[Primer] Elves!

[lordofthepit]

That's interesting.

I also often draw Progenitus when I board him in. And it's frustrating.

Leo - Did you previously run a Prog main? Only to replace it with the Wurm? It seems like that's the case from your post. I believe most people run the Prog in the side. Since the Prog is mostly brought in for fair matchups, or matchups in which removal is an issue, is it reasonable to replace Progenitus entirely with Worldspine Wurm? If they serve the same purpose, and one is easily castable where the other is not, then replacing Prog with the Wurm seems like an easy choice.

The only issue is Swords to Plowshares. But gaining 15 life is usually fine by me. Maybe that's not a huge issue at all. Also, the Wurm seems much better against Show and Tell decks.

Thoughts?

You cannot play Worldspine Wurm unless you plan to use it to chain Natural Orders.

[danyul]

You cannot play Worldspine Wurm unless you plan to use it to chain Natural Orders.

Of course.

Also, it just occurred to me that the Wurm is better than Prog vs a Liliana or a Supreme Verdict. Hmmmmmmm.

[Koby]

Of course.

Also, it just occurred to me that the Wurm is better than Prog vs a Liliana or a Supreme Verdict. Hmmmmmmm.

Or Emrakul, specifically - while also being able to cast it (as opposed to Progeny)

[LeoCop 90]

Yes, previously i was running progenitus main deck because, as i stated, my meta is prevalently fair. Then i got annoyed drawing progenitus too often and i decided to replace him with a worldspine wurm (well, drawing wurm is not so much better, but at least you can cast realistically cast it). I opted for this change also because my progenitus was killed once by toxic deluge=10 and once by supreme verdict, and i lost those games.

Initially i was worried about swords to plowshares, but anyway i realized that opponents can't hold swords to answer the wurm.... they need to kill your elves with swords or you can fetch behemoth and it's game. It can happen that someone draws a sword after you cast wurm, but it's not very likely, or at least this was my experience.

Currently i play 2 behemoths, 1 wurm main , and 1 ruric thar, 1 progenitus side. Progenitus is still there for decks with swords to plowshares but without mass removal (patriot) , but maybe is possible to cut it. I also run 4 natural order main since i have the option to natural order for wurm since the first game.
Obviously this is a meta call, and i strongly believe that the better choice for an unknown meta is julian's 1 ruric thar main, since our main weakness is combo and we are already quite well positioned against fair decks.

[danyul]

Thanks for your insight, Leo. I think I'll give that Wurm a try this weekend at SCG Seattle.

Now I need to hunt down some sweet Wurm tokens!

[Julian23]

Thanks for your insight, Leo. I think I'll give that Wurm a try this weekend at SCG Seattle.

Now I need to hunt down some sweet Wurm tokens!

Props to you if you just use dead earthworms.

[danyul]

LOL I'm cracking up at work now. Man if I was back on the playground, I might just do that. These days even looking at worms grosses me out.

EDIT: I just had a thought - I'll use sour gummy worms as tokens. That way I can eat them after the game and get a nice sugar boost throughout the day. Are you allowed to use candy as tokens at a Competitive REL event?

[MegaManR]

1st post here.

^I think using gummy wurms would be hilarious/awesome. Go for it (but I'd have token cards or green dice as backup just in case). LOL


I'm going to a local tournament in a couple weekends, and am wondering people's advice on my build. I've read this entire thread, and have played this deck for a while now, gotten quite good with it, but am relatively new to playing it competitively. I went to the SCG Open in Providence in November (3-3 drop), and a Buncha Duals event in December (3-2 drop). I'm taking it back to the Buncha Duals in a couple weekends, and am hoping for better results this time around. It seemed the last time I went there was a whole lot of TNN Decks, some Sneak/Show Decks, a Belcher Deck, some Storm (one that took me out 2-1), and a few other Elves Decks (one of which took 8th out of 80)... Any advice? Here's what I have access to, and what my current build is:

MD:
4xGaea's Cradle
4xMisty Rainforest
4xVerdant Catacombs
2xBayou
4xForest
2xDryad Arbor
4xDeathrite Shaman
4xNettle Sentinel
3xHeritage Druid
1xBirchlore Rangers
4xElvish Visionary
4xWirewood Symbiote
4xQuirion Ranger
1xElvish Mystic
1xViridian Shaman
1xRuric-Thar, the Unbowed
2xCraterhoof Behemoth
4xGlimpse of Nature
4xGreen Sun's Zenith
3xNatural Order

SB:
1xScavenging Ooze
1xNatural Order
1xProgenitus
2xThorn of Amethyst
3xThoughtseize
2xCabal Therapy
3xAbrupt Decay
2xPithing Needle

I have a 4th Thoughtseize, 4th Abrupt Decay, 2 Meekstones, 2 Choke, 2 Tormod's Crypt, 1 Worldspine Wurm, 4 Swan Song, 4 Surgical Extraction (there was a Reanimator Deck that beat me even with a Turn 1 DrS every game), 1 Viridian Zealot...

[MegaManR]

Also, thanks to everyone who works on this primer/thread. It's been my savior when building this deck and learning from you all. Also, thanks in advance, for any advice/tips I get.

[whienot]

LOL I'm cracking up at work now. Man if I was back on the playground, I might just do that. These days even looking at worms grosses me out.

EDIT: I just had a thought - I'll use sour gummy worms as tokens. That way I can eat them after the game and get a nice sugar boost throughout the day. Are you allowed to use candy as tokens at a Competitive REL event?

If you don't want to dig up earthworms, or expose your tasty treats to the viral/bacterial overdrive that is a magic tournament:




Bulky VHS boxes ftw.

[danyul]

@MegaManR - Your list looks good. Nothing crazy going on there. The only thing I question is the maindeck Ruric Thar. But based on the short description you gave, perhaps your meta calls for that. You haven't given us a wealth of information to go off of, but my advice would be to review Julian's Sideboarding guide (it's all in the post that follows the primer) and to always look for additional interactions to take advantage of. I don't know your tournament history, so I apologize if this sounds patronizing, but if you ever feel like you don't know what your gameplan is or if you question your role in a matchup, then you should go back and analyze that gamestate/matchup until you solve that problem. Losing is whatever. That happens to everybody (except maybe Julian!). But the most important thing is to get a feel for the matchups and know what you *should* be doing, no matter who your opponent is and regardless of whether or not they let you actually implement your gameplan. You just need a plan. Once you are comfortable in that space, I think your results will improve.

Also, just try to relax and enjoy the game. I see plenty of people tense up and start to make loose plays because they are nervous. Playing in big competitive events requires a set of skills that is completely separate from your deck or your sideboarding or whatever. Just stay alert, look for triggers/interactions, and calmly Hoof everybody. Oh, also, don't play scared. I'd rather lose to a card they had than lose to a card I only thought they had.

My apologies if all that stuff is redundant advice.

If you don't want to dig up earthworms, or expose your tasty treats to the viral/bacterial overdrive that is a magic tournament:



Bulky VHS boxes ftw.

This is beautiful.

[MegaManR]

@danyul, Thanks so much for the quick reply. Yea, I go back and forth with the maindeck Ruric-Thar, too. I sometimes choose to get him when I really shouldn't, and sometimes he finds his way into my hand... I'll keep reading the primer and matchups again, but I think you're right. Just know the opposing decks and what I need to do to beat them. I thoroughly enjoy playing the deck, and am usually pretty calm, so that shouldn't be a problem. I'll bring my mini Buddha statue with me next time as a calm/good luck charm, too.

With so much blue in the meta, is it worth running 2 Choke in the SB, or does that take away from the already limited spots we have?

@MegaManR - Your list looks good. Nothing crazy going on there. The only thing I question is the maindeck Ruric Thar. But based on the short description you gave, perhaps your meta calls for that. You haven't given us a wealth of information to go off of, but my advice would be to review Julian's Sideboarding guide (it's all in the post that follows the primer) and to always look for additional interactions to take advantage of. I don't know your tournament history, so I apologize if this sounds patronizing, but if you ever feel like you don't know what your gameplan is or if you question your role in a matchup, then you should go back and analyze that gamestate/matchup until you solve that problem. Losing is whatever. That happens to everybody (except maybe Julian!). But the most important thing is to get a feel for the matchups and know what you *should* be doing, no matter who your opponent is and regardless of whether or not they let you actually implement your gameplan. You just need a plan. Once you are comfortable in that space, I think your results will improve.

Also, just try to relax and enjoy the game. I see plenty of people tense up and start to make loose plays because they are nervous. Playing in big competitive events requires a set of skills that is completely separate from your deck or your sideboarding or whatever. Just stay alert, look for triggers/interactions, and calmly Hoof everybody. Oh, also, don't play scared. I'd rather lose to a card they had than lose to a card I only thought they had.

My apologies if all that stuff is redundant advice.

[danyul]

I know Julian has been running 1x Choke and likes it. I think he mentioned that on the previous page. Looking at your SB, the easiest things to cut are probably the Thorn of Amethyst. The SB doesn't have much room for forgiveness, so you will have to make painful cuts no matter what you decide to do. But perhaps you can sacrifice those Thorns vs Combo to help shore up your matchup vs Control via Choke. You already have discard and MD Ruric Thar for the combo decks. Just a thought.

Also, regarding your MD, I just noticed you have 8 fetches and 4 basics. If possible, I'd go up to 10 fetches and 2 basics. But I understand if budget restrictions are a thing for you.

[Julian23]

Either Choke or Null Rod. If I had to cut one, I would definitely keep the Rod as it still has non-negligible splash damage vs Storm combo and doubles in it's main function at stopping both Sensei's Divining Top and Engineered Explosives. Just don't ever cut Needles for additional Rods.

[MegaManR]

Thanks again. Good points, and will definitely plan/prepare accordingly. I'll have to borrow the additional fetch(es)/dual from a friend. Been spending too much lately, though being an adult with a Full-time job makes it that much easier. Ha. Sideboarding in a 1-of that you can't tutor for seems weird to me, but will keep it in mind. Gotta get some practice in with this build over the next week.

I want those Duals!

I know Julian has been running 1x Choke and likes it. I think he mentioned that on the previous page. Looking at your SB, the easiest things to cut are probably the Thorn of Amethyst. The SB doesn't have much room for forgiveness, so you will have to make painful cuts no matter what you decide to do. But perhaps you can sacrifice those Thorns vs Combo to help shore up your matchup vs Control via Choke. You already have discard and MD Ruric Thar for the combo decks. Just a thought.

Also, regarding your MD, I just noticed you have 8 fetches and 4 basics. If possible, I'd go up to 10 fetches and 2 basics. But I understand if budget restrictions are a thing for you.

[danyul]

Well, let's just hope you draw your SB 1-ofs as often as the rest of us draw our SB Progeniti. You will be unstoppable.

[bondafong]

Either Choke or Null Rod. If I had to cut one, I would definitely keep the Rod as it still has non-negligible splash damage vs Storm combo and doubles in it's main function at stopping both Sensei's Divining Top and Engineered Explosives. Just don't ever cut Needles for additional Rods.

What's your current sideboard? And what's your reasoning behind not cutting a Needle for the Second Rod (my personal reasoning is only Grim Lavamancer and nothing else)?

For reference I've been running the following sideboard in a couple of weeks (pretty standard main with Ruric):
1xScavenging Ooze
1xNatural Order
1xProgenitus
4xThoughtseize
3xCabal Therapy
3xAbrupt Decay
1xPithing Needle
1xNull Rod

I really want to find room for a Choke, as the only thing I've had trouble with have been blue decks. As my local meta have plenty of Storm and Omnitell I think the 7 discard suit is really nice.

[Zombie]

What's your current sideboard? And what's your reasoning behind not cutting a Needle for the Second Rod (my personal reasoning is only Grim Lavamancer and nothing else)?

For reference I've been running the following sideboard in a couple of weeks (pretty standard main with Ruric):
1xScavenging Ooze
1xNatural Order
1xProgenitus
4xThoughtseize
3xCabal Therapy
3xAbrupt Decay
1xPithing Needle
1xNull Rod

I really want to find room for a Choke, as the only thing I've had trouble with have been blue decks. As my local meta have plenty of Storm and Omnitell I think the 7 discard suit is really nice.

Currently, I'd go (2Hoof/Ruric/Ooze/Shaman main, 61 card build):

3 Swan Song or Cabal Therapy according to taste
3 Thoughtseize
1 Progenitus
1 Natural Order
2 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Choke
3 Abrupt Decay

A bit soft to Storm, but hates on UW splendidly.

[Julian23]

Currently, I'd go (2Hoof/Ruric/Ooze/Shaman main, 61 card build):

3 Swan Song or Cabal Therapy according to taste
3 Thoughtseize
1 Progenitus
1 Natural Order
2 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Choke
3 Abrupt Decay

A bit soft to Storm, but hates on UW splendidly.

This is exactly what I am running (3 Cabal Therapy). Only thing is that Ruric Thar seems to have escapped from his cage inside my apartment and I've been playing/winning my last tournament (GP Barcelona sideevent) without him.

[SpencerS]

See you there Sunday Danyul!

I am going with ooze/shaman main. I am torn between Ruric Main or Not...

Sb:

1xNO
1xProg
1xGaddock Teeg
1xNeedle
1xRuric Thar
3xSwan Song
3xAbrupt Decay
4x Thoughtsieze

thoughts?

I am also playing 3x Manadorks main by shaving off 1xNettle/Heritage. I just feel the dork turn1 is always necessary.