Dislike immensely. What if that carpet was actually a Nature's Claim? Instead of derping around with overcosted 1/1s, you can free yourself and actually win.Originally Posted by slave
I know this is probably gonna get laughed at....
Last weekend I took along 2 Carpet of Flowers in the side.
I play this card in Pact S.I. normally, but had a "bugger it" moment, why not?! It was only my local haunt, nothing serious...
Funnily enough, I had the opportunity to side them in 2 match-ups > Merfolk & Reanimator.
My side was;
3 Chains, 1 LotV, 4 Firestorm, 4 Nature's Claim, 1 Ashen Rider, 1 Bearer of the Heavens, 2 Carpets.
(my meta is very hate-filled right now)
The Carpets actually weren't as bad as I thought they would be, despite their niche application.
For Reanimator, I sided in these aswell as my Chains and LotV (usually I have 3 LotV, but wanted to test out carpet), and pretty quickly I was able to get use out of it. Fortunately I got one in a *keep* hand in both game 2 and 3.
Didn't happen to get one in the merfolk matchup, but I imagine it would have been useful.
I'm still not convinced > Lotus Petal seems better here.
....but the fact that Carpet gives us the ability to actually play cards from our hand with an active RiP/Cage in play, means I can't help but keep thinking about it....
What do you fella's think about it?
Fair enough, but bear in mind I'd be bringing it in as a mana-source, not an answer. I already have Chains & Claims in the side for that.
Carpets become quite okay after turn 3, when you're routinely getting 2+ mana from them.
Considering we rarely have 3 mana or more on the field, being able to use any Lootings in the yard becomes pretty handy.
TES deck is fun .As a combo player were trying to wreck him as soon as possible. Letting our opponent to draw into hate or permission cards is deadly. The carpet of flowers should most definitely be antihate. Then just win. (Dredge isn't too worried about mana.)Fair enough, but bear in mind I'd be bringing it in as a mana-source, not an answer. I already have Chains & Claims in the side for that.
Carpets become quite okay after turn 3, when you're routinely getting 2+ mana from them.
Considering we rarely have 3 mana or more on the field, being able to use any Lootings in the yard becomes pretty handy.
Quad laser players have a slightly more patient approach. Game 1 is always a breeze cabal therapy will gain us the edge in pretty much every game but, antihate is still the #1 sb option. We've been tinkering with extra mana sources for flexibility. Even with extra mana options were still playing the same speed and no significant consistent improvements.
I believe most issues are handled with 3x firestorms, 3x unmasks, 4x natures claims maybe a set of nether shadows to get around surgical extraction or style points.
Dredge is juggernaut with an "Achilles heel." mana ramp won't matter if you can't work the graveyard.
Most fun deck to play with. Ever
Last edited by ottofromorbit; 06-11-2014 at 08:11 PM.
All good points > no argument here.
Carpet is a card I felt like testing out, is all.
So I went to the local night before last with LED-Dredge in hand, a list containing Dread Return / Griselbrand.
Sideboard was the same as last time, with two Carpets. Seems the night was light on hate, I copped a RiP against D&T, but otherwise it was only extraction!!
My matchups were R-Goblins, BW-Death and Taxes, UG-Eldrazi, U-delver. Only got in 4, as I had to take a bye and the judge had enough after 5 rounds.
Went 3-1.
Carpets came in for two matches, and whilst it was very good against Delver, it wasn't useful enough elsewhere > I think this will be enough for this little experiment.
A question;
Is Hull Breach considered obsolete now we have Abrupt decay?
Do you SB in removal vs Rest in Peace as opposed to Unmask, I never found removing it to be the better of the strategies?
I'll answer your question with a question: When would you want to run Hull Breach over Abrupt Decay? The only thing that I can think of is if Leyline of the Void is ridiculously abundant. Like, much much Leyline. But... I would just run Wispmare if that were the case so i can't think of a situation where I personally would run Hull breach as my first choice.All good points > no argument here.
Carpet is a card I felt like testing out, is all.
So I went to the local night before last with LED-Dredge in hand, a list containing Dread Return / Griselbrand.
Sideboard was the same as last time, with two Carpets. Seems the night was light on hate, I copped a RiP against D&T, but otherwise it was only extraction!!
My matchups were R-Goblins, BW-Death and Taxes, UG-Eldrazi, U-delver. Only got in 4, as I had to take a bye and the judge had enough after 5 rounds.
Went 3-1.
Carpets came in for two matches, and whilst it was very good against Delver, it wasn't useful enough elsewhere > I think this will be enough for this little experiment.
A question;
Is Hull Breach considered obsolete now we have Abrupt decay?
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
- Albert Einstein
Only against Patriot. And only because they also run Cage, Plow, and 12 T1 counterspells, so racing RiP is not a viable plan.
~ Team Unicorn Motto
Over the course of playing versus UWR, I have found myself bringing in Firestorms, Unmask, and whatever RIP removal I have, and cutting LED, breakthrough, DR, and some Imps.
Sure, I know Decay is a better choice (LotV excepted) > Is the ability to hit more than one target actually relevant?
Question to those that have tried Abrupt Decay: With 12 gold lands and 3 Abrupt Decays plus cantrips, do you get to cast Abrupt Decay consistent enough during postboard games and win before they get another piece of hate?
IME with the deck, it depends on the opponent > if it's hate-filled like D&T, the answer is frequently no for me.
Big reason why I've been packing COnfluence, Brass & Gemstone Mines in the deck with Coliseum.
How do he rest of you fare?
So I went 6-2-1 IDing into Top 32 (I got 22th) at SCG Vegas. I was running the same list as before: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13503&iddeck=99201 With the only difference being the sb: Removal of the 1 Firestorm and 1 Pithing Needle and inclusion of 2 Faerie Macabre and replacing the 2 Tarnished Citadels with Mana Confluence. I'm not sure what the most efficient spread of our gold lands is supposed to be atm. lol. After this tournament I'm going to take a different approach to my sb. It really is all preference on how you want to deal with hate so will see.
Anyway I was just going to post brief anecdotes from throughout the day. :)
Round 1. Infect.
Game 1 I feel pretty confident after he dropped a turn 2 Ichorclaw Myr seeing as how I usually cabal therapy their action away and cruise to victory via horde of zombies. Anyway skip to his turn 3. He attacks with the Myr and I decide to block it with my lonely Narcomeoba which triggers its ability and gives its +2/+2, then he decides to cast [card]Groundswell[/card] for the +4/+4, [card]Mutagenic Growth[/card], and then Berserk destroying me.... and onto Game 2.
G2: Zombie horde
G3: DR into Iona Naming Green.
1-0
Round 2. Burn
Game 1. I keep a modest hand capable of outgrinding any fair deck, however, I was met with fire (Vegas historically favors burn). My slow dredge plan was not going to go anywhere and I'm quickly dispatched turn 4 before I really get anything going. Side note: I lost quite a number of game 1s an inordinate amount of times this tournament...weird.. anyways.
G2: DR into Iona Naming Red
G3: DR into Iona Naming Red oh my! dat Angel thou!
2-0
Round 3. Death and Taxes
Game 1. I Draw the nuts and I only see a plains after he scoops it up in response to a Cabal Therapy.
(I pretty much put him on D & T anyway as the deck is pretty popular.)
G2: He mulls to 4 and I think I pretty much have it. I had a couple of Careful Study, LED, Coliseum and a Faithless however I didn't find a dredger off the first Study. He then casts a turn 2 Spirit of the Labyrinth which I and the deck normally don't care about - afterall we never really "draw" any cards - however in this case it was troublesome as I could not dig for extra cards with careful study or looting. At that point they were just terrible discard outlets lol. Anyway on my Turn 2 I draw a Troll or it might have been stinkweed. In any case I drop the Coliseum and chain dredges. At this point I have an Ichorid stocked graveyard for next turn, but only a Narcomoeba, 1 bridge, and 1 Therapy for the current turn. I don't Therapy on RIP with my reasoning being if he had the RIP he would have slammed it on his turn 2 instead of SoTL and I didn't want to lose the Narco, the Therapy, and only end up with a 2/2 to show for it (I was being too cautious to not use up too many resources). In the end he went ahead and slammed a Turn 3 RIP which he said he already had in hand the prior turn and didn't play it because I had nothing of interest in my GY. :/ In any case that was a blunder..
G3. I mull to 4 and get rolled after some unexciting dredges for a few turns.
2-1
Round 4: Miracles vs. Joe Lossett.
G1. Joe takes game 1 and He and I chuckle over how terrible my dredges were and how much I was bricking. I kept hitting my action too many turns apart allowing Joe to slowly pick off what I had in the form of Terminus, Plow, etc..
G2. RIP :(
2-2 At this point I'm out of top 8 contention, but the day isn't over yet and I came to make some money!
Round 5: Death and Taxes
G1. I Dredge roll em
G2. I Dredge roll em (He kept a solid 7, but no interaction)
3-2
Round 6: Merfolk
G1. He drops a Chalice of the Void on 1 on turn 2 which shuts off my Putrid Imp and Careful study. Luckily for me I had already dropped a dredger in my yard turn 1 and had a coliseum to follow up dredges with. I'm able to generate zombies to chump block his fish until I hit additional bridges allowing me to generate an absurd amount of them on the back of 4 Ichorids and eventually seal the game.
G2. He drops turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage, Turn 2 Chalice on 1 and its on to game 3.
G3. He doesn't have much interaction and I'm able to eventually DR an Iona on Blue to wrap things up.
4-2
Round 7: Burn (I made a small quip about hoping he'd be playing burn, but I don't think he thought it too funny and as it turns out thats what he was on. xD)
G1. I lose game 1 once again. The consistent turn 4 kill is more than enough to dispatch me. This is actually quite annoying.
G2. DR into Iona naming Red.
G3. DR into Iona naming Red. This game is hard.
5-2
Round 8: Splinter Twin (Yes you're reading that right. Splinter twin combo in legacy)
G1. I dredge roll em and he scoops up his cards before I get to see what hes playing.
G2. He casts Chalice on 1 which slows me down enough for him to hit Pestermite on turn 3 and then using a Sol land and 3 volcanics to cast Kikijiki for the infi attackers...
G3. I dredge roll em.
6-2 I made it!! After 8 rounds I'm sitting in 24th and I and my round 9 opponent decide to ID into Top 32 and prize out $100.
Round 9: U/W Tempo
ID
Final Record: 6-2-1 and I end up in 22nd Place.
The main deck still feels strong and it seems the most consistent, however, I feel the sb is always a work in progress as I try to find more effective means to combat hate.
Welp... Mull till I get at least one anti-hate hoping they mull into only one.
Side in 3-4 firestorm for elves goblins thalias ...and 3-4 natures claim drop led's n imps.
it's a gamble not knowing if they hit 2 peices of hate.
I would go unmask in place of firestorm vs creatureless.
There is a small measure of luck awarded to an experienced pilot. Tis the nature of magic.
13 lands can help grind out wins... Everyone has their own recipe.
This deck is still winning. Every opponent is flustered if they don't mull to the proper hate they sided which just wrecks their flow.
Don't just play the deck. remember how to side best "on the draw" and "on the play"
Watched this deck evolve since it was called ichorid and I used psychatogs.
FKZ made turn 1 kills doable and hilarious.
Yes, during your upkeep cast your cantrips, maintain priority then crack led floating 3 red with dredgers and faithless looting hitting the yard...pro.
I seen that the OP hasn't been updated in a while, I remember seeing an article somewhere about running Ichorid vs Bloodghast with the pros and cons of both. I didnt actually see mention of Bloodghast at all in the OP. I understand with Ichorid you need food and will need to run more black critters, as well as him being quite a beat stick. With Bloodghast the Dredge Lands/ Unidiscovered Paradise are usually used to make sure you make more lands drops to benefit the most. Bloodghast builds seem to run more lands and Sun Titan as a DR target which is pretty insane at what it can do getting back Lands for Ghast, LEDS for flashback, etc... Curious on peoples thought on theses 2 different builds and why they prefer 1 over the other.
Joe Lossett just 4-0'ed a MTGO daily with a bloodghast dredge deck on his stream last night.
I can brush up the OP if you guys would like.
I appreciate you taking the time to do that, I look forward to it.
One aspect on being pro ichorid is that he dies at the end of every turn hence creating zombies due to bridge from below. The zombies created this way facilitate a better combo and aggro plan imho. Sometimes its totally worth trading an ichorid and some bridges for a bunch of 2/2s and bridges to kill them on the swing back....bloodghast doesnt allow that. I would be interested on hearing some pros of the vampire spirit just for thought, for me personally, ichorid is just too creepy to cut.
I have tried a number of Dredge lists over the years. I find that I often prefer running Bloodghast in addition to Ichorid. Bloodghast is overall inferior but has a few advantages:
* You have more control over when Bloodghast comes into play. With Ichorid, he has to enter play in your upkeep, which commonly results in the first one eating a Swords to Plowshares. With Bloodghast, you can play your land, return Bloodghast to play, hold priority, and sac him to Cabal Therapy to strip all copies of STP.
* Bloodghast can give you two sacrifices on the same turn when you don't have any Bridges. With Ichorid, once he's gone, you have to wait a turn to bring him back out. If you start the turn with a Bloodghast, you can dredge into a Therapy (and potentially another Bloodghast), hit your opponent's Force of Will, then play a land, bring back your one or two (or more) Bloodghasts and often Dread Return right away. When you play more lands, and especially Undiscovered Paradise, you'll be able to exploit Bloodghast's ability more. Having Bloodghast in addition to Ichorid makes flashing back Dread Return a lot easier.
* This isn't a point for Bloodghast being better, but running Bloodghasts diversifies your threats and helps guard against losing to Surgical Extraction. Nether Shadow or Ashen Ghoul perform the same function. I find Bloodghast to be a better fit in Dredge decks with mana than I do Nether Shadow or Ashen Ghoul. There isn't enough space in the list to run more creatures (to turn on Nether Shadow and Ashen Ghoul) and more land (to turn on Bloodghast), so you have to choose one strategy or the other.
Certainly there are different lines of play and different strategies available depending on your maindeck and sideboard construction.
There's still too much graveyard hate in my area for me to play Dredge in any form, but if it ever subsides, I will happily return to making zombies for fun and profit.
I've played both extensively. I always used to play bloodghast in combo heavy versions because he was a turn faster. You never get ichorid until the turn after he hits the yard. With bloodghast you get him the same turn he hits the yard and therefore you can often combo out that turn. Also as mentioned above, you can get him into play multiple times in one turn with sun Titan and/or fetch lands. Having said that, I've been playing ichorids for a while now just because I don't love undiscovered paradise or the dredge lands.
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