I dunno about him but I also run a copy and I always board out Sylvan Library and board in this.Originally Posted by DOM
I ALWAYS board it versus any deck with blue, and also versus elves. I did board it on recently versus Junk when I saw him playing Sylvan on G1, and luckily it paid off as he turn 2 Sylvan Library'd and I turn two played Chains. ha! (no I dont think it's the correct boarding in this case but it was fun seeing happening).
Vs Blue decks it's almost like negating at least 8 cards, realistically speaking 7. And is beast vs combo. It works best versus opponents who kept hands because of BS.
I would do this as well if I owned my own copy. I was lucky enough to borrow one for my IQ top 4 but I don't actually own it.
I was lucky enough to find an italian vendor on ebay and got it for 100 euros! I think the same guy is now selling it for 150E, still cheaper than anywhere else.
Italian copies sucks though whenever an unfamiliar player comes across the card haha.
Ha, I am doing pretty much the same except that I keep Sylvan Library in certain matchups where I may need library manipulation to dig for relevant cards. A singleton Life from the Loam which I currently run in my 60 synergies with the duo as well.
Had he played Knight of the Reliquary Mephisto would have helped to make her bigger in that situationdiscarding Lingering Souls also slightly decreases the harm.
Would it be reasonable to switch Pernicious Deed with Toxic Deluge in the sideboard? Deed was there mainly to wreck Affinity and Tribal decks but Deluge seems to fill the same role with lesser mana expanses. However, Deed is rather good versus Miracles - not only you wipe the tokens but you clean their whole board too.
Regarding the ownership of Chains of Mephistopheles, I bought an English NM on last Christmas and am happy to see it has spiked in price :)
I like Deed because not only it can kill Good Game Nemesis, it also destroys equipments. Sometimes for the same cost (TNN and Swords/Jittes/Batterskull's token). Also, Deluge might be a doubleedge blade when cascading into from BBE.
Also great lifesaver vs swarms, like if delver decks puts you in a pinch and you top deck it.
I don't like Deed because I feel it is too slow and lacks the mana efficiency of other options. In order for Deed to be relevant you need to cast it, untap with it still in play and then tap out again to use it. I'm not sure about anyone else but I'd much rather be doing other things with my mana for two straight turns.
As for Deluge cascading off of BBE, the BBE is unaffected by it. Cascade occurs at the casting of BBE and the Deluge will resolve before the BBE.
Ops! I totally forgot about the priority things come up in play!
hm, maybe i should give it a second shot!
Went 1-2 in a small local tournament last night.
R1: UWR Delver 0-2
G1: I keep a hand with 3 lands, Hymn, Lili, and 2 Bloodbraids. In retrospect, this was probably a terrible decision. He plays a turn 1 delver, and I never really get a removal spell. He just kind of flies over and kills me (by the time I get liliana he has backup creatures).
G2: This one was much closer, I get him to 1 life but he plays rest in peace and batterskull. My board of DRS, DRS, Tarmogoyf, and Bloodbraid are very sad. Batterskull pretty much wins it for him from there.
R2: U/R Delver 0-2
G1: Early delver and goblin guide beats combined with my own fetch damage puts me low enough for lightning bolt snap casted to win it for him.
G2: I establish punishing fire combo, but there are a couple of turns where he counters them. It comes down to me having to play a bob and a jitte to try and get back in the game, but he gets me down to 2, and i flip a tarmogoyf to bob kill myself.
R3: Junk 2-0
G1: He plays 3 lingering souls, I am able to make sure a couple of them are only cast 1 time thanks to DRS. I get punishing grove online and proceed to slowly whittle him away.
G2: This is a faster game, I play e plague on spirit, get punishing grove early, and play 3 DRS. I eat instants and sorceries to kill him.
Last edited by ironclad8690; 04-03-2014 at 05:02 PM.
I have a weakness for trying to build SBs that makes me benefit i am not playing blue.
Typically this means I bring:
Chains of mephistopheles
helps against blue: brainstorm, ponder, jace, omniscience+enter the infinite, ancestral vision, etc.
helps against others: elvish visionary, glimpse of nature
Choke
against all blue (especially miracles, BUG and RUG)
Blood Moon (not tried yet)
we can live with it as we always have 2 basics and it screws so many decks: D&T, elves, BUG, RUG, Miracle?
Have you people any other ideas?
My board atm is:
2 Ancient grudge
1 Choke
2 Duress
1 Chains of meph.
2 Grafdigger
1 Underground sea (beware of own blood moon and choke - typically not SB in against the same decks)
3 swan song
2 pyroblast
1 golgari charm
1 toxic deluge
16 cards, i need to cut one.
Cards i would like: Pulse, surgical, e.plague.
Is there any idea in trying to make more beneficial SBs that also go along with cascade? Or will it make the board too inefficient?
I like Maelstrom Pulse for killing multiples which is relevant vs Miracles, and is simply awesome cascading into - kills any threats, specially ones Abrupt Decay can't deal with such as Batterskull or Jace.
I like your perception of sideboard, since Jund's biggest problems are blue decks or combo decks (which with the exception of elves are mostly blue as well). I haven't touched Choke for a while, but it can be nasty when it connects. Maybe I'll trade a Scavenging Ooze for Choke next time!
my sideboard right now is sorta on the same line, perhaps, which means shaped to battle blue decks:
1x Umezawa's Jitte -> Vs attrict decks works the best.
1x Chains of Mephistopheles -> anything blue, always trade this for Sylvan Library
1x Scavenging Ooze -> Now that i write it down, I forgot why it's on the sideboard lol, I think it's because of my brother who plays Dredge. And RUG matches.
2x Ancient Grudge -> Equips, and now more relevantly, Painters
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Pernicious Deed -> swiper - I like it better than Deluge for dealing with equipment and being a valid target for Show and Tell.
2x Golgari Charm -> TNN
1x Red Elemental Blast -> Combos, Miracles
1x Pyroblast -> Combos, Miracles
2x Duress -> Combos
1x Grafdigger's Cage -> Elves, Reanimator, and Manaless Dredge (my brother plays it on the local meta)
1x Null Rod -> Miracles, Stoneblade decks.
Played in a small local 4 round tournament last night.
Round 1: Reanimator (0-2)
Game 1: I am on the play and lead with Bayou > Deathrite Shaman. He can't really do anything so he just keeps playing land and pondering. I only have 1 more land in hand, so I can't play any of my two drops and keep DRS up. I am stuck on two lands until it is too late: he gets Elesh Norn and Griseldaddy in his yard and casts exhume. I exile the Griselbrand, but elesh norn comes back and kills my shaman. I can only play a Tarmogoyf, which even after Elesh is still a formidable 4/5. He buys himself enough time to reanimate a Griselbrand, followed by an Iona (he names red, being at 2 life). I cannot come back and he steamrolls me with undead fatties.
Game 2: I bring in my yard hate (2 Surgicals, 1 Nihil Spellbomb), as well as 3 Pyroblasts and 3 Duress. I take a look at my opening 7: 4 Lands, Lili, BBE, and Tarmogoyf - Not good enough. I go to 6: Badlands, DRS, Bob, Bob, Goyf, Liliana - if the land were a Bayou I would keep, but I toss it back. I eventually end up with this 5: 1 Fetch, 2 Goyf, 1 Duress, 1 Lili. I play my fetch, crack, and duress him: I see 2 Lands, 1 Pithing needle, Grisel, Show and Tell, Entomb, and Reanimate. I take reanimate hoping to buy myself some time. He plays land and passes back, and I am hoping for a land - nope, another lili. Things are looking grim now, I pass back and he entombs Iona EOT. He reanimates with a topdeck the following turn, and names black shutting me out of the game.
0-1
Round 2: Deadguy Ale w/Shocklands (2-0)
Game 1: I manage to eat 3 Lingering Souls in his yard, but still have to deal with the tokens. I eventually just swarm him with creatures and burn, he is left with Mirran Crusader and 1 token vs goyf goyf bob and he is at two.
Game 2: I bring in lingering souls hate (1 Spellbomb, 2 Surgical Extraction, 2 Golgari Charm, 1 Engineered Plague) and my artifact hate (2 Ancient Grudge). He leads off with a slow start, and I am able to burn all of his creatures and win with Bloodbraid elves. He tells me after the match he sided out lingering souls, and I tell his that was certainly incorrect. His reasoning was because he suspected I was siding in so many hate cards for it it became bad, but I still firmly believe it is one of the only ways he can actually win the matchup.
1-1
Round 3: Jund Mirror (2-1)
Game 1: Very grindy back and forth, I win the topdeck war eventually.
Game 2: I bring out Thoughtseize and a single hymn for 2 Golg Charms, 1 Spellbomb, and 2 Surgicals. He wins the topdeck war in this one, and I am just outclassed.
Game 3: I bring in my hymn (since on the play) and side out 1 golgari charm. My opening hand was sick: 1 Fetch, 3 Wastelands, 1 DRS, 1 Bob, 1 Punishing Fire. I lead with DRS, and waste pretty much all the lands he plays aside from his turn 1 basic forest. He almost gets back into it with a bloodbraid elf, but hits Life from the Loam when he really needed a removal. I am able to swarm past him and burn him out.
2-1
Round 4: Elves (2-1)
Game 1: He does what elves do, gets a giant crater on turn 3 or whatever and stomps my yard.
Game 2: Bring in Golg Charms, Engineered Plague, and Pithing Needle. Side out 2 Bloodbraid elves, 1 Lili, and Sylvan Library. He starts doing some shenanigans with visionary and symbiote, but I am able to draw Engineered Plague (pure skill).
Game 3: He almost has a turn 2 glimpse dream turn, but ends with 2 untapped elves and 1 mana in the pool. my bob reveals an engineered plague off the top (pure skill), and I windmill slam it. He stays int he game with an DRS and Nettle sentinel, but I abrupt decay his last two non land permanents the following turn and he scoops.
3-1
At this point I am stoked because 3-1 has a shot at store credit, but I learn that there were two 3-0-1 guys (Lands and 4 Color Cascade). Even without the credit, it was nice to have a good record. I wonder if a Grafdigger's Cage belongs in my sideboard:
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Pyroblast
3 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Plague
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Golgari Charm
What do you guys think? My meta: Lands, Reanimator, Elves, Merfolk, Death and Taxes, Sneak and Show, Patriot Delver.
Nice job on the good results!
If your meta has Reanimator and Elves, I see no reason for not running Grafdigger!
Thanks!
What would you recommend cutting?
If you wanted 2 Cages, I think that I would cut 1 Duress and 1 Engineered Plague.
Plague is good against Elves, but so is Cage, so that's basically a 1 for 1 swap. The duress won't do a ton vs Elves! whereas a 2nd Cage should probably be a lot better off. Basically, I would lean on the Charm and Cage to basically tag team do what Plague does, but against more decks and be more broadly applicable.
-1 Duress shouldn't be bad, because in a control match up, you'll have 2 Duresses, 3 REBs, some number of Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourach and Liliana. So losing 1 Duress shouldn't mess up those matchups too much vs the value gained from Cage shutting down Elves!, Reanimator, Past in Flames Storm chains, and Dredge variants.
Sweet, thanks for the advice. I will update my board and let you guys know how this Sunday goes, I will be playing in a 40+ person tournament.
So I didn't do too well in the tourney. 4-3 was my final record, and I get 22nd place for probably the 4th time in a row at knightware. There were 66 people, so that isn't too bad I guess. Anyway, here is the short report.
Round 1 I played against Doomsday and lost.
Round 2 I played against Reanimator and won (Grafdigger's proved it's worth)
Round 3 I played against Dark Maverick and won (by the skin of my teeth, he GSZd for a knight when he had sigarda mana, if he had gotten sigarda it would've been lights out for me).
Round 4 I played against BUG Delver and won.
Round 5 I played against Patriot Delver and lost
Round 6 I played against Sneak and Show and lost.
Round 7 I played against Death and Taxes and won.
I misplayed vs doomsday and took the wrong card with thoughtseize, but other than that I feel like I didn't really have a chance in that matchup as my draws were discard light.
Vs patriot I got creamed as is per usual. Everyone tells me I should be favored, but each time I play against this deck they always gets exactly what they need, be it True Name Nemesis, Rest in Peace, or multiple Swords to Plowshares. To be fair, my opponent said he drew rather well, and those results were not typical of that matchup.
Vs sneak, I did my best, game 2 I had thoughtseize (which revealed sneak, emrakul, grisel, lotus petal, 2 lands and ponder) with pyroblast backup. I took sneak, and he ponders. Two turns pass, he show and tells, I pyroblast, but he has the force and I die to Emrakul.
Don't think I will change anything about my deck, I just need to keep gaining experience and making better mulligan decisions; especially vs combo decks.
Playing in a small local tonight, will let you guys know how it goes.
I feel like I read this in your posts a lot. The match-up shouldn't be that bad. I would suggest finding a friend who can play the deck and running a bunch of practice games. Even if you have to make a proxy deck just try to hammer out your issues with the match-up before it becomes a mental block. Be super unbiased and critical of every aspect of the match-up and your play and see if you can find an area where maybe your game starts to fall apart. DO NOT change anything in your deck until you've done this. More often than not it's the player and not the cards OR it could reveal a massive gap in your sideboard plan. Hope that helps.
Zach
Thanks for the advice. I will try and practice this matchup specifically.
Don't be afraid to lose every single game for hours. I did this with Sneak and Show and now in competitive play I have not lost to that deck in nearly 6 months. Practice makes perfect but only if you learn while you lose.
Zach
I played this list at SCG: Dallas:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
2 Sylvan Library
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
Sideboard
2 Duress
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Golgari Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Pernicious Deed
I ended at 6-3 when I lost my last two after a 6-1 run through the first seven rounds. My rounds went like this:
Round 1: Miracles (Win 2-1 after a hilarious punt game 2)
Round 2: Esper Stoneblade (Win 2-0)
Round 3: UWR Delver/Patriot (Win 2-0)
Round 4: UWR Delver/Patriot (Loss 0-2, this guy went on to win the whole thing)
Round 5: Burn (Win 2-1)
Round 6: RUG Delver (Win 2-1)
Round 7: Dredge (Win 2-1)
Round 8: Spiral Tide (Loss 0-2, this was TheSource's own Colin Chilbert, he ended up in 3rd)
Round 9: U/R Pyromancer (Loss 1-2, close games 1 and 2 but I mulled to 4 looking for lands in game 3 and got Wastelanded out of the game)
The deck played very well all day, with the exception of my absurd mulligans in round 9 and rather bad draws in game one of round 4. I only missed Hymn to Tourach against Spiral Tide, but even with Hymn the matchup is bad. I believe I could have won round 4 if I had sideboarded correctly, but as I didn't see white game one (my opponent went T1 Delver, t2 Delver, t3 or 4 TNN so I assumed U/R or RUG for some reason and didn't board in Grudge, Pulse, or Deed). Thus I lost to a Delver with 3 different equipment on it game 2. I would recommend this list to anyone who plays in a meta dominated by fair decks as it is good against all of them (RUG Delver is probably the scariest matchup and that's no worse than 50/50 generally). I think the sideboard needs a little work though, I rarely boarded in all 3 Charms or both Grudges (Destructive Revelry might be worth testing).
Lord of the Chalice
Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz
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