I may have a solution to the mana troubles and moon/bridge problems shortcake sometimes has. This is untested and might just be bad, but dropping a top and re-adding a looting may work. Obviously top is the more powerful card most of the time, but pitching dead cards, enabling welder earlier, and land digging might just be worth the small change.
I'd only recommend testing this for 2+ (probably 3) welder builds since a lot of the value would be lost otherwise. Thoughts?
Faithless looting is situationally good. As a one of I kind of like it. When the card is good (welder in play, artifacts in hand) its INSANE. But when its a top deck... it just feels crushing.Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
However, I also hate topdecking a top when I already have one in play. So 2 top/1 faithless seems like a good split.
Well, let's acknowledge we're
splitting hairs. In Jack's build, wouldn't a 3rd petal be just as beneficial? It's a mana source when a moon is out and plays for free under a bridge.
Edit; and how do you "topdeck" a top with one out already? :-P
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Well a petal wouldn't provide the late game boost looting would when you have redundant lands and moons. I'm just trying to think of a way to make the early game a tad better while not damaging the mid to late game as much where top shines
I see, and agree, I was just specifically addressing the moon/bridge problems you mentioned. I suppose a miser's looting would be the trick, then. I have a local coming up, I'll test it :P
If we want to go down the looting path again, I think it should be as a third build. So you would have Mono, Enlightened and Looting. The reason I say this is because you are pushing a different way of playing. Yes, the deck can use looting well, but there is little space in the R/W build and mono Red is a half combo and half control deck using control to bide time for the combo. I feel like we can take the best changes of the last 4 months and re-examine the build, but as its own flavour to make sure we do not dilute it by trying to make it fit pre-existing lists.
While you can just throw it in and call it a day, I feel like that would be the same as just throwing in E-Tut to the mono build and calling it a day. Its not really the most effective way of doing things. I feel like the card is powerful enough to be giving separate thought in deck building. I mean Looting and Bridge conflict for a start.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
First off, I'm only talking about adding 1 looting. This is for the red white build. This is not for mono red at all. I'm not revamping the deck. It's one small trade. Again, it's untested so maybe it sucks. It's not becoming a 'looting' build at all, just a switch in late game to earlier in one untutorable slot.
Second, looting and bridge complement each other. I don't see how they conflict at all.
Ninja'd^
Wht not try good ol' Gamble out as well? Does more or less what looting does, the trade off being the tutor effect verses flashback
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OK I get you.
Just to fix up my point. To use bridge you really want no cards in hand. To use Looting you normally do want cards in hand. The two conflict. You can either keep a hand in case of looting but null bridge, or empty your hand an have another dead draw later on when you find looting.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
I tried gamble (mono red) a while back. It was very meh. With a welder out it was great, but the randomness was something I couldn't live with. It was like a potential self-hymn.
With faithless you have some control. And it is a reasonable top deck with a bridge in play if your stuck with a red blast in hand or something.
And as a one of I completely agree with Kap... It's not changing the direction at all. Just an singleton alternative to top. It's good on its own sometimes too... It digs, and isn't reliant on welder to be good. Just gets better with welder.
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A third Tutor is also an option for kap's list. Early and late game it turns into just about anything. But I'm not sure if it's better than Looting because of the need for a white source.
edit:
fwiw: On SCG today there's two Esper Deathblade vs Mono Red MTGO Painter match videos. The first one isn't exciting, as the painter player is bad (bad keeps, clunky play). The second one is more of a match, though.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...In-Legacy.html
Last edited by jandax; 03-26-2014 at 08:02 AM.
Article is locked behind the pay wall. Got a direct link to the Vid?
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Pay up ;)
I already pay for Magic. Put my money into this place. SCG is far from needing it and I only go there when linked from this site.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Nah, no direct link. They're smart enough to not host on youtube.
It's missable, though. Just a smattering of shameless self promotion and pompous blathering about how good a $5k deck is
After they bumped up the price of Recruiters an extra $80 a few weeks back? Imagine that.
**The sarcasm there was a knock on SCG, not you**
Anyway, I have finally completed this deck on MTGO (Shortcake version) any suggestions before I start cramming games and learning from my mistakes? (of which there will be many)
Yeah, set up a twitch stream, so we can watch and make suggestions :D
Haha, I will do my best! I might need to get a new headset though. Mine isn't the best.
Here is some:
1. Don't ask, this crowd get really pissed with that...
2. Work on your Goblin Welder interactions, there are some really cool tricks you can do with him and opponents don't see them coming. Eg grindstone, welder, tomb and mountain in play and painter in the bin. Activate grindstone targeting opponent while trigger is on the stack weld out stone for painter and win. Draw a card off top and weld it in response.
3. Understand stacking triggers etc. similar to above but you can win or lose (misplay) by not stacking correctly.
4. Pryoblast is strictly better than red elemental blast as you can target any permanent/spell to lower your bridge. If you have to choose between the two prioritise REB over Pyro.
5. Goldfish plenty, there are two sides to the deck you casting, triggering and stacking and then your opponent's interactions. You can practice the first part on your own and it really improves your play.
6. Mulligan 1. for mana (two sources), 2. Combo, 3. Hate - I am still practicing this but these are the rules I am going by atm.
7 Read this http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...-revoker-guide, it was written for Death and Taxes but having played both it helps here also.
FUN FACT: Painter still paints with Humility in play. Welcome to the world of layers!
Good Luck!
Biggest part of shortcake is learning what to preemptively tutor for. For example lets just consider an opening hand with only fetch, tomb, tutor and moon. Holding everything else equal and being on the play there's a ton of different things to eot tutor for depending on their opening. Trop island ponder Do you tutor a petal for a daze proof moon? Volc ponder Maybe petal, maybe bridge? Basic island top what do you tutor for. Blue fetch go do you consider playing around stifle. Fetchland dual deathrite? Fetchland basic deathrite? Dual deathrite?
Again this is just a sample four card hand assuming you're not playing something else turn 1. It'll get more complex (or way easier) depending on what your other 2-3 cards in hand are
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