[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[Manipulato]

Hi Team players,
today I went 41 with The Team. We were 17 players and I played the standard list exept for 1 Pierce instead of the 4th FoW.

My MU were:

Round 1: Mono R Burn
I won 2:0 easily.

1:0

Round 2: Grixis Delver (The list from the last SCG Top 8er)
Game 1 I lost against Stifle + Wasteland because I saw only Sea & Shaman. Game 2+3 I won with 3 Wasteland & pressure.

2:0

Round 3: BW Deadguy
In the 1st Game he kept a greedy hand with 1 land & Top and got punished for it because he drew his 2nd land in TV I think and I was way ahead with Shaman, Delver & Goyf plus Daze backup.
In game 2 we had a discard & resource war which I won because of Hymn. Null Rod took care of Jitte & Top and my Goyf went to town.

3:0

Round 4: Junk (With Mother & Mindsencor etc)
Game 1 I resolved more creatures than he drew removal for it. 2 Tombstalker raced his 2 Shaman with Jitte .
Game 2 went in his favour because of 3 Wasteland + Sword for Shaman.
Game 3 was a close and really intensive game! I resolved a creature, he destroyed it, I dropped a land he wasted it etc...In the end my 2 Shaman could burn out his last lifepoints (I love damage shooting Birds :-)).

4:0

Round 5: ANT Storm Combo
My opponent was on 3:1 so he didn't exept my Draw offer.
Game 1 lost to a error of mine after he resolved a Past in Flames
Game 2 he got crushed with Null Rod, Pierce, Hymn + pressure.
After Game 2 thought it would maybe better for him to draw because its a bad MU for him and he must leave because he had a date, so we drew because no other was on 41

So, I went 1st with 4 wins & 1 draw and picked a Nm German FWB Plateau

My Sideboard was :
2 Golgari Charm
2 Disfigure
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Null Rod
2 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Spell Pierce
1 Force of Will

I never used Pulse today and I missed my 3rd copy of Charm & Disfigure so maybe I change a bit. Null Rod was good against Jitte & Top but sadly I never faced Miracles or DnT...

Greetings

[KobeBryan]

This is my decklist. Some guy was flaming me for bringing in daze on the play game 3...when i dazed his TNN. Did i board wrong? I took out my 3 force of will, 1 daze, 1 library, for 2 charm, 1 disfigure, 1 liliana, 1 null rod against RUW delver

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Dark Confidant

3 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseize

4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs

2 Disfigure
1 Sylvan Library


SB: 3 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Disfigure
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Creeping Tar Pit

[HammafistRoob]

No you didn't, bringing Daze back in is definitely acceptable. Against some people, I actually don't board them out if they play right into them. If he was raging about being Dazed he was just mad, you obviously caught him off guard.

[Esper3k]

Yeah in g2, if they're not playing around Daze, I think bringing them back in is fine.

[KobeBryan]

Yeah in g2, if they're not playing around Daze, I think bringing them back in is fine.

Lets just say I never took out the dazes...what other card can i board in in place of daze. Its not like I would ever bring FOW in this matchup.

[phazonmutant]

Lets just say I never took out the dazes...what other card can i board in in place of daze. Its not like I would ever bring FOW in this matchup.

Actually, you do. I was on a huge losing streak to UWR Delver where I never won a game on the draw mostly because they tempo'd me out. I started leaving in a couple Forces on the play and it's been better (3-0 I think). It's critical to be able to regain tempo just to claw yourself to a position where your 2-for-1s like Hymn and your fat creatures can take over.

[KobeBryan]

Actually, you do. I was on a huge losing streak to UWR Delver where I never won a game on the draw mostly because they tempo'd me out. I started leaving in a couple Forces on the play and it's been better (3-0 I think). It's critical to be able to regain tempo just to claw yourself to a position where your 2-for-1s like Hymn and your fat creatures can take over.

I took out the hymns for seizes because I play a lot of blade decks.

I also don't like how i don't do anything turn 2 and all i do is a hymn without something to follow up with the DRS.

[Sturtzilla]

Did i board wrong? I took out my 3 force of will, 1 daze, 1 library, for 2 charm, 1 disfigure, 1 liliana, 1 null rod against RUW delver.

I very often keep in some number of Dazes regardless of being on the play or draw. Their curve is about the same as ours but in general they are playing fewer lands. We also have Deathrite which helps make our mana base more stable. I think that Daze is typically fine against them. It also forces them get to 4 mana or 3 mana plus a Daze to be able to cast TNN safely. Then there is the question of a particular player's skill level. If they play around it, it may be worth siding out. If they play headlong into it, keep them in.

[Barbed Blightning]

Some guy was flaming me for bringing in daze on the play game 3...when i dazed his TNN.

Lol. He mad

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[order]

Whats the strategy against Jund(with punishing fire)?

My list user BOB instead of Tombstalker/True-Name, so i have biggers problems to punishing fire.

[Barbed Blightning]

Whats the strategy against Jund(with punishing fire)?

My list user BOB instead of Tombstalker/True-Name, so i have biggers problems to punishing fire.

I suppose it is to run tombstalker or TNN

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[KobeBryan]

Whats the strategy against Jund(with punishing fire)?

My list user BOB instead of Tombstalker/True-Name, so i have biggers problems to punishing fire.

I run 2 surgical extractions

[Purgatory]

Whats the strategy against Jund(with punishing fire)?

My list user BOB instead of Tombstalker/True-Name, so i have biggers problems to punishing fire.

In my experience, Winter Orb is a beating vs them.

[defector]

I'm picking up BUG Delver and giving it a go. I played to a 2-2 today at my local 4 rounder.

Round 1 Miracles 0-2
Round 2 U/B Tezz 0-2
Round 3 Pox 2-1
Round 4 Tin Fins 2-0

This is what I am currently running:

Mana-20-
Fetch X9
Wasteland X4
U/G Sea X4
Bayou X2
Trop X1

Creatures: 14
Delver X4
DRS X4
Goyf X4
Bob X2

Black: 6
Thoughtseize X4
Lilli X2

Blue: 16
Daze X4
Ponder X4
Brainstorm X4
FoW X4

Gold: 4
Abrupt Decay X4

I cut the Hymns for TS today after playing as it seemed like the deck really wants more turn 1 plays. I played horribly so I'm not taking the record too seriously, but Miracles seemed very tough. The Miracles player I played against was very good, so the gulf may narrow with some experience, but the mu seemed pretty rough. I wish there was a better way to increase the threat density. I am still unsure of the sideboard, but 2 Clique seems good for now. Would love some Miracles advice. I'l take this back to the local next Sunday so hopefully I'll improve with some practice. I'll post results as they go.

I'm looking at SCG Detroit and I saw that one of the guys cut the Lillis. That seems unorthodox, but the deck would love some threat density increase. I don't know how I feel with TNN as it seems lie American Delver is the better TNN deck, but I may be wrong. I wonder about two cliques main, swapping the Bayou for a Trop and having Daze a lil more live, I'll test allong that line and see what i get.

cheers
defector

[Anachronism]

Recently I've been thinking about splashing red in the sideboard mainly for Red Elemental Blast and potentially some Fire Covenant or Grim Lavamancer. I'm not proposing we go full on BURG with Bolts in the main because BURG's mana base is awful. I just want to board the red against Sneak and Show and other decks that aren't going toW Wasteland us (Miracles, other blue combo decks, Elves). Sneak and Show can be difficult to tech against with only BUG colors, and Red Blasts improve the matchup significantly. I know that black already has a lot of removal, but some of the best options like Massacre and Perish are obviously awkward, and Dread of Night and Virtue's Ruin are too narrow for my taste. Golgari Charm is good, but not every creature has 1 toughness. Fire Covenant is an incredibly efficient mass removal spell. It shines against Elves, but can be awkward against the other tribal decks I suppose. Overall, Red Blasts might be the only card worth splashing, but that is still a worthy addition in my opinion.

[Barbed Blightning]

Recently I've been thinking about splashing red in the sideboard mainly for Red Elemental Blast and potentially some Fire Covenant or Grim Lavamancer. I'm not proposing we go full on BURG with Bolts in the main because BURG's mana base is awful. I just want to board the red against Sneak and Show and other decks that aren't going toW Wasteland us (Miracles, other blue combo decks, Elves). Sneak and Show can be difficult to tech against with only BUG colors, and Red Blasts improve the matchup significantly. I know that black already has a lot of removal, but some of the best options like Massacre and Perish are obviously awkward, and Dread of Night and Virtue's Ruin are too narrow for my taste. Golgari Charm is good, but not every creature has 1 toughness. Fire Covenant is an incredibly efficient mass removal spell. It shines against Elves, but can be awkward against the other tribal decks I suppose. Overall, Red Blasts might be the only card worth splashing, but that is still a worthy addition in my opinion.

Toxic Deluge (provided you are not playing into it yourself) is far more effective than covenant.

REB is nice, but how do you propose we play them? A singleton volcanic/ badlands main? In the end, I still feel like spell pierce and discard will get us there

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[Asthereal]

I feel the mana base is stretched as it is, needing U for Delver and cantrips, BB for Hymn, Lily and Stalker and G for Goyf.
Adding red will wreck it even further, causing you to lose games just because of the awkward mana base.

Why do you want red? Maybe we can solve your question within our current colours.

[Anachronism]

Toxic Deluge (provided you are not playing into it yourself) is far more effective than covenant.

REB is nice, but how do you propose we play them? A singleton volcanic/ badlands main? In the end, I still feel like spell pierce and discard will get us there

Toxic Deluge is generally difficult to play around because this deck thrives on tempo plays. Sure, some games against creature decks you will be kept busy in the first few turns countering and killing things, but generally you want to stick a threat early and kill stuff just long enough to sneak a win in. Deluge will typically kill anything you play other than goyf if you are getting your money's worth out of it. Fire Covenant may not always be as efficient as Deluge, but it is instant and always one-sided which are both huge pluses. But again, access to Fire Covenant isn't nearly as important as REBs, since black has access to a ton of great removal already.

A singleton badlands or volc in the side (or main) will be sufficient against most decks you want REBs against and some decks you want Fire Covenant against.

Asthereal
I feel the mana base is stretched as it is, needing U for Delver and cantrips, BB for Hymn, Lily and Stalker and G for Goyf.
Adding red will wreck it even further, causing you to lose games just because of the awkward mana base.

Why do you want red? Maybe we can solve your question within our current colours.

Red is primarily for REBs, which improve the matchup against Show and Tell decks significantly. Spell Pierce is an on-color option but has obvious disadvantages if the game goes long at all, although hitting Sneak too is nice. Even with a large number of Spell Pierce I still feel unfavored against Sneak and Show. Maybe I would be better off siding Envelop (in addition to needle) against Sneak and Show instead, which would also provide some splash hate against Miracles...but REB is clearly the more powerful spell and would be the obvious choice if you didn't have to splash for it.

[Barbed Blightning]

Toxic Deluge is generally difficult to play around because this deck thrives on tempo plays. Sure, some games against creature decks you will be kept busy in the first few turns countering and killing things, but generally you want to stick a threat early and kill stuff just long enough to sneak a win in. Deluge will typically kill anything you play other than goyf if you are getting your money's worth out of it. Fire Covenant may not always be as efficient as Deluge, but it is instant and always one-sided which are both huge pluses. But again, access to Fire Covenant isn't nearly as important as REBs, since black has access to a ton of great removal already.

A singleton badlands or volc in the side (or main) will be sufficient against most decks you want REBs against and some decks you want Fire Covenant against.



Red is primarily for REBs, which improve the matchup against Show and Tell decks significantly. Spell Pierce is an on-color option but has obvious disadvantages if the game goes long at all, although hitting Sneak too is nice. Even with a large number of Spell Pierce I still feel unfavored against Sneak and Show. Maybe I would be better off siding Envelop (in addition to needle) against Sneak and Show instead, which would also provide some splash hate against Miracles...but REB is clearly the more powerful spell and would be the obvious choice if you didn't have to splash for it.

Generally, I think in the scenarios where I want Deluge (eg Mirran Crusader, Brimaz) Covenant is strictly garbage, to say nothing of Mom or Sword of F&I. While it will suck if we lose a DRS or Delver, if we play smart we should have a follow-up threat, while D&T (or what have you) is stalled out or at the very least slowed.

I still fail to see how eating up 4 sideboard slots for the off chance you may have reb + a red source is a sound plan

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[phazonmutant]

I took out the hymns for seizes because I play a lot of blade decks.

I also don't like how i don't do anything turn 2 and all i do is a hymn without something to follow up with the DRS.

I cut the Hymns for TS today after playing as it seemed like the deck really wants more turn 1 plays. I played horribly so I'm not taking the record too seriously, but Miracles seemed very tough. The Miracles player I played against was very good, so the gulf may narrow with some experience, but the mu seemed pretty rough. I wish there was a better way to increase the threat density. I am still unsure of the sideboard, but 2 Clique seems good for now. Would love some Miracles advice. I'l take this back to the local next Sunday so hopefully I'll improve with some practice. I'll post results as they go.

All y'all cutting Hymn are giving up free wins. Thoughtseize is fine, but it'll never straight-up cripple an opponent. It's a way to get needed card advantage and staying power in tough matchups, and it furthers the land destruction strategy. Yes, having turn 1 plays is important, but there's better things to cut than Hymn - perhaps the 4th Decay for Disfigure? Also, Thoughtseize is good against Blade, but Hymn is the nut too.

I'm not saying you want all 4, but I would be sceptical of a list with fewer than 3.

Defector, Clique is very good, you're right. I usually cut the Tombstalker for a Clique. As far as threats, you should have plenty - Lili and Sylvan are insane against them, and all the other creatures put up a respectable clock. Basically don't go all in unless you need to. Sorry that's not better advice, but it's a really situational matchup.