Thrasher]

Playing Fow's there seems a good choice, that maverick was overloading with dangerous stuff!
Belcher shouldn't be that bad, it has no protection, i guess you've just been unlucky not drawing counters.


By the way, contagion vs Shoal: Contagion is most of the times better, in my latest list i have 1 Sickening Shoal just because it deals with Elesh Norn and Scavenging Ooze, and since i was going to play it in a big tournament, i wanted my build to be as flexible as possible.

Aaand i'm done with my exams, finally i'll get some dredges going at tournaments!

[slave]

Playing Fow's there seems a good choice, that maverick was overloading with dangerous stuff!
Belcher shouldn't be that bad, it has no protection, i guess you've just been unlucky not drawing counters.

Yeah, I think so too. Force in the main just makes sense the more I think about it.

The Mav guy I know pretty well, he knows my deck too. I did manage to counter quite a bit from this matchup. It surprised him a bit!
I was hoping he was playing his Reanimator deck, cos I'm keen to test against it, but as soon as he played a Savannah T1 > "Well, bugger me..."

The belcher matchup was a bit crappy, I misplayed a little. I could've mulled I guess, but mulling for a counter and not finding one against a T1/2 clock?
I'm curious > how would you guys have approached this scenario???

[Thrasher]

Force is definitely good if there are a lot of decks like the ones you faced this time. It's just a matter of metagame, imho.

Anyway, vs belcher i would mull every hand without a counter or a gitaxian/street wraith/phant. We wouldn't win anyway without those.

[Michael Keller]

Unless of course you had a Leyline to crush their Belcher dreams. That with counter-magic is too much. It's actually worth a mull with a weak hand.

Also, how did you beat the Manaless player with a Faerie game one if you have four in your board? Or did I misread that?

[Mr. Froggy]

Also, how did you beat the Manaless player with a Faerie game one if you have four in your board? Or did I misread that?

I was wondering the same thing..

[laserstone]

Quick aside, brief question:

What targets in manaless are the most crippling when surgical'd? I play both with and against this deck, but haven't had much experience doing either (new to Legacy).

[JPoJohnson]

Quick aside, brief question:

What targets in manaless are the most crippling when surgical'd? I play both with and against this deck, but haven't had much experience doing either (new to Legacy).

Personally I would say Narcomoeba. It's really hard to do much without them if they get extracted before you do anything.

Edit: The only reason I say Narcomoeba is because it slows down the plan quite a bit if you have to rely on just Ichorid. Sure there's no one card that can get extracted to beat the plan, but I feel it's a big burden to get it removed.