[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[Esper3k]

I want to know how you feel about the 19 lands. Has it been a problem against tempo decks.

Against the heavy Wasteland decks, it hurts some, but you still have 23 mana sources. RUG is still rough because of Stifle + Wasteland.

I'm still happy with it because I was finding in most matchups I was playing, I was boarding out a land quite a bit (per Akatsuki's sideboarding guide) so I basically decided to just play 19 lands to preboard against those decks. The maindeck Sylvan I can play because of it can usually find you plenty of lands if you need it too.

Basically, against any deck that aggressively attacks your manabase, you want the 20 lands, but against anything that doesn't molest your manabase, 19 lands is fine.

[exallium]

I want to know how you feel about the 19 lands. Has it been a problem against tempo decks.

I feel like 20 lands is almost a necessity if you are running liliana.

As for the Miracles matchup, Winter Orb is amazing. The only real answer besides countermagic is Wear // Tear (or just doing nothing), and red mana is very scarce in the deck as it is (For example, Joe's list runs 2, one of which dies to wasteland.) I think with the rise of Miracles (and with the few lands decks I keep seeing in my meta), 2 winter orb in the board seems pretty great.

Vendilion Clique is very good as well. It doesn't need to stick to get the trigger to resolve, and can snipe miracle cards out of the player's hands as they are drawn (in res to miracles trigger).

Stifle is interesting. I've seen some recent IQ lists running MD stifles, and honestly, I don't care much for it, as it doesn't seem to fit with the plan the rest of the deck is going for. They are very good against Miracles, but at the same time I feel like stifle needs to be a part of your plan in order to run it. In the sideboard you really only bring it in to delay things. No one is boarding in stifle vs. vendilion clique.

[Myelectronicdays]

I still wish it was reasonable to have like 2 hypnotic spectres in the deck also. i miss those little babies.

I may play with them regardless ;D

[Sturtzilla]

Hey all! Another week and another locals played through to some prize! Ended second after going 3-1, losing in the last round to Merfolk (Blue Burn). I have tweaked up the list a bit as our local meta has shifted to be a little more fair. Here is the list I played for reference.

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Dark Confidant
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
2 Disfigure
4 Daze
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Liliana of the Veil
3 Force of Will
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
2 Golgari Charm
1 Dismember
1 Krosan Grip
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Trygon Predator
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Submerge
1 Force of Will

I played Jund Nic Fit (2-0), 4-Color Delver (2-1), BUG Mirror (2-0), and Merfolk (0-2). The deck felt pretty good up until Merfolk. I think if the deck starts to rear its head we will need to start considering Toxic Deluge, Engineered Plague, and possibly Pernicious Deed. Those were my thoughts at improving the match up. I wasn't really in either game. I mulliganed both 7 card hands to find more than sinlge land hands. Then was removal light on 6. I don't think it is favorable, but maybe that amplified how bad it felt. Anyway I would like to hear what you guys think about it.

[say no to scurvy]

With the 6 maindeck spot-removal build like yours, I find we are favored against the cavern build and less so against the wasteland version.

[wcm8]

I am playing 3 Lili and 2 Sylvan Libraries in my maindeck to great results. Both cards are fantastic against what I perceive the current metagame to be like. I actually dropped threats 13-14 for these, but I could see making room for a lone Tombstalker or TNN. Library is a pseudo-threat, as it digs for gas and against combo and/or StP decks it can safely generate card advantage. Works great with all of the fetchlands too. It can occasionally +1 Goyf if it gets countered/discarded/destroyed. Extras can be shuffled away. Library also makes the sideboard even better, since it really helps dig deep for your hate cards.

[Dragonslayer_90]

The deck felt pretty good up until Merfolk. I think if the deck starts to rear its head we will need to start considering Toxic Deluge, Engineered Plague, and possibly Pernicious Deed. Those were my thoughts at improving the match up. I wasn't really in either game. I mulliganed both 7 card hands to find more than sinlge land hands. Then was removal light on 6. I don't think it is favorable, but maybe that amplified how bad it felt. Anyway I would like to hear what you guys think about it.

I think Toxic Deluge is the best sb consideration out of all the cards you mentioned. Plague doesn't really get the job done against merfolk and Pernicious Deed is too mana intensive. I played your final round opponent in the second round last night. One of the keys to the match up I think is an early hymn. I lost game one despite a good start because I drew too many lands, won game two basically because I resolved a turn two hymn on the play and lost game 3 because I misplayed. I think the matchup is annoying but is manageable given an early hymn and/or removal.

I am playing 3 Lili and 2 Sylvan Libraries in my maindeck to great results. Both cards are fantastic against what I perceive the current metagame to be like. I actually dropped threats 13-14 for these, but I could see making room for a lone Tombstalker or TNN. Library is a pseudo-threat, as it digs for gas and against combo and/or StP decks it can safely generate card advantage. Works great with all of the fetchlands too. It can occasionally +1 Goyf if it gets countered/discarded/destroyed. Extras can be shuffled away. Library also makes the sideboard even better, since it really helps dig deep for your hate cards.

Curious about your build. Would you mind posting a list with justification of other non-stock choices?

[Sturtzilla]

One of the keys to the match up I think is an early Hymn.

I am not saying that you are wrong. Your go to answer whenever I claim there is a bad match up (like Burn) is "Hymn them early." I just don't think it is always that cut and dry especially in these very redundant decks (Burn, Merfolk). I think here we need to counter turn 1-2 Vials, have Deluge in the deck, and also be Hymning them. Hymn wasn't an easy option for me either game mostly due to early Cursecatchers.

[AngryTroll]

I went 7-2 this weekend at SCG:DFW for 21st place with the standard 2 Liliana, 2 Tombstalker, 4 Hymn list. My sideboard was:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Thoughtseize
2 Spell Pierce
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Disfigure
2 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Krosan Grip
I expected lots of Miracles, so a second Grip made it into the sideboard, as it's also good against Batterskulls. I only ended wanting the Grip against Aluren, but it was great in that matchup.

Our group heard that round three was delayed and starting at 1, so we left for lunch after much griping about the delay. Turns out the announcement was Two Headed Giant started at 1...so we all got a match loss round 3. It sounded like a fair number of people made the same mistake, but not enough for it to need to be fixed. Bummer. Besides that, though, I went 7-1 in matches.

A few quick highlights:

2-0 UG Infect
I actually used a Deathrite Shaman to block this game and eat an Invigorate out of my opponent's hand. It's easy to forget he actually does five things (Attack, block, make mana, drain life, and gain life).

0-2 Death and Taxes
I made a mistake in game two, letting a SFM live to increase my clock; I figured I could win before the Sword of Feast and Famine he fetched would be relevant.
Board: I had 2 flipped Delvers, three land, a Disfigure, Golgari Charm, and Hymn in hand; Opponent: 1 Flickerwisp (reset a Delver, but it flipped again), 1 SFM, three lands, 5 cards in hand (1 SoF&F). My opponent had already taken 6 from the two Delvers.

I opted to Disfigure the Flickerwisp, swing for six, and Hymn my opponent. I hit two lands....but his remaining three cards were Brimaz, Sword of Feast and Famine, and Batterskull. He vialed in the Batterskull, made a Brimaz, and I lost horribly. The other line of play was to Disfigure the SFM, Golgari Charm the Flickerwisp, and swing for four instead of six, leaving him five cards in hand. This line lets him untap and cast Brimaz, then untap the next turn, play and equip the sword, swing with Brimaz, and then play the Batterskull, so I'm not sure I could have won this game either way. Disclaimer: I might be slightly off in the details, but this is close to what happened.


Match Loss

Bant 2-0.
I killed multiple TNNs this match; what's the big deal about the 3/1 again, exactly? This opponent was very friendly but seemed new to Legacy.

BUG Control 2-1
This was a super interesting interactive match. In game three I ended up with 3 DRS in play; I laughed about Echoing Decay, but luckily my opponent couldn't find his Maelstrom Pulse or Toxic Deluge before I killed him. I had a series of live draws in one of the games while he was stuck that sealed the deal.

BURG 2-0.
Game two he had an early Bitterblossom! I had an Abrupt Decay and Golgari Charm, but was very tight on mana all game and didn't want to get Dazed out. We traded 3 or 4 Wastelands, and eventually his DRS stopped mine from making mana. I finally managed to Abrupt Decay the enchantment, bait a counter with Goyf, and Golgari Charm for 4 faeries and a Delver. I won this game with Goyfs.

Aluren 2-1.
This deck is awesome. I want to build it...why on earth hasn't Imperial Recruiter been reprinted? In game two I passed holding Krosan Grip, Clique, and an Abrupt Decay. My opponent knew about all three from a Gitaxian Probe, so when he Cabal Therapied we both went into the tank. I Cliqued him and sent an Aluren to the bottom of the deck, and that was it. He did Intuition for 3 Shardless Agents while holding a Cavern Harpy and had four mana in play, which seemed super cool....but I just killed the Shardless Agent and then killed him. I was beaten to death by Scavenging Oozes and assorted little creatures in game two, which was pretty funny.

Esper 2-1.
That 3/1 protection-from-the-format game-wrecker blocked a Tarmogoyf once and then I killed it again. I don't know what the problem seems to be. In game three, on the play, my hand was Delta, Delver x2, Daze, Wasteland x3. I laughed and kept it. I led with Delver, he Probed me, looked concerned, and played a fetchland. I played another Delver and a Wasteland and said go. He made a Volcanic, fetched a Tundra, and killed a Delver. I untapped and Wastelanded him out of the game. My Delver refused to flip, but he missed so many turns it was pretty straightforward to kill him.

ANT 2-0.
One of my friends and I were paired in the final round. We agreed to split, and then my draws were incredibly good.


I ended up 7-2 and won six matches in a row after a rocky start. Thoughts:
I love the Hymn and Tombstalker version. I am not opposed to testing the TNN build, but every time I cast a Tombstalker it was a huge problem for my opponents.
2 Lilianas maindeck were incredible. I'd still like to have a Sylvan Library in game one, but I don't think it's worth cutting the 20th land or the fourth Ponder or going up to 61 cards.
The Elves matchup is rough with that sideboard. I played Elves twice Friday night and went 1-1. If I planned to see the deck more often TA needs a sweeper of some sort in the board.
I played against 8 Different decks in 8 rounds! Legacy is awesome.

[zenzog]

Went 3-1 and finished in the top 4 of a local tournament with the following list:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Dark Confidant
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
4 Daze
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Library
3 Force of Will
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Envelop
2 Golgari Charm
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Krosan Grip
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Disfigure
1 Force of Will

Matches were as follows:
0-2 UWr Miracles, 2-0 Deadguy Ale, 2-0 UWR Delver, 2-1 UWr Miracles

When playing against miracles, I usually go:
-2 Abrupt Decay, -4 Daze, -2 Thoughtseize, -1 Tarmogoyf, -1 Wasteland
+1 Lilliana of the Veil, +1 Krosan Grip, +2 Golgari Charm, +2 Vendilion Clique, +1 Null Rod, +1 Envelop, +1 Surgical Extraction, +1 Hymn to Tourach

The matchup is definitely getting easier for me as I get more experience with the deck. I used to be on Bob Huang's list (with a few SB tweaks), but I swapped stalkers for confidants, ponder for spell pierce, and abrupt decay for sylvan library. I face at least one miracles list every week, so I'm slightly more geared towards that.

The week before, I went
2-0 Landstill, 0-2 UWr Miracles, 1-0 Bye, 0-2 Death and Taxes

D&T is another deck I would expect to play weekly... what can be done about Mirran Crusader, if anything? Just Toxic Deluge and maybe Marsh Casualties?

[Esper3k]

Ok! Here's my tournament report from SCG DFW:

Here's my decklist:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=66165

Essentially, I'm playing Phazonmutant's successful list with a few small tweaks. In the main, I prefer the 4th Daze over the Spell Pierce because I wanted to maximize my chances of seeing Daze early. I played a 2 TNN package over the Dark Confidant / Tombstalker because I wanted to just have a better game vs control & fair decks and was willing to have a slightly weaker G1 vs combo. I'm a greedy bastard and cut the 20th land (a fetch) for the Sylvan Library in the main because I love Library plus I've been noticing that I tend to board out a land in many matchups anyways (essentially any deck that doesn't run heavy Wastelands) so I wanted to pretty much preboard there.

In the board, as we have discussed on this thread, I'm one of the guys who believes in the idea that because we see so many cards due to our cantrips, I like having high impact sideboard cards, so you see things like an Envelop / Flusterstorm / 2x Spell Pierce package vs the 4x Spell Pierces, etc. The Jitte is a little odd, but I was noticing that I was having some issues with actually the fair matchups like D&T, so I wanted to have something that was very impactful on them. It being an artifact is perfect because again, it's really not going to get hit by anything other than an Abrupt Decay in the fair matches. Plus, I'm playing the 2x TNN and we know how Equipment works with that guy.

Anyways, onto the report! Forgive my old man memory - I tried to take notes, but I was more focused on just winning matches :)

Round 1 - vs Johnny (Deathblade)

Game 1: He wins the die roll and I don't remember too much of this match other than he actually got down a Batterskull and a Bitterblossom! However, 3x flipped Delvers race Batterskull really well :) On the last turn of the game, he was at 8 life, had 1 faerie token and I had to Ponder to look for a removal spell for the Faerie for the win. Disfigure was on top.

Boarding: -3 Force of Will, -4 Daze, -1 Disfigure, +1 Abrupt Decay, +1 Dismember (in this matchup, where your life total isn't under much pressure, I like Dismember because it can kill a Germ too), +2 Golgari Charm, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Liliana of the Veil, +1 Umezawa's Jitte, +1 Vendilion Clique

Game 2: I mulled to 6 and kept something like Underground Sea, Wasteland, Ponder, Thoughtseize, Krosan Grip, Clique. He plays a fetch, grabs a Tundra, and passes. I draw a Fetch land and lead off with a Thoughtseize since I don't have an answer to T2 SFM yet. I see: StPx2, Flooded Strand, Wasteland, SCMx2. I take a SCM. He Wastelands me on his turn and I Wasteland him back so we're both on zero lands. He drops his Flooded Strand and fetches a basic Plains while I start Pondering looking for lands. We play draw-go for a bit and he plays an Underground Sea to go along with his Plains and passes the turn. I get up to Sea, Sea, Wasteland, and Clique him on his draw step. I see: 3x StP, SCM, Batterskull, SFM, Divert (!!!). Thinking hard, I just leave him with his hand and he plays SFM, getting Jitte. On my turn, I Wasteland his Sea and Disfigure his SFM, and attack with the Clique. On his turn, he just draws and plows my Clique (god, I love Wasteland). Eventually, I get enough dudes out to punch through his 3 StP and beat him to death with a 7/8 Tarmogoyf (I had killed a Bitterblossom in the match).

1-0 (2-0)

Round 2 - vs Chris (Esper Stoneblade)

Game 1: I win the die roll and immediately mull to 4. Wow, nice deck. I keep a hand of Underground Sea, Daze, Daze, Hymn to Tourach. I play Sea and pass turn. He plays a Sea and passes. I draw... fetch land! Get a Bayou, Hymn. He tries to Brainstorm to hide his goodies, but I snap Daze it. I get a Basic Island and Lingering Souls, ugh. On his turn, he plays another Sea and drops a Jitte. Whew. On my turn... Sylvan Library!!! I windmill slam it down and pass turn. Chris then Brainstorms, plays a third Sea and goes for the Lingering Souls flashback, which I Daze. My turn? Pay 8 life to Sylvan Library. He gets stuck on 3 Seas and the Library carries me the distance.

Boarding: Same as vs Deathblade

Game 2: He keeps a 2 land hand with 1 nonbasic. I have Wasteland. Hooray for free wins!

2-0 (4-0)

Round 3 - vs Jarrod (UWR Delver)

Game 1: Jarrod wins the die roll and we have a good game, but I can't find an Abrupt Decay to save my life vs a TNN + Jitte and the mini-Progenitus kills me.

Boarding: Same as vs Deathblade except I left in both Disfigures (they have burn) and leave out the Dismember.

Game 2: I kill all his guys and he fails to find removal for my guys.

Game 3: We get this insane board state where I have Tarmogoyf, 2 Flipped Delvers, TNN vs his Delver & TNN + Jitte. He's constantly having to pop Jitte counters to get life / kill my guys. Neither of us can kill each other in time and we end up drawing. Neither of us is willing to concede to the other so we just take our draw. I see Jarrod at tables next to me throughout the tournament and we keep cheering each other on.

2-0-1 (5-1-1)

Round 4 - vs Darrin (UWr Miracles)

This one was an off-camera feature match. IIRC, this was Darrin's first time playing Miracles - wow!

Game 1: I do my thing and wreck his hand and eventually get down dudes + Sylvan, which draws me a bunch of cards.

Boarding: -4 Daze, -2 Disfigure, -2 Abrupt Decay, +1 Envelop, +1 Force of Will, +2 Golgari Charm (swapping for the ADs - you do this if you think they're going to board out CB since Golgari Charm can do double work vs Verdict & RIP, which is too good for them not to bring in), +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Liliana of the Veil, +1 Surgical Extraction, +1 Vendilion Clique

Game 2: A mull to 6 starts this game off. I get him down to 7 life with just a lone Top and 1 card vs my TNN while I have Force + Envelop in my hand. I draw a Delver and play it to put him on a faster clock. He doesn't have an answer and dies next turn. My friend feels like I should've just kept the Delver in my hand so I have Force + Envelop backup against Terminus in case he has Force + blue card, but he'll get an extra draw step. Thoughts?

3-0-1 (7-1-1)

Round 5 - vs Jorge

Game 1: Jorge is on the play and leads off with a fetchland into Tundra. I play a Delver and it gets plowed. He plays a Tropical Island (ok, Bant?) and drops a SFM. I Disfigure the SFM and Wasteland his white source. The game goes back and forth, but the Wasteland sets him far enough back that I can finish him off with a Delver. He played a DRS and Geist of Saint Traft over the course of the game, so I got a little more information out of that.

Boarding: Standard Deathblade (but keeping in mind Golgari Charm might not be that good here if he's playing Geists over TNN)

Game 2: Mull to 6 already meant my hand was a little shaky. Deathblade does what Deathblade does and Plow, SFM, SCM -> Plow, Geist and I die.

Boarding: -1 Golgari Charm, +1 Disfigure. I didn't see any TNNs in 2 games, so I'll bring the second Disfigure back in to fight DRS + SFM.

Game 3: I almost punt the game away when I have Sylvan Library out... and set up so that my double Delvers -won't- flip (I wanted to draw a Tarmogoyf and was low on life so I couldn't just pay 4), but the power of the green Necropotence carries me through my mistake.

4-0-1 (9-2-1)

Round 6 - vs Donald (UWR Delver)

I believe this was Donald's first or second Legacy tournament, so props to him for doing well this far!

Game 1: I win the die roll, which is of course huge here and helps offset my mulligan to 6. We disrupt each other, but I stick a Goyf and he doesn't have StP or TNN to stop it.

Boarding: Normal UWR Delver boarding

Game 2: Donald's turn to mulligan to 6! I have T1 DRS, but he has T2 RIP. I let ignore it and keep Brainstorm/Pondering to find more lands and slowly Wasteland him out while he's filling his hand through SFMs that keep dying. I eventually stick a Jitte on the DRS and he can't kill it before it kills his board, then him. I let RIP stick around the entire game even though I had AD & Golgari Charm in my hand :)

5-0-1 (11-2-1)

Round 7 - Ke (Reanimator)

Ke and Jarrod (my Round 3 opponent that I had drawn with) were playing at the table next to mine and I remembered seeing a Griselbrand + Sea on his side of the table, so I put him on Reanimator. We've got another off camera feature match.

Game 1: I won the die roll and kept: Underground Sea, Deathrite Shaman, Tarmogoyf, Daze, Hymn, Wasteland, Sylvan Library. I lead off with T1 DRS, which he snap Forces. I Daze back and he's sad. He plays fetches, Careful Study... no fatties for the yard! That's important since I don't draw a Green source next turn and I play the Sylvan Library off of the DRS. He plays land, go. My Library doesn't find me a land, but I see... Force, Daze, Daze. Pay 8 life, please! Tarmogoyf hits the table and my next 3 from Library finds me the green source I need to lock up the game with my countermagic.

Boarding: -2 Disfigure, -2 TNN, -2 Abrupt Decay (I usually like to leave 1 in vs Reanimator for Pithing Needles and Animate Dead), -3 Hymn to Tourach, +1 Envelop, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Force of Will, +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 Liliana of the Veil, +2 Spell Pierce, +1 Surgical Extraction, +1 Vendilion Clique

Game 2: I mull to 6 keeping Force, Flusterstorm, DRS, Goyf, 2x land. Can't ask for too much better than that on a mull to 6, right? Well, Ke really sticks it in my pooper on this one. He goes T1: City of Traitors, Lotus Petal, Show & Tell. I Force. My turn, land, DRS. His turn: Float mana from City, Underground Sea, Show & Tell, which resolves and Griselbrand shows up to the party. Ugh. Ole' hook hands smashes my face and I can't find an answer, especially when he Needles naming Liliana.

Game 3: I keep Grafdigger's Cage, Tarmogoyf, DRS, Force, Brainstorm, land, land. I slam down the T1 Grafdigger's Cage and he has to read it sadly. He plays a land and Entombs anyways, finding Grave Titan. I draw a Daze and play the DRS. He draws, plays a land, and Brainstorms, then passes turn. I draw Thoughtseize and play it, seeing: Show & Tell x 2, Lotus Petal, City of Traitors, Flusterstorm, Reanimate. Ugh, so he can resolve a Show & Tell through my countermagic no matter what I do unless I Brainstorm into another counterspell. I take a Show & Tell and get ready for the worst. He drops the City (4 mana now), Lotus Petal (5 mana), and Show & Tells. I Force, pitching the Daze, and predictably, he Flusterstorms. I Brainstorm and see land, Liliana, Abrupt Decay, and put back Abrupt Decay and Liliana on top. Show & Tell resolves and he drops Elesh Norn while I drop Tarmogoyf. Elesh Norn kills my DRS, but my Goyf stays alive. I draw Liliana and play her, immediately -2ing her to kill Elesh Norn and Goyf starts beating. He draws nothing and Liliana + Goyf get there.

6-0-1 (13-3-1)

Round 8 - Jake (RUG)

Huh - a fellow Houstonian! We talk about the local stores in the area then get started. Yet another off camera feature match for us.

Game 1: I win the die roll and keep a greedy hand of Bayou, Wasteland, double DRS, Force, Daze. Well, of course I don't find lands for awhile, but Jake spends his early turns playing a Delver, then Bolting my DRS, which actually allows me time to naturally draw more lands! The game goes long and gets really awkward with his triple Goyfs vs my double Goyf + DRS at one point but he lands a TNN and has me low enough that I can't race the Merfolk Rogue.

Boarding: -3 Force of Will, -2 Daze, +1 Abrupt Decay, +1 Dismember (sometimes paying 4 life sucks, but it's more removal and can potentially kill Tarmogoyfs), +1 Liliana of the Veil, +1 Vendilion Clique (it trades with Delver or Goose), +1 Umezawa's Jitte

Game 2: I achieve Tarmogoyf superiority and he can't deal with the big green guys.

Boarding: Normally, against RUG, I'd bring in 2 Force for the 2 Daze since I'm on the draw, but I noticed in G2 he really wasn't playing around Daze at all (I had gotten a TNN with Daze), so I left them in.

Game 3: Ugh. Mull to 5. I keep Underground Sea, Daze, Ponder, Wasteland, Tarmogoyf. He leads off with a Tropical Island and passes. Damn, Stifle. Lucky I don't have any fetches! I draw a Disfigure and Ponder into Bayou, Goyf, Liliana and draw the Bayou. Jake Ponders on his turn (I'm tempted to Daze here), then plays Wasteland... and passes? Ok. I Waste his Tropical Island and pass. If he Wastelands my Sea here, it sucks, but I'll have a Bayou to his 0 lands and all I need is any other land to start dropping Goyfs. The point is moot when he just draws and passes, not Wastelanding me again - I'm thinking he had Goyfs too. Well, I drop the Bayou and play Goyf. He draws and passes. I attack, play second Goyf, which prompts the concession from him.

8-0-1 (15-3-1)

There are only three X-0-1's going into the last round and I draw with the burn player into the T8.

You can see my match vs Joe Lossett on camera here:

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/519515448

Starts at around 13:06:00

[Dragonslayer_90]

I am not saying that you are wrong. Your go to answer whenever I claim there is a bad match up (like Burn) is "Hymn them early." I just don't think it is always that cut and dry especially in these very redundant decks (Burn, Merfolk). I think here we need to counter turn 1-2 Vials, have Deluge in the deck, and also be Hymning them. Hymn wasn't an easy option for me either game mostly due to early Cursecatchers.

Didn't see Cursecatchers in any games so didn't know he had them, though I'm not surprised he did have them. Much of the time I say "Hymn them early" I'm saying it partly in jest. But seriously, an early Hymn is a phenomenal high impact play against redundant aggressives decks but it's not the ONLY high impact play that should or can be made. If I have a force of will in hand that's live, I will force of will a turn1/2 Aether Vial. Not saying I wouldn't do that. That's the reason I said "one of the keys" and not "the key" in my previous post. Sure there are particular conditions that make it less impactful like when you are on the draw but you can say that about many cards really.

D&T is another deck I would expect to play weekly... what can be done about Mirran Crusader, if anything? Just Toxic Deluge and maybe Marsh Casualties?

Try to get it with discard if you can. If it sticks you've either got to wipe the board with something like deluge or Liliana it, which is not as unlikely as you think if you can play removal the gathering to stifle their board development from the early game onward.

[Asthereal]

@Zenzog: Why would you board out a Tarmogoyf against Miracles? Dropping Stalkers makes sense because they suck against Jace, but all other threats are golden against them. At least, that's what I think. I'd much rather not board in the Surgical.

[zenzog]

@Zenzog: Why would you board out a Tarmogoyf against Miracles? Dropping Stalkers makes sense because they suck against Jace, but all other threats are golden against them. At least, that's what I think. I'd much rather not board in the Surgical.

It's mostly to keep myself slightly less dependent on the graveyard.
That was my thought process anyway. But they do have a lot of spot removal spells that it might be better to keep the 4 in. I could see going down to 2 FOW and keeping in the goyf. Or not boarding in the null rod at all, but it's nice to have against top.

Re: Surgical-- I feel that they're a deck that just has a couple big haymakers in terminus, entreat, and jace and if surgical can nab one of them off a hymn or thoughtseize (or after getting terminus'd), I feel a little safer. These pilots usually put in 2 rest in peace, 2 supreme verdict and take out counterbalance post board.

Also, I might put a maelstrom pulse into my SB for the miracles matchup, possibly over the 4th hymn to tourach.

[Barbed Blightning]

Looking for some input on the following list. Seattle's meta is flooded with Tundras and Delvers, but with the Portland Open coming up in late June, I'm preparing for a slew of random decks.


4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Dark Confidant

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder

2 Liliana of the Veil

SB: 2 Spell Pierce
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Disfigure
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge



The sideboard is a bit of a mess and I'm still on the fence about Bob and TNN main. I like Esper3k's theory about high-impact cards (though not necessarily on Envelop :P) so this SB reflects that somewhat I think. Any thoughts?


EDIT: Sturtzilla, I just saw that Trigon Predator in your sideboard. Saucy. Was it as good as my inner Timmy desperately wants it to be?

[Esper3k]

I think the list looks fine. The only card I'm iffy on is Toxic Deluge. Null Rod was less good for me than I expected in my testing (plenty fine vs Tops but wasn't as good vs Equipment as I wanted it to be).

[Sturtzilla]

EDIT: Sturtzilla, I just saw that Trygon Predator in your sideboard. Saucy. Was it as good as my inner Timmy desperately wants it to be?

I haven't really gotten to test it out that rigorously yet. My initial thinking was that if he is good enough for Vintage sideboards (which he is... and some maindecks), then there are probably applications for him in Legacy. My first thought was that he would be really awesome against UWR Delver. However they usually pack 3-4 Bolt and 3-4 StP. Both of these take care of the Predator. I am still working on exactly what I want to do sideboarding wise in that match up, but Predator is usually in the mix. He is an extra creature that still has a body post RIP and can also get us out from underneath a RIP. Plus he also cleans up Equipment like a boss. The only time I have cast him, he was immediately FoWed, which made my opponent Hellbent. I was slightly ahead on board with some removal in hand. Figured I would push forward to invalidate any incoming Equipment. I would say I am not sold on him yet, but he seems pretty good. Plus there are other match ups where he has some value like Painter, Enchantress, and any Stoneforge deck. There are probably more too. I would say give it a try.

[wcm8]

Null Rod is criminally underplayed. Shuts off equipment, Vial, Top, etc.

Carpet of Flowers is sick tech in the tempo mirror.

[Barbed Blightning]

Null Rod is criminally underplayed. Shuts off equipment, Vial, Top, etc.

Carpet of Flowers is sick tech in the tempo mirror.

Capet... damn. Should probably be playing that, lol.

My concern with Rod is that, unlike needle, it can't hit bullshit like Jace, SFM, Mom, Port, etc--hence 1 needle 1 rod. Maybe this is too nitpicky.

@Sturtzilla: I will! He also sounds great vs Mud and even D&T.

@Esper: Deluge is like charm #3 but has a higher killing power; it's been awesome vs D&T, who are going back to Crusader to keep up with our dominance. Deluge cleans their clock nicely



Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[exallium]

Null Rod is criminally underplayed. Shuts off equipment, Vial, Top, etc.

Carpet of Flowers is sick tech in the tempo mirror.

I've currently got a singleton Null Rod in my sideboard. This is the nuts against Death and Taxes.