All B/R update speculation.

[Dice_Box]

If you think green does not have backbreaking card draw, my elves deck would like a word.

[JPoJohnson]

If you think green does not have backbreaking card draw, my elves deck would like a word.

And Enchantress

[Dzra]

Is this the scenario where Sneak and Show is a skill testing deck and Elves is for dummies.

Dear Strawman, obviously Sneak and Show is one of the derpier Blue decks whereas Elves is essentially a mono-Green Storm deck. Jund, Pox, Belcher, Fish, and Burn for example are much less skill-dependent and much more draw-and-matchup dependent. For example, the main skill requirement for playing Jund is being able to properly sequence your spells. Proper sequencing is just one of the many requirements for playing the average Blue "good stuff" deck, and those decks are not even that skill-intensive when compared to decks like ANT, Miracles, High Tide, and Elves. Not all of the skill-intensive decks play Brainstorm and not every deck playing Brainstorm is terribly skill-intensive, but there is certainly a positive correlation.

The people arguing against banning Brainstorm are arguing that ubiquity is not a bannable offense. If it were Force would be equally bannable, and no one wants that. Once you dispense with ubiquity as a reason for banning, you have to actually consider why it's ok for everyone to be playing Force, but to have them playing Brainstorm alongside Force is a problem.

Yes.

In the case of Brainstorm, you may let Maverick or something similar come back, but why would anyone play that deck when they could play UWR or BUG Delver?

And yes. There's no reason to suggest that a ban on Brainstorm would result in any fair decks other than TNN midranged decks becoming more dominant.

I find this pretty amusing since I am the only person at all who has provided any objective data.

No one is disputing your data, but the only thing you've shown us is that Blue is the most popular color (albeit by a decent margin) and that Brainstorm is a very popular card in Blue (almost equal to that of Force and within a hair's breadth from Ponder, Spell Pierce, and Daze).

[Barook]

But I think it's telling that when it comes to color-appropriate stack interaction, Orim's Chant, Silence, and Abeyance are about as good as it gets, and they're essentially unplayed despite being backbreaking if resolved against combo and, particularly in Chant's case, not bad against a lot of other decks.

Other colors could easily have stack interaction if Wizards actually tried - but they don't.

Spirit of the Labyrith should have had Flash and probably been cheaper with slighty nerfed stats - imagine it as a 2/1 with Flash for .

Or a red spell/creature that can steal spells - creature stealing and spell redirection are already part of the red color pie, so why not combine both of those effects?

[btm10]

If you think green does not have backbreaking card draw, my elves deck would like a word.

And Enchantress

I'm quite aware of both archetypes. I'm actually a pretty experienced Enchantress player (I'm taking a break since I got paired against combo 5 rounds in a row at SCG Columbus, but it was my primary deck for years). Perhaps I should've been clearer in stating that the nonblue card draw that exists is either weak (like Night's Whisper), engine-oriented and therefore a deck unto itself (Glimpse in Elves, Enchantress), broken and banned (Necropotence), or a combo piece (Griselbrand). The nonblue Tutors are generally better, but Wizards really hates playable tutors and the playable tutors they have printed are generally banned (aside from Enlightened Tutor and GSZ). What's missing is a nonblue cantrip that does more than "do color-specific thing X, draw a card".

Other colors could easily have stack interaction if Wizards actually tried - but they don't.

Spirit of the Labyrith should have had Flash and probably been cheaper with slighty nerfed stats - imagine it as a 2/1 with Flash for .

Or a red spell/creature that can steal spells - creature stealing and spell redirection are already part of the red color pie, so why not combine both of those effects?

Your proposed spirit would probably be too good at anything but 1/1. I think the current 3/1 creature with Flash would've been very good. The red card probably couldn't be made good enough and cheap enough for Legacy without being too good for Standard.

[Zupponn]

The red card probably couldn't be made good enough and cheap enough for Legacy without being too good for Standard.

Ricochet Shaman

RR

Creature - Human Shaman

Flash

When Ricochet Shaman enters the battlefield, you may change the targets of target instant or sorcery spell.

2/1



How about this?

EDIT:

Or this?



Duplicator Shaman

RR

Creature - Human Shaman

Flash

When Duplicator Shaman enters the battlefield, copy target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.

2/1

[Dice_Box]

Red already has spells that do this and no one cares. You can't just put it on a low power walker and expect much will change.

If Ooze proves anything it's that, when you want maindeck hate for something, be imaginative.

[btm10]

Ricochet Shaman

RR

Creature - Human Shaman

Flash

When Ricochet Shaman enters the battlefield, you may change the targets of target instant or sorcery spell.

2/1



How about this?

EDIT:

Or this?



Duplicator Shaman

RR

Creature - Human Shaman

Flash

When Duplicator Shaman enters the battlefield, copy target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.

2/1

It's telling that neither Misdirection nor Fork is widely played. dice_box is right in that you've got to be more creative than that. Maybe "1RR, Instant, Counter target spell. That spell's controller may have ~this~ deal 2 damage to target creature or player."

[catmint]

Spirit of the Labyrith should have had Flash and probably been cheaper with slighty nerfed stats - imagine it as a 2/1 with Flash for .

thank god you don't work for wizards... :)

[rufus]

...The red card probably couldn't be made good enough and cheap enough for Legacy without being too good for Standard.

Doesn't seem that hard to me:

RR3
Instant
Target instant or sorcery spell gets a new controller at random. If the spell's controller changes, the spell's controller may chose new targets for it.
Rather than pay this spell's casting cost, you may discard a card from your hand at random.

[Koby]

Doesn't seem that hard to me:

RR3
Instant
Target instant or sorcery spell gets a new controller at random. If the spell's controller changes, the spell's controller may chose new targets for it.
Rather than pay this spell's casting cost, you may discard a card from your hand at random.

No sense to make it random targeting. Just Redirect/Fork is enough.

[Barook]

thank god you don't work for wizards... :)

I never said that the version wasn't overpowered, but that's the power level you realistically need to put a dent into Brainstorm. At sorcery speed, it does jackshit to an instant for .

@rufus: Random does not make competitive cards.

About spell stealing: I was more thinking about something like this:

Spell Thief
Creature - Human Rogue
First strike
, sacrifice Spell Thief: Gain control of target instant or sorcery with converted mana cost 2 or less. You may choose new targets for it.
2/1

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

No sense to make it random targeting. Just Redirect/Fork is enough.

For a while I've wanted them to print:


Seize the Moment
2RR
Instant
Gain control of target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for that spell.
You may exile a red card from your hand rather than pay ~'s mana cost.

[Dice_Box]

For a while I've wanted them to print:


Seize the Moment
2RR
Instant
Gain control of target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for that spell.
You may exile a red card from your hand rather than pay ~'s mana cost.

I like it, I do not know if I would like it once its in a bunch of U/R decks, but on paper I like it.

[btm10]

For a while I've wanted them to print:


Seize the Moment
2RR
Instant
Gain control of target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for that spell.
You may exile a red card from your hand rather than pay ~'s mana cost.

I like it, I do not know if I would like it once its in a bunch of U/R decks, but on paper I like it.

I like it too, but I could much more easily see it ending up in Jund or RGx beats to deal with Abrupt Decays and other removal. I guess it's also a good supplemental counter postboard against combo, where you can bring in REB and Pyroblast for cantrips and use this to protect them. Not the most effective route, but it's better than what we have now. Maybe it would hit the main things needed if it also could hit activated abilities? It wouldn't stop Sneak Attack or Show and Tell, but it would offer a little more flexibility.

[Dice_Box]

Yea, Abrupt control.... Might be better if it where just a free Fork as a pose to controlling the spell. So the original still fires and hits its target, you just get a copy. In the case of counter wars, this is a good card for Red.

[rufus]

For a while I've wanted them to print:
Seize the Moment
2RR
Instant
Gain control of target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for that spell.
You may exile a red card from your hand rather than pay ~'s mana cost.

That's net 0 CA, which seems a bit OP. Though it would chew up Brainstorm quite nicely, it would make UR tempo decks even dumber.

No sense to make it random targeting. Just Redirect/Fork is enough.

I want it to be effective against cantrips like Brainstorm that don't target. So redirect isn't enough. A 'free' fork could be a fun spell, but I wonder about how good it would be in combo.

Random does not make competitive cards.

Every competitive draw effect in the game (and Devastating Dreams) suggest otherwise.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

You're talking about a much narrower card than Force of Will, it can't have the same baseline CA.

[Dice_Box]

I am not sure it is that much narrower. I mean ok, it does not stop SnT but it more or less hard counters any removal and gives you the spell. That's quite potent. At lest with how you wrote it to a start with, it's a touch over the edge. Also, Redirection is blues thing, cloning is Reds. I think a solid clone is better than a redirect.

[Zupponn]

Powerstone Shaman
1R
Creature - Human Shaman
Damage can't be prevented.
Whenever another creature enters the battlefield, Powerstone Shaman deals 1 damage to that creature.
2/1