[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

[sawatarix]

Snaring a Daze?
Always the perfect play to win a counterwar i guess :D




- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I couldn't resist the urge...



Ok, thinking of the eight burn: would you play Chain Lightning or Forked Bolt/Tarfire?

CL: more power, and there's a world of difference betwen 20 and 24 potential dmg. Can be chained to the dome/Delver.
FB: less power, can kill (up to) two X/1 dudes like Thalia and (summ sick) MoR.
TF: less power but it is instant. Feeds Goyfs, sadly also feeds the opposing gigawerebears, though...

[sawatarix]

4 Chains,otherwise the plan wouldn't make sense.
The Plan is to play a UR-Delver Strategie (if the mu allows it)
And there is a huge gap between 2 and 3 Damage !
Every single damage is needed here.
I have never tarfired or forked bolted an opponent as far as i remember.



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[Contract Killer]

4 Chains,otherwise the plan wouldn't make sense.
The Plan is to play a UR-Delver Strategie (if the mu allows it)
And there is a huge gap between 2 and 3 Damage !
Every single damage is needed here.
I have never tarfired or forked bolted an opponent as far as i remember.

Chain lightning is definitely better to the dome, but I think Forked Bolt takes the cake as extra removal tied with dismember of course for other reasons. While chain lightning kills everything forked bolt does it doesn't allow for split damage between creature _____ (thalia, dark confidant, mother, unflipped delver, elves, etc) and 1 to the dome. It's definitely an interesting strategy.

[carefulmug]

Chain Lightning has the most raw power and, in an unknown meta, gets the nod for that reason.

If one's meta has lots of DnT and Elves, then Forked Bolt is superior.

If you're playing in a field without any Tarmogoyfs and without any DnT or Elves, an argument could be made for Tarfire.

Dismember probably shouldn't be played as more than a 2-of and should be buffered with other burn, counters, or cantrips dependent on playstyle and meta.

After trying the 4x Chain Lightning version I posted (w/ 4 Force) I ultimately switched to 4x Fire//Ice due to the instant speed of Fire and the versatility and cantrip of Ice + its ability to be pitched to FoW. I experienced the most success with this variation.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I play three F//I and I'm not really impressed with them. They're versartile, but very expensive esp. against Thalia.
I thought about the Pierce/Snare split. While Snare can stop lots of annoyin thing (be it SFM, Goyf, or whatever else), Pierce does quite the same while also hitting the things that are gg once resolved, esp. Liliana. You may Bolt the SFM, you may Pierce the SCM's target, you may finish the Goyf with Fire, but there's no way how to stop Terminus, Liliana or Jace with a Snare. Maybe double Pierce is a way to go.

[carefulmug]

I should mention I switched to Fire//Ice because there is a lot of Jund and Miracles in my meta, with very few DnT represented. The Fire//Ice is good against Miracles by tapping down angels, tapping down white sources to prevent Termini and Entreats, and circumnavigating CB itself. It's also a great Goyf tap against Jund and is typically enough to kill a Liliana. Both of these decks also operate on a high mana curve, providing incentive to play Ice's ability on opponent's land.

Ultimately, i believe the last 6 slots are dependent on not only meta, but, perhaps moreso, play style.

[Purgatory]

Upped my Pierce count to 3, not sure what to do with my last slot. Looking at Forked Bolt, Dismember and Fire/Ice.

[rlesko]

Talk of 8 burn thresh has really got me tempted. makes our midrange match up much better and still not a walk in the park for combo at all (with stifles, dazes, and forces) + more hate to bring in post board.

[sawatarix]

Yep,the general idea behind that was to improve the even/slightly worse matchups while still slaying the good ones.
I recommend to increase the countermagic/disruption/whatever up to 6 or even 7 because there are now a ton of cards you want to side out against combo or control.




- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[Purgatory]

I tried running a 7-bolt list back when Maverick was all the rage, and it certainly helped in the match-up to the extent that I killed their mana dorks left and right, but still lost to a turn 4 or so KotR.

If I were to cut counterspells (Spell Snare that is) for more burn, I'd primarily go with Forked Bolt for flexibility, and also because the only thing I can come up with that Chain kills but Forked Bolt doesn't is Painter's Servant, and I have to regard that as a fringe deck. There's also the, rather rare but very awkward, situation where you've got a Delver on your side and can't cast Chain because the opponent has two Rs untapped.

I understand that there's a huge line between two and three damage when gunning for your opponent directly, but I guess I have a different perspective on Thresh then. I don't want to play a deck of linear spells that's included to do one and only one thing. Our countersuit is versatile and flexible to answer a long list of possible threats in the format, Lightning Bolt is an excellent flexible cheap and fast spell, Stifle is one of those cards that has a million different uses in Legacy, and so on. The only linnear cards in the deck are the creatures, which are there to swing for the fences.

To me, the thing that makes Thresh so elegant in my book is the fact that there are so many tiny interactions possible with the deck, each gaining you incremental value and each contributes to the conclusion that Thresh is greater than the sum of its parts. Chain Lightning does none of these things. It's inflexible and sometimes awkward to use.

[Grizzly_Bear]

I tried running a 7-bolt list back when Maverick was all the rage, and it certainly helped in the match-up to the extent that I killed their mana dorks left and right, but still lost to a turn 4 or so KotR.

If I were to cut counterspells (Spell Snare that is) for more burn, I'd primarily go with Forked Bolt for flexibility, and also because the only thing I can come up with that Chain kills but Forked Bolt doesn't is Painter's Servant, and I have to regard that as a fringe deck. There's also the, rather rare but very awkward, situation where you've got a Delver on your side and can't cast Chain because the opponent has two Rs untapped.

I understand that there's a huge line between two and three damage when gunning for your opponent directly, but I guess I have a different perspective on Thresh then. I don't want to play a deck of linear spells that's included to do one and only one thing. Our countersuit is versatile and flexible to answer a long list of possible threats in the format, Lightning Bolt is an excellent flexible cheap and fast spell, Stifle is one of those cards that has a million different uses in Legacy, and so on. The only linnear cards in the deck are the creatures, which are there to swing for the fences.

To me, the thing that makes Thresh so elegant in my book is the fact that there are so many tiny interactions possible with the deck, each gaining you incremental value and each contributes to the conclusion that Thresh is greater than the sum of its parts. Chain Lightning does none of these things. It's inflexible and sometimes awkward to use.

Hear hear!
If you want to play burn, play burn. Burn is, after all, the better burn-deck.
The word "burn" just sounds weird now...

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Another creature that Forked Bolt can't kill is Serra Avenger. Still, I find FB better than CL, unless I'd move to the eight-burn suite. Which I won't, as there's lots of combo in our lgs, and 2/2 Pierce/Snare serves me better.

[Exuberance]

Maybe I'm just so drawn to eight bolts because I used to play UR Delver and attacking with Goblin Guide is still something I hold dear in my heart. Fuck, now I wanna cut Goose and Stifle and play UR with a Goyf splash. What's wrong with me? I should just go back to UR for a weekend and see what happens. I'll probably miss Big Green Dudes and Fuck Your Mana too much. Price of Progress tho. Argh.

[Purgatory]

Maybe I'm just so drawn to eight bolts because I used to play UR Delver and attacking with Goblin Guide is still something I hold dear in my heart. Fuck, now I wanna cut Goose and Stifle and play UR with a Goyf splash. What's wrong with me? I should just go back to UR for a weekend and see what happens. I'll probably miss Big Green Dudes and Fuck Your Mana too much. Price of Progress tho. Argh.

I'm not saying that it's definitely wrong to play 8 Bolts RUG, what I'm saying is that it's not for me.

I live in Sweden, and Sweden is combo-tastic everywhere, so I'm partial to cutting back on Forked Bolts and upping coutnerspells. Actually, I think that playing only 2 Spell Pierce might be wrong just about everywhere, because Spell Pierce is a really great card and RUG is one of the best shells to make use of it.

Also, I too suffer from deck-ADD, I keep jumping back and forth between RUG and BUG.

[Exuberance]

It's definitely all about building for the meta. Those six flex slots are beautiful. Seems like not enough, but it's all you need.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I was playing Canadian Thresh today with a 54 RUG, 4 Fire//Ice, 1/1 Pierce/Snare build.

SB:
Qty Name
2 Rough/Tumble
2 Submerge
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Artifact Mutation
2 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sulfur Elemental


Nothing spectacular happened and I'm lazy to write a full report about the whole tournament.
R1 I met Igor with Merfolks. I won g1 thanks to double Delver, but TNN was my Nemesis in g2+3. Seriously, it's that good with Cavern on Fish and that 1U bad Clone...
R2 I played against Martin who's got ANT (and hoodoo when playing with me). I won despite having suboptimal decklist (at least against combo), although g1 was lost, of course. It was a bit helpful that Martin's got nowhere near the amount of Martin's experiences with ANT.
R3 I lost to Tom piloting aDRS.dec with some three or four colours. G1 he was unable to flip four Delvers for about six turns, and My Mongoose held the ground while I waited until (and if when only just) Bob kills him. He stabilized on three life thx to DRS and then slowly flipped the Delvers one after another. The other games were uneventful.
The R4 match was against Martin on ANT, and Slosh completley outclassed and soundly defeated me. There's nothing like a nice beating from a friend.
Result: 1-3

Fire//Ice was underwhelming. I nearly never liked it and the fact that it can be pitched was relevant what... once? It's too slow, too expensive. Otoh, I met few Goyfs and no DnT, where the split dmg could be useful. Otoh, FB does the same and costs one less, moreover it feeds Goyf.
I dislike the 1/1 SPierce/Snare split. The deck is too dead to combo. Imao the very best flex slots for a blind meta are 2/2/2 FB/SS/SP.
Also, I kinda suck at sbing. But then again, I think that e.g. Needle is pretty necessary, one can beat Port/Vial/Lili much easier with them at ready.

At least I sold some 260 Euro worthy of cards and got a beer and lemonade with an old friend. Not bad.

[carefulmug]

@ Bed Decks

I appreciate your continued experimentation with Fire//Ice, but it works best in a Delver/Jund/Miracles meta. As you have suggested, your meta seems ill fated for such a card. I believe your suggested flex spot combination (2 forked bolt, 2 spell pierce, 2 spell snare) is closer to ideal.

As far as the 1/1 spell pierce/spell snare split, I believe spell pierce should be at least a 2-of before spell snare is considered. Spell Pierce is more flexible, particularly against the storm matchup.

I think the Pithing Needle may be empty space in your sideboard. -2 needle +1 flusterstorm (storm), +1 pyroblast (TNN)?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

@ Bed Decks

I appreciate your continued experimentation with Fire//Ice, but it works best in a Delver/Jund/Miracles meta. As you have suggested, your meta seems ill fated for such a card. I believe your suggested flex spot combination (2 forked bolt, 2 spell pierce, 2 spell snare) is closer to ideal.

As far as the 1/1 spell pierce/spell snare split, I believe spell pierce should be at least a 2-of before spell snare is considered. Spell Pierce is more flexible, particularly against the storm matchup.

I think the Pithing Needle may be empty space in your sideboard. -2 needle +1 flusterstorm (storm), +1 pyroblast (TNN)?

Yes, I'm goign to use the 2/2/2 FB/SP/SS split. SPierce is also veeery god aganst Liliana, while Snare... not so much.
I'm not sure of Needle. Every time I win thanks to it, I have a feeling like none other card would help me in that situation, like stopping Liliana, Port, Vial, MoR or Top. (And sometimes EE.)
Btw, we should really find a solution against Cavern(Fish)->TNN. I mean really, and asap. I know all the arguments about how it takes three mana, etc. , but trust me, Merfolk have better manabase then RUG and they can't be Stifled out of lands, only Wasted. And guess what, we play only four Wastes, while they have some ten Islands. All that they need is to sit on two basics, casually vial a newt here and there, and then play Cavern, TNN, gg.

[BlueP.]

Yes, I'm goign to use the 2/2/2 FB/SP/SS split. SPierce is also veeery god aganst Liliana, while Snare... not so much.
I'm not sure of Needle. Every time I win thanks to it, I have a feeling like none other card would help me in that situation, like stopping Liliana, Port, Vial, MoR or Top. (And sometimes EE.)
Btw, we should really find a solution against Cavern(Fish)->TNN. I mean really, and asap. I know all the arguments about how it takes three mana, etc. , but trust me, Merfolk have better manabase then RUG and they can't be Stifled out of lands, only Wasted. And guess what, we play only four Wastes, while they have some ten Islands. All that they need is to sit on two basics, casually vial a newt here and there, and then play Cavern, TNN, gg.

I played against a similar merfolk build multiple times at my store, with 4 TNN, 4 Phantasmal Images, 2 Cavern and Vials. MU is a total Nightmare, it feels like playing Merfolks this way is a no-brainer. Yet I managed to improve the mu a little via inclusion of 2 Grim Lavamancer's in my board. If one sticks and do its job, only TNN is a problem and with no Lords it's actually possible to race this... card... Still I don't think the mu could become any better, at least I have no idea how (I don't want to pack 18 burn spells and die to all the other decks). IMO the Merfolk Build with the full set of TNN and Images is the most relevant example of how dumb TNN is. Transforming a game between two fair decks into an uninteractive one.