The red version is very focused on establishing a quick blood moon lock and comboing out. Your toolbox is still diverse but a bit slower to access, as your only tutor is recruiter (dem rhymez). If your local meta runs mostly non-basics, this is a good place to play mono-r.Originally Posted by vhirvela
The biggest thing that white splash brings you is enlightened tutor. It allows you to tutor up just about any nonland permanent in the deck that recruiter can't, including most of your sideboard. This also means it's safer to run more artifacts mainboard, which also consequently makes goblin welder better. You don't have to go heavy on welder if you don't want to, but the white splash is a nice home for him. If your local meta has a lot of diverse strategies and you expect bad matchups like ANT, TES, Sneak and Show, then the white splash is going to be better since you can tutor for your answers quicker.
Revoker is a nice card in a lot of our unfavorable matchups. It turns off Lily, turns off sneak attack, and lots of other annoying cards. It's also nice to abuse with welder, they can try to kill it but you can just whip him back at instant speed. I would recommend 2 main or 1 main 1 side for these reasons.
Welder's strength varies depending on your opponent's removal suite, but he is generally very powerful. If you run 2+ though, you have to tailor the deck to him by adding artifacts.
Metamorph is a little slow and generally doesn't really go with the goal of this deck. The reason you see him in older lists is because he used to be a removal spell for annoying legendaries, but this no longer works with the new legend rule.
LED is a cool and underutilized card in this deck. It can be abused with welder and gives us exactly what we need to activate the stone. I don't know if I'd run 4 though, unlike ANT we don't run cards that synergize with an empty hand. However, it works with welder, and I'd like to see someone make it work in an interesting way.
Koth is amazing against miracles but not much else. When he lands against miracles though he will probably win you the game on his own. Also if you ult him behind a wall of blockers you can control the rest of the game in almost any matchup. It's really a meta choice. Chandra is more experimental, I don't like her either though because she's slow and hard to cast at times.
I have nothing constructive to add, but I just want to compliment this deck again. It is very power and so fun to play. I keep seeing new interactions each day.
Today I was playing Nic-Fit (I think) he hit me with an early durress. My hand was Welder, Welder, land, land, bridge, stone, painter. He takes the stone and passes. I play the welder and pass. He hits me with cabal therapy and takes painter. My T2, I top-deck and jam painter (he missed his second land drop). on my T3 I play out another welder and pass. I have no idea what he does, but it isn't exciting enough for me to care. I get a lotus petal for my draw and think "... Wait... So I just win now, right?". Drop petal, Welder1 welds out painter to get stone, I sac the petal tap 2 lands and activate stone, activate Welder2 in response, weld the stone for painter, pass, win.
There are so many little tricks with this deck and it is surprisingly interactive with a great control mechanism for the current greedy meta. Again, I know I am adding nothing to this conversation except maybe convincing someone else to pick it up. Amazing deck. So happy I am picking up the rest of the pieces I need in paper!
You still can make it cleaner and play better. Turn 1 play welder. Turn two play topdecked painter. Eot weld out painter for stone. Now if you draw a land you win t3. Since you don't, now you play welder number two and have surgical protection using the first. Turn 4 you drop petal and activate stone and get painter in response. 2nd one is removal and graveyard protection for painter
Ah, got it.
Thanks!
with the mono red main build. What other wincons do I have besides the grindstone painter combo. if for some reason that Is locked out and I can't activate it or something. (extirpate comes to mind)
1/1 and 2/1 beatdown plan is not a joke, and you get through this more than it comes to mind.
Blood moon makes that b plan easier
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This is also my plan b with mono-red. I have tested out a singleton beat-stick like siege-gang commander, figure of destiny, and Kargan Dragonlord and have found that they are not necessary.
This^^
Lock them out with Moon/Blasts and keep swinging with revokers and chain a few recruiters together.
Edit: This is where Koth can play a big role too. 5/5 mountains beat pretty damn well.
And if you want to really race, you go wild and play your imposing 2/2 monkey for 3.
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Rakka Mar is best beat down plan. So much fun.
I have had my Stones Extracted before, went on a chain Recruiters into Jaya beat down. Still lost buy it was close.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
What is the most basic untweeked mono red imperial painter build there is right now? (including Sideboard)
since I want to build it but I can't quikly find the current consensus....I have seen many lists but they differ with lands and or amound of simian guides etc.
Consult the all mighty front page!
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Quick question (and there may be a simple answer): Is there an issue with cutting a monkey and adding a 3rd petal? It seems that adding another petal and cutting a monkey might help with the white splash. Pros: white source under moon, can be welded. Cons: You lose a beater, you lose the surprise factor by holding up a money and a blast effect, petal must be cast (pretty much the same as the previous con).
Again, somewhat new to this. Can anyone provide a quick answer?
Thanks!
I think you could do it, but if you are going to go down that path, I would push more Welders too.
Personally I like the surprise of having FOW in hand. That never gets old. If you start pushing away from the Ape, having two cards in hand becomes less of a threat. I have lost count how many times I have gotten the "Cards in hand?" line. People who know the deck treat me like I have Force if I have been holding down cards. I feel like going more down the Petal path limits this. Yes, you have more white open, but if you really need white, you should not be sticking moon. If you are in the need of sticking moon, you should have the time not to need the white. That's a mistake I made when I started with the splash. I kept all the white in the side and only brought it in against matches where the Moons came out.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
There is also an unseen factor here : petal is soft to Thalia, guide is not. I am not usually in a hurry after blood moon, and thus I don't need ultra speed of a tutor. Both are good in some situations but u probably like the ape more overall.
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I wouldn't put in another Petal for SSG. I like having the ability to play him as a 2/2 after Moon drops.
Having the surprise Monkey + Blast, Daze/Pierce protection, Grindstone activation is worth way more than another W source IMO.
Any thoughts on adding "Aegis of the Gods" as a one-of in the sideboard?
Why this？ If you splash white, canonist is far better than this one against storm, and I don't think you should board this against jund or Bug in terms of discard...Any thoughts on adding "Aegis of the Gods" as a one-of in the sideboard?
Team Blood, Beijing.
Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands
It stops more than just discard. Jace, Lili, Tendrils, Burn, probe, Grindstone (mirror), Intuition, Tormod's, Vendilion Clique, Grapeshot.
It's just like a Leyline except it's a creature (which makes it more vulnerable)but it's searchable with recruiter. Being able to stop a Jace's fateseal and ult... as well as Lili's -2 and Ult seems decent.
If having him out makes my opponent destroy him instead of a painter... I'm cool with that. Plus a 2/1 for the dork beats.
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