[Deck] Dredge

[drude1]

So I know up until 2013 there were quite a few lists that would run Bloodghast, but recently it has not been nearly as popular as it use to be. I was wondering if anyone would be willing to clarify why this would be?

I see Ichorid being just as fragile or playable as it, but being a bit easier to get into play on a regular basis as well as having an easy sac outlet. Is that the only reason?

Bloodghast were used more to play a combo heavy version of the deck. They are a turn faster to use in conjunction with undiscovered paradise. These days most people are less about combo and more about grinding games out. Ichorids can reliably swing in for 3 every turn and trigger zombies on their way out every turn.


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[Que]

Hi all,

Just got top 4 at Knightware in Studio City. There were a total of 66 players with a prize pay out to top 10. http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ple-for-prizes

Brief note. It was a complete meta game call to bring street wraiths and leave Breakthroughs at home. I did not miss Breakthrough at all and Streeth Wraith allowed for some broken chain dredging. The fact that its uncounterable is what makes it cream. Its a page taken from manaless dredge yes, but it had been a thing once before. I just wanted to be able to have additional gas without the requirement of mana. Sometimes you get wasted, walk into daze, get pierced, get fow'd etc..This just gives a big middle finger to all of that and allows you to cruise once again.

My rounds went as followed:

Round 1: William Kang with D & T
Match Score: 1-0
Round 2: Nathan Situ with U/W/R Delver
Match Score: 2-0
Round 3: Daniel R. with Jund Lands
Match Score: 3-0
Round 4: Vidianto Wijaya with U/W/R Delver
Match Score: 3-1
Round 5: Stephen Gee with Shardless BUG
Match Score: 3-2
Round 6: ??? with MUD Welder
Match Score: 4-2
Round 7: Danny Batterman with Nic Fit/Food Chain
Match Score: 5-2

At the end of round 6 I was in 9th place, however, my breakers were solid as I had only lost to the 1st (Vidi) & 2nd seed (Stephen G).
Round 7 had me paired against Danny with Food Chain Pod. I won game one in the face of a turn 1 Deahtrite Shaman into a turn 2 Scavenging Ooze with a green up. I was able to accomplish this by fizzling the Ooze's ability with a well timed Street Wraith Cycle. It also helped that I had a 2nd one in my opener. I recurred 3 Ichorids and flooded the board with multiple zombies which left me with enough power on board to close the game out. Game 2 he FOW'd my Faithless looting and then Cabal Therapie'd away the careful study I had in my hand. I still had 1 more outlet in the form of Faithless looting and at this point his hand was pretty bare as it no longer had any meaningful interaction. Eventually the game rolls out in my favor. The win cemented my placement into the top 8 being seded 7th.

Top 8:

Round 8: Stephen Gee with Shardless BUG
2-0

The way the brackets worked out I would get to play Stephen once again. This time I was able to pull out the win and secure a spot in the top 4. Ultimately we ended up splitting the fetches. I took home a Flooded Strand and a Scalding Tarn for my troubles. :)

EDIT: I'm still a proponent of Quadlazer. Although its nice having that Dread Return sometimes as it allows you to amass a zombie army before a cage or RIP comes down assuming they don't drop it turn 2.

[JPoJohnson]

Hi all,

Just got top 4 at Knightware in Studio City. There were a total of 66 players with a prize pay out to top 10. http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ple-for-prizes

Brief note. It was a complete meta game call to bring street wraiths and leave Breakthroughs at home. I did not miss Breakthrough at all and Streeth Wraith allowed for some broken chain dredging. The fact that its uncounterable is what makes it cream. Its a page taken from manaless dredge yes, but it had been a thing once before. I just wanted to be able to have additional gas without the requirement of mana. Sometimes you get wasted, walk into daze, get pierced, get fow'd etc..This just gives a big middle finger to all of that and allows you to cruise once again.

My rounds went as followed:

Round 1: William Kang with D & T
Match Score: 1-0
Round 2: Nathan Situ with U/W/R Delver
Match Score: 2-0
Round 3: Daniel R. with Jund Lands
Match Score: 3-0
Round 4: Vidianto Wijaya with U/W/R Delver
Match Score: 3-1
Round 5: Stephen Gee with Shardless BUG
Match Score: 3-2
Round 6: ??? with MUD Welder
Match Score: 4-2
Round 7: Danny Batterman with Nic Fit/Food Chain
Match Score: 5-2

At the end of round 6 I was in 9th place, however, my breakers were solid as I had only lost to the 1st (Vidi) & 2nd seed (Stephen G).
Round 7 had me paired against Danny with Food Chain Pod. I won game one in the face of a turn 1 Deahtrite Shaman into a turn 2 Scavenging Ooze with a green up. I was able to accomplish this by fizzling the Ooze's ability with a well timed Street Wraith Cycle. It also helped that I had a 2nd one in my opener. I recurred 3 Ichorids and flooded the board with multiple zombies which left me with enough power on board to close the game out. Game 2 he FOW'd my Faithless looting and then Cabal Therapie'd away the careful study I had in my hand. I still had 1 more outlet in the form of Faithless looting and at this point his hand was pretty bare as it no longer had any meaningful interaction. Eventually the game rolls out in my favor. The win cemented my placement into the top 8 being seded 7th.

Top 8:

Round 8: Stephen Gee with Shardless BUG
2-0

The way the brackets worked out I would get to play Stephen once again. This time I was able to pull out the win and secure a spot in the top 4. Ultimately we ended up splitting the fetches. I took home a Flooded Strand and a Scalding Tarn for my troubles. :)

EDIT: I'm still a proponent of Quadlazer. Although its nice having that Dread Return sometimes as it allows you to amass a zombie army before a cage or RIP comes down assuming they don't drop it turn 2.

I dropped breakthrough for wraiths a while ago and enjoyed it personally. Glad someone else enjoyed it and had some success with it (:

[TableTopMagic]

Oh bla...
Does anyone have any good list for Turn one Dredge?

[JPoJohnson]

Oh bla...
Does anyone have any good list for Turn one Dredge?

Just to clarify: You're asking for a list that maximizes the consistency of a T1 win/all-in combo?

[TableTopMagic]

Just to clarify: You're asking for a list that maximizes the consistency of a T1 win/all-in combo?

Ya, pretty much. I mostly play Manaless or Quadlazer. Just I want to test with a fast turn one list for if the meta switchs to fast combo. Just looking for good lists to start with. Make sure my head is in the right direction if a meta shift does happen.

[Que]

Ya, pretty much. I mostly play Manaless or Quadlazer. Just I want to test with a fast turn one list for if the meta switchs to fast combo. Just looking for good lists to start with. Make sure my head is in the right direction if a meta shift does happen.

Imo the only time I really want a flamekin Zealot or Flayer of the Hatebound kill is against something like lands where they can tutor up Tabernacle on their turn after you've made a horde of zombies and basically blow you out. From there they just need something like Maze of Ith (you most likely will only have a couple of lands to pay for a couple of zombies) or even Glacial Chasm to stop you.

I think the Quadlazer list is fine against "fast combo". You're essentially "going off" by mind twisting their hand away and stopping them from doing anything relevant. This is where having a knowledge of the matchup becomes key in knowing what to name against those other combo decks and maximizing the efficiency of Therapy. By having the Turn 1 Dredge version you're sacrificing consistency by loading your deck with multiple Dread Returns and creatures (flamekin, flayer) that essentially do nothing unless they're in the graveyard. While storm decks are generally a turn faster you can always shore up the matchup via your sb. You can still have a DR package there bringing in things like Iona, Shield of Emeria against Storm variants, Elesh Norn against the mirror and Elves if you wish, Mindbreak Trap against Belcher and the aforementioned Storm Decks, etc..

Thats my experience anyway.

[KobeBryan]

Imo the only time I really want a flamekin Zealot or Flayer of the Hatebound kill is against something like lands where they can tutor up Tabernacle on their turn after you've made a horde of zombies and basically blow you out. From there they just need something like Maze of Ith (you most likely will only have a couple of lands to pay for a couple of zombies) or even Glacial Chasm to stop you.

I think the Quadlazer list is fine against "fast combo". You're essentially "going off" by mind twisting their hand away and stopping them from doing anything relevant. This is where having a knowledge of the matchup becomes key in knowing what to name against those other combo decks and maximizing the efficiency of Therapy. By having the Turn 1 Dredge version you're sacrificing consistency by loading your deck with multiple Dread Returns and creatures (flamekin, flayer) that essentially do nothing unless they're in the graveyard. While storm decks are generally a turn faster you can always shore up the matchup via your sb. You can still have a DR package there bringing in things like Iona, Shield of Emeria against Storm variants, Elesh Norn against the mirror and Elves if you wish, Mindbreak Trap against Belcher and the aforementioned Storm Decks, etc..

Thats my experience anyway.

Joseph ur a pretty good dredge player...mind twisting people's hands away isn't as easy as you make it sound man.

[Que]

Joseph ur a pretty good dredge player...mind twisting people's hands away isn't as easy as you make it sound man.

Cabal Therapy is my favorite card mein. I'm biased. :P I think one of the strengths of the deck is pulling insane value from that card. Thats why knowing which cards can adversely hurt you is really important. Once you get your engine online there are really only a handful of cards you'd really care about.

[Arksz]

Howdy Everyone!

I am trying to get a Legacy Scene going at my LGS and and trying to build up a few decks I can lend to people. I currently play Elves and Miracles, have most of the cards for non green delver lists. I was very interested in Dredge since it works on a totally different axis than the typical deck.

My main question is can I build the deck without LEDs?
I took a look at the Manaless version and it doesn't seem as interesting or fun. I understand it wouldn't be as explosive, but would it still be competitive? Could someone point me towards a list?

[jimmythegreek]

Howdy Everyone!

I am trying to get a Legacy Scene going at my LGS and and trying to build up a few decks I can lend to people. I currently play Elves and Miracles, have most of the cards for non green delver lists. I was very interested in Dredge since it works on a totally different axis than the typical deck.

My main question is can I build the deck without LEDs?
I took a look at the Manaless version and it doesn't seem as interesting or fun. I understand it wouldn't be as explosive, but would it still be competitive? Could someone point me towards a list?

First off....manaless is my favorite and in my opinion most consistent version of dredge. I have seen alot of lists that dont use leds and instead use tireless tribes in their place. I used to play led dredge but it didnt fit my play style. Leds are very all in and im a little more conservative, so yes you can play dredge without leds.....competitively. Regardless, keep dredging!

[JPoJohnson]

Howdy Everyone!

I am trying to get a Legacy Scene going at my LGS and and trying to build up a few decks I can lend to people. I currently play Elves and Miracles, have most of the cards for non green delver lists. I was very interested in Dredge since it works on a totally different axis than the typical deck.

My main question is can I build the deck without LEDs?
I took a look at the Manaless version and it doesn't seem as interesting or fun. I understand it wouldn't be as explosive, but would it still be competitive? Could someone point me towards a list?

There are two viable versions of dredge:
1. LED Dredge
2. Manaless Dredge

Do yes elf a favor and don't play LEDless dredge.

[Final Fortune]

There are two viable versions of dredge:
1. LED Dredge
2. Manaless Dredge

Do yes elf a favor and don't play LEDless dredge.

LEDless Dredge is absolutely fine or at least competitive as long as the meta doesn't require you to race other combo decks, it's objectively better vs any aggro-control deck with Deathrite Shaman.

[JPoJohnson]

LEDless Dredge is absolutely fine or at least competitive as long as the meta doesn't require you to race other combo decks, it's objectively better vs any aggro-control deck with Deathrite Shaman.

I would say Manaless Dredge is more viable than LEDless so since the costs are quite similar, I'm not sure why you would choose to run LEDless unless you just disliked the playstyle of Manaless.

[Michael Keller]

I would say Manaless Dredge is more viable than LEDless so since the costs are quite similar, I'm not sure why you would choose to run LEDless unless you just disliked the playstyle of Manaless.

Oh boy.

This is a matter of opinion and has a lot of variables associated with it. One may be more viable than another in a given meta.

[JPoJohnson]

Oh boy.

This is a matter of opinion and has a lot of variables associated with it. One may be more viable than another in a given meta.

Honestly curious:
What meta would you play LEDless over mana less or LED?

[Michael Keller]

Metas where Cage and RiP are less prevalent. Even assuming they are, you have options out of the board.

[GoblinZ]

Honestly curious:
What meta would you play LEDless over mana less or LED?

And I think LEDless dredge is less vulnerable to spell pierce or flusterstorm than LED Dredge is

[Arksz]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! Hope I didn't start something haha.

I took another look at the Manaless list. I was also more interested in the LED/Less version since it seems to not completely fold to RIP and get time walked by discard.
But it seems the list have lots of cards that crossover. I guess I could pick them up and down the line maybe get some LEDs.

[Final Fortune]

I would say Manaless Dredge is more viable than LEDless so since the costs are quite similar, I'm not sure why you would choose to run LEDless unless you just disliked the playstyle of Manaless.

Not every one wants to play Manaless Dredge because even tho' it's a good deck it's not a deck that really allows you to leverage your play skill over your opponent, I'd play LEDless Dredge in any meta game where both Deathrite Shaman and Rest in Peace were prevalent which is ironically the case right now because I see UBWg Blade decks every where. I can't say it would be the best choice, but it's definitely better at dealing with varied kinds of hate because it has SB answers and it's certainly viable at the very least. I think it might also technically be better in any meta defined by aggro like Elves or Affinity.