Since the topic is the turn 1-kill it doesn't. When going for the T1-kill, you'd never use your Unmask on your opponent. You'd always target yourself with it, making it strictly worse then LED for that specific situation.Originally Posted by Holly
For the turn 1-kill the ideal hand'd consist of something along the lines of LED, 5 cantrips & 2 good dredgers. Then first play LED, throw all cantrips on the stack, crack LED, dump the dredgers and go to town on the 5 consecutive dredges (because obviously the first couple of cards on top of your library are the necessary dredgers and all other cards you'll need for your kill)
The topic was about a t1 kill with playable cards.
It covered another bonus of running unmask.
LED is playable, especially as a sideboard option vs combo.
Hollywood had a number of early dredge builds featuring an LED sideboard package.
The parenthetical seems sort of sarcastic... Chaining dredges is something this deck is meant to do, and even if it weren't the question is about the actual odds of a fast kill. Obviously it takes some luck, as that's exactly what we're examining : just how much luck does it take?
If we go with a deck designed more for a T1 kill, it would be very different from a typical Manaless list.
But the main problem would be the cantrip part > There just isn't that many 0-CMC cantrips out there @ instant-speed for LED, for it to work.
Besides Wraith & Probe, what else is there that works on T1 that doesn't require mana?
That's not really true, back in the day we used to run 4 Serum Powder, 4 Lion's Eye Diamond, 4 Cephalid Coliseum and 4 Deep Analysis for the nut draws, I wouldn't recommend it these days but if you wanted to maximize your T1 win % that's probably your best bet.
While I was exaggerating (and to a lesser degree still am), if I want to burst my t1 win-% I'd some lands and wouldn't bother with trying to jam a ton of otherwise useless (or at least weak) cards in here.
That requires LED to be in your hand (ie mulligan) or those extra cards do nothing. Not exactly a good idea in a deck that shouldn't mull.
I was talking more about 0-mana card cantrips that work regardless of LED, but anyway;
Sounds like LED-dredge, which I would assume we mostly agree is where the T1-win approach discussion will naturally progress to.
BTW, it's a shame that since Faithless Looting was printed (and straight into my LED-dredge deck), I've missed out on telling my opponent it was time for deep Anal....
+1
That's what she said!!!!!!!
Why are people discussing Turn 1 kills with Manaless? Shouldn't that be LED Dredge's job?
''The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.'' Lord Eddard Stark - A Game of Thrones
-Adsum
-ChrisMeister on MTGO
I agree. Ive said it before and for me alot of the reasons why I play this deck is the flavor! I would rather see my opponent suffer a bit longer....I just love the way this deck puts opponents on the play and then out of no where creeps its way back into the game. First it strips their hand self sacrificing horrors and flying illusions in the process. Then comes wave after wave of the undying inevitably crushing any meek resistance standing in its un-holy path. Sometimes from the pits of hell, by way of more self sacrifice, comes the devil himself to seal victory. I believe Jack Nicholson said it the best "Im not gonna hurt ya.....im gonna bash your brains in!"
Yeah I said as much a handful of posts ago.
This whole T1 thing started with the pro's & con's of Unmask in the main.
It was suggested, I'm don't recall by who, that a T1 win was a possibility with Unmask in the list. The thought kinda twisted from there....
The chance of it happening is minute, close to impossible, but there is a faint possibility that with a standard Dryad Arbor & Griselbrand Manaless list with Unmask in the main, that it is possible to combo on T1 .
I think the point of it was to highlight a benefit of Unmask.
That was me lol. I kinda let the cat outta the bag there. I should have spoke to the more likely scenario where you have only one cycler in hand, but regardless you get to dredge t1 on the play. That likely would have won me g2 in the quarterfinals, but is only something to consider if you won g1 and you do not play the blue sideboard.
The Quad Cities: twice as nice as the Twin Cities.
care to share your Unmask list?
I second this request.
DDD / Death & Taxes
The Quad Cities: twice as nice as the Twin Cities.
Really like the list first off. At any point did you want the fourth spy?
@igri is a bk
Thanks! I love the list. Unmask gives a great advantage. I am going to run it in my mainboard.
DDD / Death & Taxes
Are you Caleb Calhoun or was the list developed by you? I've been playing your list before you posted it on here because I'm really intrigued at seeing Unmask back in Manaless Ichorid like the Type 1 days.
I have a question about how you deal with Rest in Peace with this list. I see discard into Extraction as a viable option. Outside of this, there really isn't any other way. I suppose that's just a weakness you give up with this list? My opponents tend to play Enlightened Tutor with their RIP, so I don't get much of a chance to get them all unless I use Surgical Extraction.
Yeah that's me. The way I dealt with RiP was to go totally bro on everyone, slap hands with whoever would throw it up, and pray they didn't have it. I actually was able to put some reads on a few of my opponents based on their overzealous body language. For example, some people will slightly duck their heads, squint, or look closer at their cards when they DON'T have it (I'm serious). The times when people weren't giving up any information, I just went for it. I didn't sideboard because diluting your deck with Extractions in the hopes of hitting RiP or something relevant is slim. And you could probably have guessed that I didn't bring in Extractions to defend against other Extractions either.
The Quad Cities: twice as nice as the Twin Cities.
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