All B/R update speculation.

[Barsoom]

I'm pretty sure that this time Earthcraft will be unbanned. The fact that the price of the card doubled/tripled in price from 2 months ago on MCM plus the fact that we got in Conspiracy a Squirrel Nest reprint and the Squirrel Token makes me want to believe once again...

[JPoJohnson]

I'm pretty sure that this time Earthcraft will be unbanned. The fact that the price of the card doubled/tripled in price from 2 months ago on MCM plus the fact that we got in Conspiracy a Squirrel Nest reprint and the Squirrel Token makes me want to believe once again...

I wouldn't take price as a matter of fact. Price on Bitterblossom skyrocketed on every site everywhere in the months leading to it's unban. Earthcraft is stable everywhere.

[Lemnear]

What did everyone think of Caleb's opinions on the banned cards he tested? Is Oath being unbanned just a dream?

A dream? More like a nightmare totally invalidating EVERY creature-strategy in the format.

[emidln]

A dream? More like a nightmare totally invalidating EVERY creature-strategy in the format.

I'd sorta like to trade 4 lands for Forbidden Orchards and get a Griselbrand plan in my Past in Flames deck. Seems like a good time.

[H]

I've played Oath since the Akroma/Spirit of the Night days and as much as I love it, I don't feel it's right for Legacy.

Even though I would love to play it with 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder, and 4 Preordain, that is just bonkers.

[Dark Ritual]

I'd sorta like to trade 4 lands for Forbidden Orchards and get a Griselbrand plan in my Past in Flames deck. Seems like a good time.

QFT. No idea why everyone is trying to put oath in control when in combo it is straight busted with griselbrand + PiF.

If you ban fetchlands in legacy you actually just make a ton of people mad/quit. Are they banworthy? Perhaps. Should they be banned? Hell no.

I'd like to see desire in legacy just to brew with it personally. Not sure how good it is outside the fact that running 4 desires sounds broken because desire into desire equates to game virtually every time. As for shortcutting the shuffles, yes that is quite doable as long as you don't definitively know the top card of your deck via a top activation, brainstorm, topdeck tutors, etc. etc. and one of the easy ways of shuffling between each one if it did come to that is to simply cut the deck between each copy resolving.

Agree with Caleb on some cards disagree with others. Yawg's bargain is safe while he seems to think it is too good. Ad nauseam is superior to bargain virtually every time I resolve ad nauseam I draw a number of cards that exceeds my life total before ad nauseam resolved. And this is in ANT, not TES. Over 33% of your deck is a freeroll with ad nauseam due to lands, petals, LED's, and chrome mox. Paying 1 life to draw a land sucks. I know because I've done that in vintage with bargain. Pay 1 life: Draw a land. Great feeling. The only zero mana cards I like to pay 1 life for are black lotus and lion's eye diamond because both are pretty absurd powerlevel wise apparently.

[BVB09]

I liked Caleb's conclusions about the series.
However I think he dismissed Mental Misstep without much of an explanation.
I don't want to start the MM discussion again, but I believe is one of the most unbanneable ones.

The problem most people have with it is that they believe it would make blue even more dominant.
However if MM it was colorless instead of blue it would be fine as a way to keep the power level in check.
Gives every deck a chance to fight those oppresive Shaman's, Delvers, Brainstorm, combo... etc... which by the way are common requests in this thread

[Megadeus]

Fight Miserable cards with more miserable cards.

[BVB09]

Fight Miserable cards with more miserable cards.

I see it as a necesary evil.
If Doran-treefloks (for example) was almost unplayable before Delver, Shaman, ... after those cards where printed there won't be any hope in the whole futture for a deck like that (rogues in general), ever.
MM kind of give them an opportunity (I believe), serving as a "better Chalice" to punish the tier decks.

[nedleeds]

No. Mental Misstep made everything more miserable because Delver and SFM decks could really tap out with impunity and not even get Mind Rotted. The result is every single deck not intending to cast Chalice on 1 was a 56 card deck. Even decks without Islands had no hope but to play their own Misteps ... just to counter other Misteps. What an awful format. We already almost have a defacto 56 card format with Brainstorm being so stone fucking retarded.

[Dark Ritual]

I liked Caleb's conclusions about the series.
However I think he dismissed Mental Misstep without much of an explanation.
I don't want to start the MM discussion again, but I believe is one of the most unbanneable ones.

The problem most people have with it is that they believe it would make blue even more dominant.
However if MM it was colorless instead of blue it would be fine as a way to keep the power level in check.
Gives every deck a chance to fight those oppresive Shaman's, Delvers, Brainstorm, combo... etc... which by the way are common requests in this thread

Mental misstep is fucking absurd. Like, every deck runs 4 copies absurd. Also, it's already effectively colorless as that's what phyrexian mana was. Oh and it dominated before snapcaster mage was even printed. With snapcaster mage? We have 48 slots to work with as I know I would be automatically running 4 snapcaster, 4 misstep, and 4 brainstorm in any legacy deck if misstep was legalized. Mental misstep is almost identical to force of will but instead of exiling a blue card you pay 1 more life as well as having the option to hardcast it way more often.

[Darkenslight]

I liked Caleb's conclusions about the series.
However I think he dismissed Mental Misstep without much of an explanation.
I don't want to start the MM discussion again, but I believe is one of the most unbanneable ones.

The problem most people have with it is that they believe it would make blue even more dominant.
However if MM it was colorless instead of blue it would be fine as a way to keep the power level in check.
Gives every deck a chance to fight those oppresive Shaman's, Delvers, Brainstorm, combo... etc... which by the way are common requests in this thread

MM was a mistake. An even bigger one than Delver, a much greater one than Snapcaster - it's arguably on the level of Jitte and Clamp, in terms of stupid-good. And Jitte isn't even a 4-of with SFM. Clamp would just break Elves into the only major combo deck. And MM would be an auto-four-of in every deck, main or side. Even MUD.

[Barook]

MM was banned because virtually every deck could run it and because it made blue deck too good, forcing a blue meta.

Sounds familiar?

Brainstorm roughly has ~70% meta penetration right now. That's higher than during the high times of MM. And the only argument that keeps popping up to prevent BS from getting banned is that it requires "skill" while it's essentially a get free out of jail card in both deck construction and in-game that allows you to get away with lots of crap.

[HSCK]

MM was banned because virtually every deck could run it and because it made blue deck too good, forcing a blue meta.

Sounds familiar?

Brainstorm roughly has ~70% meta penetration right now. That's higher than during the high times of MM. And the only argument that keeps popping up to prevent BS from getting banned is that it requires "skill" while it's essentially a get free out of jail card in both deck construction and in-game that allows you to get away with lots of crap.

And that Brainstorm is in a lot of different decks meaning there's still diversity to the format. In fact, from what data I've gathered, this is the most diverse it's ever been.

[death]

Yawgmoth's Bargain will never be unbanned as long as Griselbrand and Show and Tell are legal in the format. Regarding Mental Misstep, it was banned prior to Snapcaster Mage becoming legal, and it should remain banned as long as Snapcaster Mage is legal. If DCI should unban anything, they should unban Earthcraft, Survival, Oath and Mystical Tutor altogether.

[nedleeds]

Stop trolling about Oath. Please.

[HSCK]

Oath vs. Survival, oh yeah, that'd be the good stuff.

[Dice_Box]

Come now, we all know Oath is safe. I mean it is not like there is easy ways to hand over creatures to the opponent while making you mana. It's also not like they have printed a massive card draw engine on legs of late either... Seams safe.

[rufus]

And that Brainstorm is in a lot of different decks meaning there's still diversity to the format. In fact, from what data I've gathered, this is the most diverse it's ever been.

Continuing with the comparison to mental misstep for a moment, MM was in a lot of different decks too.

The thing that makes MM such an issue is that it's oppressive in addition to being overpowered. For all I know, Brainstorm is actually more overpowered than MM, but gets away with it by being subtle.

[Zombie]

The more I build sideboards, the more I hate Leyline of Sanctity.