[Primer] Elves!

[SpencerS]

Yeah , Gaddock is also a strong choice against storm decks but I think the sideboard has enough hate , especially if ant/Tes expects reef and brings in abrupt decay . Julian or someone , talk to me about Choke ?

[Lemnear]

Yeah , Gaddock is also a strong choice against storm decks but I think the sideboard has enough hate , especially if ant/Tes expects reef and brings in abrupt decay . Julian or someone , talk to me about Choke ?

Erm, I'm barely qualified to comment here, but TES simply Grapeshots your whole board including Teeg if necessary, not to talk about the possibility of killing you turn 1/2 or Silence-Walk your turn 2. The whole reason to include MBT and discard in the first place was to have turn 0/1 outs against combo. Teeg is a turn 2 play at best which was often too slow in the first place and even resolved with a questionable impact. Boarding Decay would be a waste

[pingpong]

So ill be playing in a tournament tomorrow and im unsure on how to round out my sideboard.

Maindeck is 20 lands and then 2 craterhoof, 1llanowar, 1 viridian shaman, 1 Scavenging ooze no birchlore. The rest being normal.

Sideboard:
1 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
3 Abrupt decay
3 Thoughtseize
3 Therapy
2 Thorn of Amethyst

Last two cards are down to 3 (Unless im missing something)
2 Needles and ruric thar. Splitting them seems bad and im not sure how good ruric is in a blind meta or as the 61st.

Thoughts ?? Thanks for the help

[HammafistRoob]

Erm, I'm barely qualified to comment here, but TES simply Grapeshots your whole board including Teeg if necessary, not to talk about the possibility of killing you turn 1/2 or Silence-Walk your turn 2. The whole reason to include MBT and discard in the first place was to have turn 0/1 outs against combo. Teeg is a turn 2 play at best which was often too slow in the first place and even resolved with a questionable impact. Boarding Decay would be a waste

So basically they need Burning Wish or they simply lose. Even if they have a Wish they have to dump a decent amount of resources into clearing up your board, which should leave you with time to Natural Order them out. I agree that he can sometimes be too slow, but that's why discard is brought in as well to slow them down that extra turn. Plus TES isn't played nearly as much as AnT, and Teeg is a house against them and Miracles.

Tldr; Against TES or Burning AnT, Teeg= have Wish or bust.
Against Miracles, Teeg= have StP or death

Since those mathups aren't good for Elves! I'd say not playing a one of Teeg is a mistake.

[Julian23]

As I said, I'd much rather have another Null Rod than Teeg. No question the impact of Teeg against Miracles is slightly higher, but he he's also that much more volatile. Null Rod is always good, Teeg is not. It's not about StP; it's about Karakas completly blanking your card.

Shutting down SDT is your #1 priority, not Terminus. I'd even go as far as to say that we are clearly favored against Miracles if we manage to do that.
So make sure to take advantage of the whole situation until Miracles players finally decide that Wear/Tear should be sided in against Elves.

[HammafistRoob]

As I said, I'd much rather have another Null Rod than Teeg. No question the impact of Teeg against Miracles is slightly higher, but he he's also that much more volatile. Null Rod is always good, Teeg is not. It's not about StP; it's about Karakas completly blanking your card.

But by playing one Teeg, it's like you're essentially playing 5 because of Zenith. You have to actually draw your Null Rod to stop their Top. As nudon said a few posts up, I think Needle is just straight up a better solution if stopping Top is your #1 priority, but I think it should be getting Teeg in play. They have at most 5 answers to Teeg(1 Karakas, 4StP), and you can possibly bait a StP before you go for the Kithkin Advisor.

Shutting down SDT is your #1 priority, not Terminus. I'd even go as far as to say that we are clearly favored against Miracles if we manage to do that.

I agree with this. The problem is that you don't have a lot of ways to accomplish this. I really think you should be looking at Needle instead.

So make sure to take advantage of the whole situation until Miracles players finally decide that Wear/Tear should be sided in against Elves.

I hope, you were kidding here? That just seems so awful to side in a one-or-two of to stop a one-or-two of.

[Einherjer]

I hope, you were kidding here? That just seems so awful to side in a one-or-two of to stop a one-or-two of.

No he is not. Disenchant/Wear//Tear has to be sideboarded against Elves.

Greetings

[Lemnear]

So basically they need Burning Wish or they simply lose. Even if they have a Wish they have to dump a decent amount of resources into clearing up your board, which should leave you with time to Natural Order them out. I agree that he can sometimes be too slow, but that's why discard is brought in as well to slow them down that extra turn. Plus TES isn't played nearly as much as AnT, and Teeg is a house against them and Miracles.

Tldr; Against TES or Burning AnT, Teeg= have Wish or bust.
Against Miracles, Teeg= have StP or death

Since those mathups aren't good for Elves! I'd say not playing a one of Teeg is a mistake.

You need turn 2 Teeg and your opponent plays 12 cantrips + 4 Wishes to clear the field. Dumping artifacts on the field or casting Probes fuels stormcount without any card Investment and even if you have to invest a Ritual and a Wish to clear 4-5 creatures that is still a damn good trade. If you look for a card to supplement discard in the storm matchup I'd rather look at Nullrod or Ruric than at Teeg. Miracles has StoP, Karakas and Top/BS/Ponder to find those. I'm not impressed.

It's not always the case that you can cast Therapy/Teeg/etc. T1/2 and just follow up with the nutdraw turn 2/3 Natural Order into Ruric Thar if they solve Teeg.

[HammafistRoob]

No he is not. Disenchant/Wear//Tear has to be sideboarded against Elves.

Greetings

Why exactly is that true?

@ Lemnear- Could you just like not reply to my posts?

[Einherjer]

Why exactly is that true?

@ Lemnear- Could you just like not reply to my posts?

It's the very same problem with BUG Delver. Both decks, Elves and TA don't necessarily use artifacts, but if they do - they wreck Miracle. Those cards range from Pithing Needle to Winter Orb and Null Rod, alongside special stuff like Sylvan Library or whatever. So while those cards don't really contribute anything to the decks game plan they are very vital when it comes down to how those decks interact with Miracles. Shutting off Top is key, as mentioned by serveral guys here. Sure, I can Force of Will it, or keep my Spell Pierces in the deck, and not the Flusterstorms - but you could still be on the play and land Needle, or I could be tapped out and you could deploy Null Rod, which also nullifies my initial splash-answer to hate like this - Engineered Explosives. At first I was under the impression that boarding in Disenchant in g3 was fine as long as I saw Needle/Rod but I switched over to the point of view where you prefer to make sure nothing ever happens that kills you without having a non-FoW answer to it. So I am now boarding Disenchant vs Elves in every G2, maybe not if I see newbordered Forests and multiple Elves that aren't played in good variants, but against anything that looks remotely close to what is state of the art - my Disenchant comes in.

I hope I could help - if not, feel free to ask again.

Greetings

[HammafistRoob]

I understand that, I just don't think I can really agree with boarding in answers for a one of. I guess it really comes down to which cards you are taking out for the Disenchants or Wear//Tears.

Thanks for the well thouggt out explanation though.

[Lemnear]

@ Lemnear- Could you just like not reply to my posts?

What? I should keep my mouth so that your bold and false statements like the folowing remain unquestioned in the thread?

Look at that one

Against TES or Burning AnT, Teeg= have Wish or bust.
Against Miracles, Teeg= have StP or death

In the 75 of GP Paris T16 Miracles lists there are Tops, Brainstorm, Ponder, StoP, Karakas, Engineered Explosives, Grafdiggers Cage and Pyroclasm. "StP or Death" is a bad hyperbole even considering that EE for X=1 can be played before Teeg comes down.

I guess the usual procedure here after I dismembered both of those bold statements is to call me a troll again? Like in other threads before?

[HammafistRoob]

You got me. I was definitely exaggerating, but cantrips clearly aren't answers to Teeg and neither is Cage if he's in play.
Troll

edit- And yes you can keep your mouth.

[LeoCop 90]

Once in my life i want to Natural Order for Fyndhorn Brownie. I saw this card yesterday at my local store and I'm in love XD

[TsumiBand]

Once in my life i want to Natural Order for Fyndhorn Brownie. I saw this card yesterday at my local store and I'm in love XD

Can you please sac Tarpan to NO when you do this?

sent from phone, don't be a dick

[264505]

It seems like the elves player in the top 8 is throwing these games away. He kept an awful 7 in game 1 and missed some DRS tricks in game 2 that ended up putting him way behind.

[Float4WeldSlaver]

It seems like the elves player in the top 8 is throwing these games away. He kept an awful 7 in game 1 and missed some DRS tricks in game 2 that ended up putting him way behind.

Agreed. I was floored in game 1 after Jund player tapped out for Liliana, edicting him, swung with Confidant--and the elves player didn't fetch Arbor eot to kill Liliana. It was also a garbage keep of 5 lands, DRS, and Visionary.

[Julian23]

I didn't see the games but according to his list, he only plays a single Dryad Arbor. Maybe he didn't have any left?

Regarding the keep, I think I'm very likely to keep 5 lands, 1 DRS, 1 Visionary on the draw. Not too sure on the play though.

[bondafong]

I didn't see the games but according to his list, he only plays a single Dryad Arbor. Maybe he didn't have any left?

Regarding the keep, I think I'm very likely to keep 5 lands, 1 DRS, 1 Visionary on the draw. Not too sure on the play though.

Yeah, depending on what the lands are ofc. With three fetchlands and two Cradles it's a fine hand for instance.

[B4L4]

I was floored in game 1 after Jund player tapped out for Liliana, edicting him, swung with Confidant--and the elves player didn't fetch Arbor eot to kill Liliana

His lone Dryad Arbor was already in graveyard (wasted turn 3 if i remember correctly).


Surprising plays game 2 (on the play) :

Opener : Forest - Windswept Heath - Verdant Catacombs - Deathrite Shaman - Quirion Ranger - Heritage Druid - Glimpse of Nature (nice hand !)
Turn 1 : Forest -> Deathrite Shaman (i see no benefits casting Deathrite Shaman of the basic Forest. When your hand contains 2 Fetchlands, Quirion Ranger, Heritage Druid & Glimpse of Nature, you should use a fetchland to get maximum value out of Deathrite Shaman on turn 2)

Jund turn 1 : Badland -> DrS (Shields down for a nice turn 2 glimpse chain)

Turn 2 :
Draw Heritage Druid #2
Play Windswept Heath (No more possibility of landing a Cradle)
Tap Forest -> Cast Glimpse of Nature
Fetch a basic Forest -> Cast Quirion Ranger
Draw Birchlore Ranger
Use Deathrite Shaman for mana (no more fetchs in graveyard for this turn) -> Cast Birchlore Ranger (Heritage Druid anyone?)

He was then only able to produce 2 green mana for the rest of the turn (with Birchlore Ranger), casting Heritage Druid #1 & #2 (Draws Gaea's Cradle & Wirewood Symbiote) then "bricks".

If you swap his Birchlore Ranger play for Heritage Druid, you use Quirion Ranger for an untap, tap guys for 3 green mana, cast Heritage Druid #2, Birchlore Ranger & Wirewood Symbiote & use Wirewood Symbiote to keep going (with 3 new green mana & at least 1 dude in hand + an unknown draw).


Edit : +1 venice for the fact that you should always save your land drop for a cradle until you really need to use your land drop for a forest / bayou
And yeah, the wirewood symbiote attack into tarmogoyf was reckless, there was no tricks available to shrink the goyf to a 0/1 anyway