All B/R update speculation.

[DragoFireheart]

I've been busy with life.

What happened to all the TNN hate?

[sdematt]

I've been busy with life.

What happened to all the TNN hate?

Doran just totally pushed TNN out of the format, didn't you hear?

-Matt

[Barook]

I've been busy with life.

What happened to all the TNN hate?

They had to throw their design rules out of the window to print removal for it:

[Lemnear]

Academy would be crazy good. Chrome Mox, Petal, LED, Opal Mox, Artifact Lands ... Chaining cantrips like a madman or drop your whole hand turn 1 in Affinity.

Edit: forgot Thopter Foundry ;)

[Emo]

Doran just totally pushed TNN out of the format, didn't you hear?

-Matt

This gave me a good laugh

[Ellomdian]

Academy would be crazy good. Chrome Mox, Petal, LED, Opal Mox, Artifact Lands ... Chaining cantrips like a madman or drop your whole hand turn 1 in Affinity.

Edit: forgot Thopter Foundry ;)

So a bunch of cheap artifacts that make mana to power something that makes mana to then play... what? A worse version of Tide? Ohhh, powered affinity would be strong - except that even with artifact lands, it's almost completely absent from play, and the issue isn't being able to play your hand even faster - its the durability of the threats you play in the face of ubiquitous cards like StP.

I feel like the biggest problem with Academy is still it's perception circa 1998. Know why it's powerful in Vintage? It's because 6 of the most powerful cards in the game are artifacts, and they are almost guaranteed to be in every list. If you want to play sub-par net-loss-advantage replacements like Petal, Chrome, or Diamond to make your bursty Academy plays stronger, go ahead. I concede that people will lose their minds trying to find a Turbo-Academy shell that is busted, but I strongly doubt in the age of Past in Flames storm and BSZ Tide you will find a significantly more powerful deck than what's already available. I think it's actual strength as a card is mid-range, and in that respect, it's not any more powerful (arguably less so) than Cradle.

(For the record, I still suspect the most 'abusive' deck you could build with Academy is U/W Eggs, since Time Spiral and Second Sunrise seem fun together, and cracking LED with spiral on the stack seems like more fun than doing it with an Infernal...)

[Dice_Box]

I would be happy to drop a fist full of low mana artifacts, tap Academy and play Diminishing Returns...

[Lemnear]

So a bunch of cheap artifacts that make mana to power something that makes mana to then play... what? A worse version of Tide? Ohhh, powered affinity would be strong - except that even with artifact lands, it's almost completely absent from play, and the issue isn't being able to play your hand even faster - its the durability of the threats you play in the face of ubiquitous cards like StP.

Affinity does not scoop to StoP, but is too slow to get real threats on the table that aren't just a bunch of 1/1's or turn 3/4 equipted creatures with cranial plating. Being able to reliable slam T1/2 Myr enforcer, Somber Hoverguard,Master of Etherium or even a Broodstar would completely change the face of the deck. I have no idea why you think the current Affinity Shell would remain and make a statement in regards to expected impact based on that assumption

I feel like the biggest problem with Academy is still it's perception circa 1998. Know why it's powerful in Vintage? It's because 6 of the most powerful cards in the game are artifacts, and they are almost guaranteed to be in every list.

I would count again: Lotus, 5 Beta Moxen, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Voltaic Key, Time Vault.

If you want to play sub-par net-loss-advantage replacements like Petal, Chrome, or Diamond to make your bursty Academy plays stronger, go ahead. I concede that people will lose their minds trying to find a Turbo-Academy shell that is busted, but I strongly doubt in the age of Past in Flames storm and BSZ Tide you will find a significantly more powerful deck than what's already available. I think it's actual strength as a card is mid-range, and in that respect, it's not any more powerful (arguably less so) than Cradle.

It's not that the Cradle has a bunch of 0cc playable creatures in the format for it to create several green mana in turn 1. Academy is different. Playing fastmana to boost Academy can get absurd and enables you to chain several cantrips turn 1 or burst out a big blue Spell like the mentioned Dim.Ret. Turn 1 just off a Petal, a Chrome Mox and an Academy for insane advantage on the play which is also a full 2-3 mana cheaper than the most busted plays storm can perform nowadays. Like in the Affinity example, we can not asume that decklists remain the same plus 4 Academy

(For the record, I still suspect the most 'abusive' deck you could build with Academy is U/W Eggs, since Time Spiral and Second Sunrise seem fun together, and cracking LED with spiral on the stack seems like more fun than doing it with an Infernal...)

[Dark Ritual]

Academy is disgusting. We have its buddy, time spiral, as well as cloud of faeries. Mind over matter is busted in half with it as well. And it gives blue mana/the best kind of mana. If WotC isn't unbanning earthcraft why on earth would they unban academy. Same with library of alexandria and mana drain. WotC is never unbanning those cards and if you're hoping that they are going to get unbanned get used to disappointment every announcement.

[Lemnear]

Academy is disgusting. We have its buddy, time spiral, as well as cloud of faeries. Mind over matter is busted in half with it as well. And it gives blue mana/the best kind of mana. If WotC isn't unbanning earthcraft why on earth would they unban academy. Same with library of alexandria and mana drain. WotC is never unbanning those cards and if you're hoping that they are going to get unbanned get used to disappointment every announcement.

Because blue decks need carddraw that makes even mana and add an additional 3000$ to decks cost if played as a playset in Legacy. Mana Drain is pretty much the same: Turn 3 Jace or Hardcast Batterskulls for the little cost of 2000$ extra. As if Legacy's cost isn't driving it's players already away....

[Darkenslight]

So a bunch of cheap artifacts that make mana to power something that makes mana to then play... what? A worse version of Tide? Ohhh, powered affinity would be strong - except that even with artifact lands, it's almost completely absent from play, and the issue isn't being able to play your hand even faster - its the durability of the threats you play in the face of ubiquitous cards like StP.

I feel like the biggest problem with Academy is still it's perception circa 1998. Know why it's powerful in Vintage? It's because 6 of the most powerful cards in the game are artifacts, and they are almost guaranteed to be in every list. If you want to play sub-par net-loss-advantage replacements like Petal, Chrome, or Diamond to make your bursty Academy plays stronger, go ahead. I concede that people will lose their minds trying to find a Turbo-Academy shell that is busted, but I strongly doubt in the age of Past in Flames storm and BSZ Tide you will find a significantly more powerful deck than what's already available. I think it's actual strength as a card is mid-range, and in that respect, it's not any more powerful (arguably less so) than Cradle.

(For the record, I still suspect the most 'abusive' deck you could build with Academy is U/W Eggs, since Time Spiral and Second Sunrise seem fun together, and cracking LED with spiral on the stack seems like more fun than doing it with an Infernal...)

I'm far less certain fo this than you. Granted, Academy decks lose one of their most potent Draw7s (Memory Jar), but I can see a number of curretly good, but not dominant, decks where Academy would be an instant 4-of, and one or two where it would generate Eggs-like chicanery.

[lordofthepit]

Thought experiment after watching a bunch of Cube videos where no one ever picks Necropotence: if it were legal in Legacy, what would be the best shell for it?

An engine combo deck like Storm, perhaps with extra Tendrils to allow for value drains?
A two-card combo deck that resembled Extended Trix?
An aggressive deck like the old-school Standard lists (seems doubtful to me)?
A deck more oriented towards board control and incremental card advantage principles?

I'd be inclined to guess the first option.

[leegoo]

Thought experiment after watching a bunch of Cube videos where no one ever picks Necropotence: if it were legal in Legacy, what would be the best shell for it?

An engine combo deck like Storm, perhaps with extra Tendrils to allow for value drains?
A two-card combo deck that resembled Extended Trix?
An aggressive deck like the old-school Standard lists (seems doubtful to me)?
A deck more oriented towards board control and incremental card advantage principles?

I'd be inclined to guess the first option.

The first place I'd start is probably with Necrospike. (Old MTGO Classic)

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I always wanted to build an Academy-Cradle-ThopterSword deck.
With Worm Harvest, ofc.

[Gheizen64]

Academy is crazy good in AnT.

You start with 4 Led, 4 Petal, 3 SnT, 3 chrome mox. It's an island that sometimes tap for UU. Crazy good. Not sure if broken, but still it'd be a clear powerhouse of the format. If it gave colorless it'd be much less worrrying cause then you could play it only in heavy brown lists, and AnT would probably skip it.

[Ellomdian]

I would count again: Lotus, 5 Beta Moxen, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Voltaic Key, Time Vault.

Rocket Launcher, Mana Cylix, Dragon Engine! Look, I can name random old artifacts too!

I honestly just hope that they hurry up and take Black Vise and Mind Twist off, and maybe even Earthcraft, so that we can continue discussion about real cards without cluttering up the list with chaff.

[Lemnear]

Rocket Launcher, Mana Cylix, Dragon Engine! Look, I can name random old artifacts too.

Random artifacts? As for someone who claims to play since '97 and dipping his nose into a discussion about the expected impact of Academy in Legacy in Relation to Vintage with it's powered artifacts which are all banned in Legacy, this post was exceptional stupid. The point made was that Academy in Vintage is not only played because of the 5 original Moxen and Black Lotus but that the count of colorless powerhouses is much higher even if I did not even mention MUD or Vintage Affinity to prove that point.

As we're at it: Caleb released his take on Academy as well and after the Bargain-Fail he underlined once more, why he should not play any kind of engine-decks or storm.

[Darkenslight]

Random artifacts? As for someone who claims to play since '97 and dipping his nose into a discussion about the expected impact of Academy in Legacy in Relation to Vintage with it's powered artifacts which are all banned in Legacy, this post was exceptional stupid. The point made was that Academy in Vintage is not only played because of the 5 original Moxen and Black Lotus but that the count of colorless powerhouses is much higher even if I did not even mention MUD or Vintage Affinity to prove that point.

As we're at it: Caleb released his take on Academy as well and after the Bargain-Fail he underlined once more, why he should not play any kind of engine-decks or storm.

...what? That's a mediocre list - he should at least be going mono-blue, and looking towards Spring Tide lists for inspiration, what with having a relevant draw suite. I think you need to be playing at least 22 artifacts for Academy to be even remotely playable for 1+ mana. The question is, what draw-suite would you use - Thoughtcast, BS, GProbe, BSZ? And how many Candelabra would you use?

[PirateKing]

Does B/R get updated with M15 or is it only new block sets?

[rufus]

...what? That's a mediocre list - he should at least be going mono-blue, and looking towards Spring Tide lists for inspiration, ...

IMO there are many possibilities. Splashing green for Crop Rotation seems like something that - at minimum - deserves some consideration.