[Primer] Elves!

[dte]

Good luck too elves players at the BOM!
Julian, we hope that you will have a finish as good as the last one!

[haganbmj]

Played another local event and went 4-0.
2-1 v Deadguy Ale
2-1 v BUG Delver (with multiple Marsh Casualties in the board)
2-1 v GW Prison
2-0 v Noble Fish (bahra_'s list)

I've been running a fairly stock GBw 60, with Viridian Shaman and Progenitus in the main as my third Natural Order target on account of my local stores being fairly combo light. Ooze has been cut to the board to accommodate the space.
Coming up on the StarCityGames open in Knoxville next week, however, I'm looking to tone my board a bit more towards a wider field.

Recently, I've been playing with this to moderate levels of success. Pridemage has felt a bit niche, and Teeg generally feels underwhelming. The Ooze as well feels a bit awkward to board in, and I'd rather it be in the main deck if anywhere.

2 Pithing Needle
4 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Natural Order
1 Ruric Thar

I was suggested tonight to try out Elvish Champion if I'm fearing Zealous Persecution or Golgari Charm/Marsh Casualties from BUG decks this coming weekend, and that doesn't sound too far fetched considering how many those kinds of lists seem to have access to. At the moment though I'm just trying to figure out if I have some form of gaping hole worth filling.

[D@N]

If you expect storm, why cutting the cabal + teeg plan? Against bug, I love my lone copy of Wilt Leaf Liege, and against patriot, bug, rug and miracle, the 4th decay is very good. I would remove the harmonic silver, always seems to be underperforming to me and from the listed deck, only comes in against miracle. What deck is playing drop of honey??

if true name gives rug fits then why wouldnt you agree that the actual progenitus wouldnt be better?. u are right that games 2/3 ruric is bad because of submerge but you should be boarding it out for progen anyway. ruric is basicly there to nut their delvers or geese game one then board out for something else. teeg was in my list originally for miracles but its a do nothing since they just swords/sweep which is what i was trying to stop. out of storm and blue decks there is def. more blue decks especially miracles so i think having pin point hate might be better vs. storm until i can get something going.

[Echelon]

TNN doesn't require another creature in play when cast, is 1 mana cheaper and often has counter back-up. TNN-players have a much easier time getting it onto the battlefield then we do when trying to land NO-Pro.

[dte]

Played another local event and went 4-0.
2-1 v Deadguy Ale
2-1 v BUG Delver (with multiple Marsh Casualties in the board)
2-1 v GW Prison
2-0 v Noble Fish (bahra_'s list)

I've been running a fairly stock GBw 60, with Viridian Shaman and Progenitus in the main as my third Natural Order target on account of my local stores being fairly combo light. Ooze has been cut to the board to accommodate the space.
Coming up on the StarCityGames open in Knoxville next week, however, I'm looking to tone my board a bit more towards a wider field.

Recently, I've been playing with this to moderate levels of success. Pridemage has felt a bit niche, and Teeg generally feels underwhelming. The Ooze as well feels a bit awkward to board in, and I'd rather it be in the main deck if anywhere.

Ooze is very good in the main, but if it isn't - which feels wrong to me, as it is overperforming vs bug & rug - it should be in the SB.

2 Pithing Needle
4 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Natural Order
1 Ruric Thar

I was suggested tonight to try out Elvish Champion if I'm fearing Zealous Persecution or Golgari Charm/Marsh Casualties from BUG decks this coming weekend, and that doesn't sound too far fetched considering how many those kinds of lists seem to have access to. At the moment though I'm just trying to figure out if I have some form of gaping hole worth filling.


If you want a lord effect, try Wilt-Leaf Liege. I play it myself and wouldn't think of removing it from my SB. It is far better than Elvish champion as it resists to decay, bolt, punishing fire & Rough/tumble, which are all in jund/rug/bug where you want to put a lord effect in.

About proge vs rug, I do not have any doubt about the effect of proge once into play.
But, like echelon said well, proge is far harder to put into play vs rug for the following reasons:
- 4 manas instead of 3;
- noncrea => spell pierce;
- is played in blue deck which have often counter back up;
- card disadventage if you get countered.

It's sure that NO-pro is a valid pland post board. But you have to quit something in order to bring in some decays. I just prefer to cut in the NO-plan than the glimpse one because the latter will always let you get some card advantage early on, while NO is often card disadvantage.

[Lemnear]

Looks like Julian is out in round 5 after 3 losses in a row (started with 2 byes) :((

[dte]

What did he loose to?

[Lemnear]

What did he loose to?

I don't know yet. The field looks iffy overall. Barely 1/5 of all decks are BUG Delver/Shardles

[venice]

I think "Berger" finished 1st at BoM after swiss. Congrats! Will be following the Top8 stream tomorrow morning!

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

Looks like Julian is out in round 5 after 3 losses in a row (started with 2 byes) :((

Bummer. I suppose if you win, write, and stream enough that people will be more ready for you. Well, he can't win them all--but it sure fun when he does.

[AznSeal]

What time does coverage start tomorrow in CST?

[Julian23]

What did he loose to?

Miracles, Toxic Deluge Control and Esper. Faced 6 Toxic Deluge over the course of 3 rounds. Against Miracles I had the game on lockdown with Null Rod (for his EE) and Needle on Jace but he successfully blindflipped CB two times, then hit a natural Entreat the Angels. Successfully Therapied him two times, hitting FoW and Counterspell, but he still had the SCM to counter my otherwise lethal NO.

Against Grixis Deluge Control, I successfully Therapied him for Toxic Deluge on turn2, then flashbacked for Cage. He ripped Enevelope for my NO on the next turn, then drew Toxic Deluge.......

Honestly, more than anything this felt like the breakout tournament for Toxic Deluge. In the maindeck. The meta is so hostile towards Elves right now, I really feel the blue-splash has to make a comeback. Be it Envelope or Swan Song, I'm not sure but we can't just keep losing to that card.

[D@N]

@julian: sorry to hear about the bad beats but im wondering what was ur decklist like?

[dte]

Miracles, Toxic Deluge Control and Esper. Faced 6 Toxic Deluge over the course of 3 rounds. Against Miracles I had the game on lockdown with Null Rod (for his EE) and Needle on Jace but he successfully blindflipped CB two times, then hit a natural Entreat the Angels. Successfully Therapied him two times, hitting FoW and Counterspell, but he still had the SCM to counter my otherwise lethal NO.

Against Grixis Deluge Control, I successfully Therapied him for Toxic Deluge on turn2, then flashbacked for Cage. He ripped Enevelope for my NO on the next turn, then drew Toxic Deluge.......

Honestly, more than anything this felt like the breakout tournament for Toxic Deluge. In the maindeck. The meta is so hostile towards Elves right now, I really feel the blue-splash has to make a comeback. Be it Envelope or Swan Song, I'm not sure but we can't just keep losing to that card.

Looks like you were quite unlucky..
On the swan song topic, it seems to have work well for Meciek Berger.
I never playtested it, as it always seemed to me that the beatdown plan is very relevant in the MUs I would side it in. But I will probably test a little bit it, and envelopp as well.

[haganbmj]

Ooze is very good in the main, but if it isn't - which feels wrong to me, as it is overperforming vs bug & rug - it should be in the SB.

If you want a lord effect, try Wilt-Leaf Liege. I play it myself and wouldn't think of removing it from my SB. It is far better than Elvish champion as it resists to decay, bolt, punishing fire & Rough/tumble, which are all in jund/rug/bug where you want to put a lord effect in.

Ooze is fantastic in a few matchups, I'll give it that. I might try and squeeze him back into the main, maybe as the 61st card.

Wilt-Leaf Liege, now there's a card I overlooked, yeah that sounds like a fantastic choice.

@Julian, quite a string of poor matchups there.

[Julian23]

My buddy split the finals of the Big Legacy Trial for the next BoM today with Elves. So not all hope is lost.

Including Swan Songs.

[Lemnear]

I's still prefer Wren's Run Packmaster over Liege. Deathtouch Army Feat. Cradle is insane

[dte]

I's still prefer Wren's Run Packmaster over Liege. Deathtouch Army Feat. Cradle is insane

I've never tried it, but it deserves a try for sure. I believe he may be good in more MUs.

[Lemnear]

I've never tried it, but it deserves a try for sure. I believe he may be good in more MUs.

The Champion-ability even protects an elf from sorcery-speed sweepers

[dte]

Yes, it could help.

On the other hand, the champion ability must feel very clunky when you have a board like dryad/symbiot/elf, or any board with only one elf in general, because every removal wil be such a blow-out and symbiot can't protect from it...

I used to side WLL in every non-W fair MU (plus against esper vs zealous persecution) and have never been disappointed by it. Do you board WRP in the same MUs? Maybe miracle too?

It basicaly des the same as WLL as a non decayable, non boltable, GSZable elf which helps fighting against global -1/-1 effects.

But that's all theory for me, I will definitely try it.