[Deck] Imperial Painter

[drude1]

Having never played white splash, what is my approach to the ANT matchup? How do I sideboard/mulligan?

Funny you should pose this question. I was testing this matchup extensively yesterday, and as a result, I decided to move the canonist to the main board. If you are playing the standard list, I would swap out one revoker. They literally can't win game with canonist in play, and it will be hard for you to win it without canonist. Otherwise I guess you just bring in all your combo hate. I play leylines as they they don't die to abrupt decay.
With that meta, would seriously consider canonist in main. It's good against elves, storm, food chain, sneak and show, and most other combo decks. It really over performed in my testing.
Also, anyone consider something like rule of law in the board? Obviously would be good against burn, goblins, RUG, etc. but in some matches if you could set your painter on red it could protect your guys from things like jitte, swords, etc. just a thought. As far as mass creature removal. Dwarf seems reasonable, Phoenix seems really slow but not awful. Obviously these are nice because they are tutor able. I've been using sudden demise and have liked them.


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[zangoasyl]

Rule of law? Probably you mean absolute law when assuming a protection against jitte... but I like the idea especially against burn in general and UXr delver variants, where a moonlock still leaves them the lightning bolts! The combo of painter on red and absolute law seems nice as well, but then obviously you are not able anymore to declare blockers, but as an upside you would get rid of all equipments...
Has anyone experience with the card as a one off in the sb?

[drude1]

Oops, yeah, absolute law.
Edit: been trying it and, as long as you bring it in against the right matchups, it's sweet. It got me there against miracles last night. Opponent had jace out and snapcaster and couldn't do anything against me with painter on red. It's fun to frantically watch them search with jace and top and brainstorms and not find anything.


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[Aesir]

You damn Painter players...

EDIT: @SCG Somerset, Match V. Deathblade.
EDIT: Woah, just saw his list. No Recruiters...

[GoblinZ]

You damn Painter players...

EDIT: @SCG Somerset, Match V. Deathblade.
EDIT: Woah, just saw his list. No Recruiters...

You mean this？

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=67723

I did not watch the live, but I assume it is like something as Two-cards monte

[Dice_Box]

That is the most strange list I have yet to lay eyes on. Served him well I am guessing.

I like the Buried Ruins, I like Welder more.

[Jungian Thing]

Really interesting list, it really ups the white count to bring in some all stars. Not sure about the MD trinisphere, karakas, koth and that emrakul on the sideboard, lot less mana too. I would like to see it played though. Really toolboxy which makes me worry about dead cards in the opening hand. 4th though...

Different colour painter but reminds me of this list in terms of singletons and trying to squeeze in answers.

[GoblinZ]

Really interesting list, it really ups the white count to bring in some all stars. Not sure about the MD trinisphere, karakas, koth and that emrakul on the sideboard, lot less mana too. I would like to see it played though. Really toolboxy which makes me worry about dead cards in the opening hand. 4th though...

Different colour painter but reminds me of this list in terms of singletons and trying to squeeze in answers.

I remember Mono-U Painter was called The Epic Painter or something in the past, maybe I was wrong for it was a really old version trying to abuse painter's combo. There were a variety of attempts to abuse this combo in various decks in the past, Mono-U, Imperial painter splashing blue or white for salvager combo, The mighty quinn utilizing painter combo as finisher, Next Level Painter with Countertop and even Dreadnought or UR painter...Apparently, Mono red or RW Imperial painter is still the best today.

I know there is a vintage deck called two card monte playing painter/grindstone combo and Helm/ Leyline combo in the same deck, I think this deck is similar to that in many aspects.

[spector14]

Hello! Let me explain my dilemma:
Yesterday I participated in a tournament of 60 people with the classic list R / W where the result was a 3-4 a lot disappointing; the problem is that during the tournament I suffered from screw or mulligan too often! talking to a guy who was playing the same deck and did 5-2, he confirmed these problems and it has solved the problem this way:

MD:
+4Th city of traitors
-1 Goblin welder

SD:
+1 Goblin welder
-1 Koth of the Hammer

What do you think? You also have this problem?

[ravenklath]

Hello! Let me explain my dilemma:
Yesterday I participated in a tournament of 60 people with the classic list R / W where the result was a 3-4 a lot disappointing; the problem is that during the tournament I suffered from screw or mulligan too often! talking to a guy who was playing the same deck and did 5-2, he confirmed these problems and it has solved the problem this way:

MD:
+4Th city of traitors
-1 Goblin welder

SD:
+1 Goblin welder
-1 Koth of the Hammer

What do you think? You also have this problem?

I have never had real issues with the deck, I play the traditional list with a few sideboard options changed like the Pyrite Spellbomb, and two Koth. I have had to mulligan quite often some tournaments however I know what hands can get there and which ones cant. I also goldfish the deck quite often so I can learn different things with the deck. Practice really is the Key to this deck.

And for the Guy who took 4th at SCG Open, I can only link his success to the odd nature of his deck. His build was perhaps one of the most budget versions of the deck I have ever seen.

[GundamGuy]

You mean this？

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=67723

I did not watch the live, but I assume it is like something as Two-cards monte

I saw some of it live, and it seemed like he was winning mostly off the back of Blood Moon.

That list strikes me as a hot mess, lots of negative synergies in the main and questionable card choices, but it seems to have served him well.

I think his results mostly just speaks to the power of Blood Moon.

[mcbain]

Not that I'm a huge fan of the list I don't think we should be so quite to tear the list apart.

I was brewing some changes the other day with respect to rest in peace and how effective it is at solving a lot of issues for the deck. This list seems like he has take that idea and ran (quite a long way mind you) with it.

It has basically become a control deck with a 5 cards as the kill (grindstone and helm). This would comparable to entreat the angels albeit a bit faster.



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[pinkfrosting]

I think the deck in general focuses more on the late game, using more lock elements to guarantee a lock against any archetype and enough removal to clear the board and stall for a while. The three mainboard enlightened tutors and focus on white means you can grab and play whatever piece is necessary pretty early and then start sniping things until you have what you need to combo.

A different approach, but not a bad one. This deck is far from perfect, there is a lot of room to play around with the build.

Helm as an alt wincon that can't be decayed is really nice, decay is often a difficult card to deal with especially after they've stripped your hand.

[big_ticket]

looks like im trying a new deck for now i dont have recruiters

http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/16843#237769

[drude1]

Helm as an alt wincon that can't be decayed is really nice, decay is often a difficult card to deal with especially after they've stripped your hand.

First off, although it's true that helm can't be decayed, the combo can. Activate helm, response decay R.I.P. easy enough.

Personally, I think the success of most of the recent lists compared to traditional painter is the creature removal. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for toolbox strategies and run 3 tutors and a canonist main in my list and you could easily still keep a spot for graveyard hate, etc.
But what I don't currently have and need desperately is good main deck creature removal to either turn off their clock (kill delvers, goyfs, etc) and to kill pesky combo killers like opponents' revokers. I would recommend cutting some of the blasts from the main and adding creature removal instead. The other question then is which one. Firebolts do a lot of what we want but the sorcery speed is an issue. Lightning bolts are nice and can be pointed at planeswalkers but can't hit fatties like big goyfs, griselbrand, etc. and are always only 1-for-1. Maybe increasing white splash and using StP is the answer. For people running mono-red lists, you usually play burn right? If so, how important has it been and would it ever be important to take something out that bolts can't handle?
Or what about forked bolt? I could definitely see applications with that as well, especially against death and taxes and elves.


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[Kap'n Cook]

Without diluting the maindeck too much you can run an engineered explosives like seth does. Tutorable, and gets to kill most creatures you're going to care about beyond griselbrand.

[pinkfrosting]

First off, although it's true that helm can't be decayed, the combo can. Activate helm, response decay R.I.P. easy enough.

Personally, I think the success of most of the recent lists compared to traditional painter is the creature removal. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for toolbox strategies and run 3 tutors and a canonist main in my list and you could easily still keep a spot for graveyard hate, etc.k

It still holds an advantage over the painter-grindstone combo against decay. Generally, in jund/bug the line of play is grindstone > painter > decay stone in response to painter. The line of play with the helm combo though is helm > RIP with one mana open. After RIP resloves you're immediately in a game of chicken where you can keep one mana open and it forces him to need two removal spells that can target RIP, for fear of you activating helm in response for one.

In mono-red I ran 3 bolts main. It was generally most important when they open stoneforge turn two, and I bolt eot. This gives painter plenty of time to establish before they get jitte + another creature out to get it online. It's nice to have but in some games it's irrelevant. I did win once in a beaters game with a bolt to the face though :p

[jandax]

I've been off the grid for a month or so. What have I missed?

[mcbain]

Sell your recruiters!

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[cab0747]

Sell your recruiters!

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Woah.... What? I hope your are responding to jandax in jest!