For whomever may be interested, I posted a miscut Korean Veteran Explorer on eBay. Feel free to check it out. Figured I have no realistic need for it
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
Maelstrom Pulse was exactly what I was missing as an out to... a lot of things.
Maelstrom Pulse is indeed a good card, but I wouldn't cut Deed down by 1 for its inclusion. EDIT: What I mean, is that I'd cut something else before Deed: Deed is just that good, and it overlaps quite a bit with Pulse in terms of token destruction.) Maybe cut the GSZs in your list if you don't rely on them that much?
May I ask what else you were having trouble with?
I ran 3 deeds. 2 MB, 1 SB. I feel comfortable that 2 deeds would be OK for the added ability to have an ability to interact with Planeswalkers. I also replaced my Man-o'-War with Venser, Shaper Savant as well, because I realized that's probably another decent out to planeswalkers as well as being nice in the S&T Matchups as well as Dark Depths, and works very nicely in the Recurring Nightmare fun-times. Why I'd even consider it? I know Miracles is a terrible matchup, but I'm looking to shore up what I can. I rarely ever lose to Entreat vs them. I know how and when to sit on my Deed against them, how resolving Glen Elendra's really good, but the decks lack of interactivity with a resolved Jace is positively painful.
I'm thinking of when I want 3 deed, what matchups I want it in, and they're mostly D&T, Merfolk, Elves, UB Tezz, or Gobbos. Goblins and Merfolk I usually feel are decent matchups and don't get much better with a 3rd Deed. D&T is a matchup where I really want it (well, most Stoneforge matchups), but I figured the combined abilities of Doomwake Giant (which has actually been pretty decent in the matchups where I've played it from the board), Golgari Charm, 2 Deeds + Maelstrom Pulse has some value. Pulse has value in addition to Deed in the sense that it's actual targeted removal, on boardstates where you sort of want to keep your DRS's it makes sense. Actually, it's cutting the spot of the 2nd Golgari Charm as well. Replace a Deed + Golgari Charm with Maelstrom Pulse + Doomwake Giant. It
The other cut is Notion Thief for me, because, as much as I want to think, it's the biggest blowout, my ability to beat BUG variants hasn't been bad at all. Most of the time I don't care if they resolve Brainstorm/Ancestral Vision midgame (when I would cast Notion Thief) because they're encroaching on territory where it's impossible for them to actually get ahead. It's also really good vs Show and Tell decks, I just haven't found a card I want in there to replace it. I don't know what matchup I want to add another card to. Honestly it might just be a Phyrexian Revoker as a catchall slot. If it was possible to actually run a Trinket Mage package, I'd rather do that (with Pithing Needle & Nihil Spellbomb), but the space is just non-existent in the board. The other option would be to run that Creeping Tar Pit in the side, but that's probably near the bottom of the list.
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Underground Sea
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Pestermite
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 Grave Titan
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Birthing Pod
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Brainstorm
Sideboard
2 Arcane Laboratory
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Notion Thief
1 Golgari Charm
2 Swan Song
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Duress
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
Last edited by tadiou; 04-30-2014 at 08:32 PM.
I admit im very unfamiliar with pod lists, but i believe ya could cut Underground Sea for Tar Pit. Not sure enough to suggest auto replacement but something for testing
After 3 weeks with 3 tournament and little adjustment i have won a 25 players tournament yesterday.
Matchups:
2:0 vs Manaless Dredge (Deathrite, EE, Tormod's Crypt)
2:1 vs Sneak Show (G1 a good portion of luck with Pithing Needle + Sower of Temptation)
2:0 vs Jund Lands (Needle, Tormod's Crypt and active Pod)
2:1 vs Miracles (i wasted G1 but gain advantage G2+3, Needle and Glen are Key)
1:1 vs Grixis (we shared the same car so we draw, we played for price 1 or 2 and he got me 2:1 with multiple stifle)
After score, i was still higher ranked and take the first place. As the weeks before, BUG Pod is very funny, but you need enough concentration for all the decision-trees and i still made some mistakes. (more and more respect for Svknoe 10nd GP place!)
Mainboard:
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
2 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Baleful Strix
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan
1 Shriekmaw
1 Trinket Mage
1 Acidic Slime
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Birthing Pod
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Recurring Nightmare
Sideboard
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 1 Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Envelop
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 1 Fleshbag Marauder
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
Sadly the deck has only a few flex slots so we can't use all the available options. For the "weak" 3drop Slot (besides Kitchen Finks and Eternal Witness), i chosed 1 Trinket Mage. He is blue and you gain a little utility package (and with Pod-Chain a way to tutor for it). I haven't found space for Decay, so 1 Engineered Explosives was an automatic choice as a removal (it fill the gap, if deed is to slow or blocked with revoker/needle, or you won't kill your dudes), but the best slot was conquered from 1 Pithing Needle. Nobody expected a maindeck needle. You can shut down so many problems (Thespian Stage, Sensei's Diving Top, Sneak Attack, Equipment and all the random Stuff like Grindstone or some Utility Creatures).
I like the new toy "Doomwake Giant" and will definitively test it. Acidic Slime is the weakest 5 drop, but last tournament he was good enough (killed 1 Thespian and 1 Sneak Attack).
Main Problem for this deck is, that (most of the time) you only attack with 1 or 2 power dudes and haven't enough pressure. Giant brings a 4/6 body, which isn't so bad in legacy and so he can apply some pressure on its own.
-----------------------------
@Scapeshift: I definitively supports "Ralfs" Build with 1 Karakas - it feels good to surprise some unfair matchups with an additional out against Sneak Show, Reanimate, or Marit Large (with BUG Pod you have Sower, Image or Fleshbag Marrauder to fill the gap).
TEAM MtG Berlin
Can't say I agree with the Karakas in Scapeshift. I've been playing this version for well over a year now, and from experience I can tell you that the manabase is the achilles heel of this deck. That's why a lot of the original utility lands (phyrexian tower, volrath's stronghold, kessig wolfrun,...) got removed for fetchlands, making you have to mulligan less. Going back one step and adding yet another land that produces no relevant mana seems like a bad idea, certainly considering the marginal benefits that it brings.
It depends of your metagame.
The Scape list posted p.343 is featuring a lone "Phyrexian tower". I use a lone "karakas" in this particular spot as well as other people would use a fourth fetch.
As long as you are keeping at least 14 lands which can produce green by turn 1 in your deck, you are good to go.
Some like it better with 15 "forest".
I think the only MU where color matters is the one which needs a "swamp" in your opening hand, then with the posted list (and with mine) you've got only 10 "swamps" instead of 11.
But by design, if you wanna play T1 -> swamp -> discard, I'm pretty sure Scape should not be your first deck pick.
Adding Karakas was like "two birds, one stone" in my meta. Why ?
Without a lot of commitment (just one card), you have now 2 cards in your MD which answers S&T into a fatty.
1) Karakas
2) Primeval Titan (grab the karakas)
Not to mention odd blowouts against unfair deck (reanimator, marit lage etc...)
Hello all,
This is my first time posting on The Source. I'm a veteran poster at mtgsalvation, but their Nic Fit thread gets very little activity, so I haven't gotten a whole lot of responses to my queries.
Just a couple of questions.
After a long time playing Pox, I've decided to retire my prison list and pick up a new deck. Nic Fit and all its variations seem very intriguing to me, especially the Birthing Pod lists. I've seen several versions of Bug Pod doing well at larger events, as well as Punishing Fit lists and Scapewish lists also. I think, at this point, I'm most inclined to build a Junk list (since I already own the duals for it), so I'm wondering: how viable do you veteran Nic Fitters think a Junk Pod list could be?
Here's a possible list (which I've proxied and tested a little bit):
Creatures
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Wall of Blossoms
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Grave Titan
1 Sun Titan
1 Armada Wurm
Spells
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Birthing Pod
1 Recurring Nightmare
Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
Sadistic Hypnotist hasn't seemed extremely good to me, and Armada Wurm (similar to but worse than Broodmate Dragon) may just be unnecessary, but it is nice sometimes to have a huge monster to fetch with Green Sun's Zenith.
Board (incomplete and inchoate)
Most Likelies
4 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Golgari Charm
Possibles
2 Choke
2 Cranial Extraction (a crappier version of Slaughter Games, of course, and probably not viable)
2 Mindbreak Trap
I understand that Nic Fit has good matchups against fair decks and bad matchups against combo decks, so the board should mostly be dedicated to defeating combo. So, what are the best strategies for this deck when approaching a combo-heavy meta? What cards might I be overlooking that could improve this type of matchup?
Obviously Bug Pod, with its four Forces in the board, should have a (relatively) decent combo matchup, but what do non-blue Nic Fit decks do to defeat combo?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
Sincerely,
gigapatrick
Last edited by gigapatrick; 04-28-2014 at 10:29 AM.
I was buying Melira Pod for Modern and noticed that I was $50 away from building BUG Pod Fit in Legacy, so I bit the bullet and now have another backup deck. Seems interesting, but is the Murderous Redcap really worth that slot? I understand the interactions with Redcap and the various sacrifice outlets (Recurring Nightmare, Therapy, etc), but it still looks underwhelming on paper.
This is the list I'm starting from:
1 Acidic Slime
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Grave Titan
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thragtusk
4 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Birthing Pod
1 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
1 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
In my opinion, Redcap is really good. Persist is ideal for Pod-Chains (or Therapy etc.). BUG Pod has the "weakest" (but good enough) matchup against fair decks and is light on removal. So you need options like Redcap to fight creatures. Remember, a Redcap can also shoot down a planeswalker, or kill your opponent if you face moat or a scary board situation. Sure - it is better, if you can abuse it with Nightmare, Therapy, Pod or Stronghold.
The Pod-Engine is very different, you dont fight back with 1on1 Removal, you must use various creatures:
-kill (Big)Stuff with Shriekmaw
-steel something with Sower of Temptation (and sac the enemy creature with Pod, Therapy etc. if needed)
-copy something with Phantasmal Image
-shoot small utlity dudes (a lot of in legacy ;) ) down with Redcap
-block stuff to dead with Strix
So this decks plays very different, you don't cast a beater and fire removal spells around it to keep the path clear. Its quite complicated with all the decision-trees, but this deck can have a lot of answers for most situations.
EDIT:
@Arsenal - deck list:
Looks like a normal shell, but i recommend a third 3drop, because you often chain from the bottom and also want stuff for the early game. The deck can work without a third 5drop, but i would never touch the amount of 3 and 4 drops. As i said, you haven't enought space for all the options.
I think you have 3 flex slots (see Svknoe GP List):
-you can cut the 1off Zenith (not so much green creatures)
-you can cut the third 5drop (in my opinion Acidic Slime is the weakest here, but you lose a tutorable out against some permanents)
-you can cut the 1off Decay (because 1off is very random, so two would be better, or you can put them into side)
Last weeks i also cutted 1 Recurring Nightmare for 1 Liliana, because the Planeswaker Lady is strong on its own - but last tournament i give Nightmare a try - it was ok - its a bomb for lategame (to chain it 2-3 times a turn) or against discard (Hymn etc.) to fight back if you have lost some big stuff. But most established lists run the black enchantment anyway, so it will work good enough (and remember the new Doomwake Giant with it ;) )
TEAM MtG Berlin
I'm running 2 maindeck Abrupt Decay. With Acidic Slime, I like having a tutorable answer to problematic cards that I can't otherwise deal with once they're resolved; Slime also can hold off a fatty from swinging through until they find their removal for Slime. I suppose I could cut the 1-of GSZ, but I've always viewed 1 GSZ + 3 Pod as the 4-card engine that makes this deck go. And you're correct, this deck isn't overflowing with green creatures, but that's why I only run 1 GSZ; GSZ is also an out on a Revoker/Needle/Null Rod on my Pod engine.
Alright: gonna be running the current list (or some variation of it: need to find someone who can loan me the Forces for the event and possibly trade a Bayou for my extra Tropical Island) at SCG Cincy on May 4th, and any insight y'all could give regarding that meta and/or my list would be greatly appreciated.
(60/15) BUG Fit
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Timbermare
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacomb
3 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dryad Arbor
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
///
4 Force of Will
1 Master Biomancer
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Trinket Mage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sakura Tribe Elder
It's pretty much the heel for most of the versions, and why the 4th DRS is absolutely clutch in most situations.
Blows up a DRS in the DRS wars (they happen), flipped Delvers, late game Stoneforge Mystics, and there's a lot of great interaction between persist creatures & phantasmal image especially with show and tell. Gives you more targeted interaction with creatures, which is never bad. Oh, and kill -1'd jaces.
GSZ i don't think is absolutely necessary in pod decks, but it's a card you have to balance out. I think if you're running cards like Acidic Slime, it's better, but if you're running smaller, more castable cards (Uktabi/V. Shaman), I think it's not too bad. I've cut it, but I'd see where I'd want to run it.
That's what Recurring Nightmare is for. You create board position that's way too much for your opponent to deal with. You bait their DRS out, you slam that Recurring Nightmare so hard and so fast, they'll scoop 'em up.
4 pernicious deed + 1 dryad arbor = wtf? I also don't like timbermare at all, especially when you're already running 2 creeping tar pits. Why no Thrun?
If dryad arbor is used to play pernicious deed, it did its job.
Like pfire said, as long as Arbor provides some mana, it has done its job. Arbor is included just to help with certain scenarios within the combo matchup.
Also, ive been fairly unimpressed by Thrun as a whole lately especially when GSZd for against counterspells.
I'm not seeing it. Want to walk me through that logic? Is it just for the turn 2 deed?
If you really need to play deed early, dryad arbor is great as it helps you ramp into deed. If you don't need deed early, you can wait and arbor allows you to ramp into other things in the meantime.
Two important aspects to any combo or aggro-combo (i.e. Elves!, possibly Affinity?) matchup: they typically don't have the mana disruption where Dryad Arbor, Bayou, and Tropical Island would normally be a liability, and they typically win fast enough to warrant early contingency plans.
Although an early deed is great against Empty the Warren tokens and idle LEDs and Petals, the biggest boon from having 4 GSZ + 1 Arbor is that against combo I have 12 one-drop creatures (4 Vet, 4 DRS, 4 GSZ into Arbor) to flashback Cabal Therapy with, making Cabal Therapy much more reliable in the event that it does whiff the first time.
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