[Deck] 12 Post

[Koby]

If my memory serves well, G2 was a mulligan to 5 cards. It's hard not to keep Map + 1 land with only 5 cards.

[Rock Lee]

I think he made a mistake the turn he repealed. He had enough mana to cast the s&t with the candlestick. That might have been a turning point of that game, either on sword / crusader or even better on the mind censor of the doom.
The g2 starting hand seems also greedy.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

that would be fine and all, minus revoker that got repealed that was naming Candelabra of Tawnos. Also, mull to 5 with 7/6 having zero mana and keeping on land, map, show & tell, brainstorm, candelabra is fine. I just then proceeded to not draw a land for 6 turns.

Game 1 was a horrific punt though. We should have gone to 3.

[Mystic Snake]

With=without

But yes should have been a g3 somewhere

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[LOLaSageOwl]

that would be fine and all, minus revoker that got repealed that was naming Candelabra of Tawnos. Also, mull to 5 with 7/6 having zero mana and keeping on land, map, show & tell, brainstorm, candelabra is fine. I just then proceeded to not draw a land for 6 turns.

Game 1 was a horrific punt though. We should have gone to 3.

I saw that Game 1, what could you have done differently to win?

[Rock Lee]

I saw that Game 1, what could you have done differently to win?

Tons. Could've just show & telled and held the repeal. Could've Vesuva'd their karakas and gotten Vesuva + CP. Could've gotten my own Karakas. Could've gotten Chasm. i did none of those. I blame fatigue and me being terrible.

[Davek]

Jeremiah, could you please post your latest build (if there were some differences between that and the scg Somerset one, of course)?

[maCHOOga]

I recently picked up 12 post, as everyone has told me that "it's my type" of legacy deck. Despite winning games, I seem to have trouble closing out matches. I have a couple general questions about the deck.

Q1.). Against an aggro deck, when is the best time to play glacial chasm? This is one thing I can't figure out because with crop rotation, it seems like I go retrieving it way to late. Most of the time I can't afford to be setback a land or two.

Q2.). After game 1, do you side out 1 of the unneeded utility lands? (Such as Karakas, chasm, Bojuka bog)

Q3.) Assuming you show and tell PrimeTime early, what's the best pair of lands to get?

Q4.) Assuming you hardcast PrimeTime, I assume that when you want to search for Eye of Ugin with the EoTB effect.

[BVB09]

I can only respond to question 2: Don't side out Karakas! It's needed for the infinite combo with Emrakul.
But yes, Chasm and Bojuka are many times safe to side out.

[winglerw28]

I can only respond to question 2: Don't side out Karakas! It's needed for the infinite combo with Emrakul.
But yes, Chasm and Bojuka are many times safe to side out.

I feel as though it can be OK to sideboard Karakas out in matchups where taking infinite turns is overkill (think RUG Delver).

[Postman]

@Rock Lee: First of all thanks for updating the primer, especially Elves MU is very interesting to me.

I would like to ask for another MU : Tin Fins. This MU seems to be 10 : 90 in their favor
2 weeks ago, Tin Fins man had to go down to 4 cards game 1 against UWR Delver...comboed off on his 2nd turn! Game 2 he was on the draw and killed on his 1st turn.

[Zotmaster]

I recently picked up 12 post, as everyone has told me that "it's my type" of legacy deck. Despite winning games, I seem to have trouble closing out matches. I have a couple general questions about the deck.

Q1.). Against an aggro deck, when is the best time to play glacial chasm? This is one thing I can't figure out because with crop rotation, it seems like I go retrieving it way to late. Most of the time I can't afford to be setback a land or two.

The situations you give are sort of ambiguous so there aren't necessarily clear answers, but general guidelines might help you.

Ideally, I try to get Glacial Chasm when my life total is around 7. I say 7 because I like to be able to pay for the upkeep at least twice if possible. Two turns can be an eternity in Legacy, especially if you can have a 100% guarantee that you won't die during those turns. Keep in mind that you can use Vesuva to "reset" the upkeep of Chasm if need be.

Q2.). After game 1, do you side out 1 of the unneeded utility lands? (Such as Karakas, chasm, Bojuka bog)

What winglerw says is mostly correct. Against Storm, too, Karakas is almost certainly overkill: your goal there is to just get a threat down and ride that threat to victory. With enough protection, Phyrexian Revoker will get you there. A lot of decks don't care about the graveyard, and Bojuka Bog can come out in those games. I've gotten greedy and sided out Glacial Chasm before, but unless you're 100% sure your opponent's path to victory is not through combat damage (like High Tide), you are taking a risk, probably unnecessarily.

Q3.) Assuming you show and tell PrimeTime early, what's the best pair of lands to get?

Well, that all depends. Do you need more ramp? You might get two Cloudpost. Are you low on life? Probably two Glimmerpost. Do you want to shrink Tarmogoyf and hate on Deathrite Shaman? You'd probably get Bojuka Bog. I guess in the ideal, "I'm not gonna get hit by Wasteland and I want to close out the game" plan, your Titan would get you Cloudpost and Eye of Ugin, and next turn you'd swing with Titan and get another Cloudpost and Karakas.

Q4.) Assuming you hardcast PrimeTime, I assume that when you want to search for Eye of Ugin with the EoTB effect.

Usually, yeah. Keep in mind the following, though:

1. Lands Primeval Titan gets you enter the battlefield tapped. This means you're usually exposing your Eye of Ugin to one turn's worth of danger. If you have Candelabra of Tawnos, of course, this does not apply. It also means that with a Candel, you may be able to accelerate your mana off of Primeval Titan if you have enough Locuses on the board.

2. Your "magic numbers" are 15 mana (to tutor for and cast Kozilek, Butcher of Truth) and 20 mana (to do the same for Emrakul, the Aeons Torn). If you're running Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, your magic number is 16. Keep in mind that you can also tutor for Phyrexian Revoker in this way in a pinch.

@Rock Lee: First of all thanks for updating the primer, especially Elves MU is very interesting to me.

I would like to ask for another MU : Tin Fins. This MU seems to be 10 : 90 in their favor
2 weeks ago, Tin Fins man had to go down to 4 cards game 1 against UWR Delver...comboed off on his 2nd turn! Game 2 he was on the draw and killed on his 1st turn.

One of the people in my play group sometimes plays Tin Fins. Your Game 1 plan is to hope that he gets bored with his life and concedes to you; if you know your opponent is on Tin Fins Game 1, you would mulligan to green source + Crop Rotation and hope Rotate into Bojuka Bog would buy you enough turns to get something down that wins you the game. Mostly though, you curl up in the fetal position and die. There is action in the sideboard, however: in some of the earlier iterations of the deck, you could literally bring in the entire 15 card sideboard. As it is they still rely on their graveyard to win, so you bring in whatever counters are in the board (Force of Will, Flusterstorm, Mindbreak Trap) to protect your Crop Rotation, and Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker on Griselbrand is extremely helpful as well. Your goal is to follow the universal rule of control decks - "Don't do anything" - and eventually take enough turns to get something down to win you the game. Tin Fins is a rare enough thing that you probably shouldn't go out of your way to prepare for it, but if for some reason you really need to you can always run more diverse hate like Grafdigger's Cage out of the sideboard as well.

[winglerw28]

I've gotten greedy and sided out Glacial Chasm before, but unless you're 100% sure your opponent's path to victory is not through combat damage (like High Tide), you are taking a risk, probably unnecessarily.

I know this is minor, but Glacial Chasm hits all damage, not just combat damage, making it sometimes relevant against storm because of Empty the Warrens and definitely against Burn. Just a small note for anybody who hasn't played the card before.

Well, that all depends. Do you need more ramp? You might get two Cloudpost. Are you low on life? Probably two Glimmerpost. Do you want to shrink Tarmogoyf and hate on Deathrite Shaman? You'd probably get Bojuka Bog. I guess in the ideal, "I'm not gonna get hit by Wasteland and I want to close out the game" plan, your Titan would get you Cloudpost and Eye of Ugin, and next turn you'd swing with Titan and get another Cloudpost and Karakas.

I think to build on this, it is important to learn Cloudpost mana scaling. It seems trivial until you pick up the deck and fall short because you are spending time in-game counting. I can't tell you the number of times I was 1-2 mana short the first couple times I played the deck. There is not a cookie cutter solution to any situation.

[Zotmaster]

I know this is minor, but Glacial Chasm hits all damage, not just combat damage, making it sometimes relevant against storm because of Empty the Warrens and definitely against Burn. Just a small note for anybody who hasn't played the card before.

Yeah, sorry. I got lazy with my wording. I don't really think about or gameplan for Burn in general, and 99% of the time Chasm is going to matter for combat damage. But still, it does stop all damage. Sorry about that.

[Matrat]

I'm going to be playing 12 post in the Columbus open. I'm running ug version. I've been play testing for 2 weeks now and it's done really well considering my play group consist of ppl that have top 8 or won scg opens. I'm wondering if a 1 or 2 of exploration would be good. It would be a nice ramp I thinking.

[203995014]

I'm going to be playing 12 post in the Columbus open. I'm running ug version. I've been play testing for 2 weeks now and it's done really well considering my play group consist of ppl that have top 8 or won scg opens. I'm wondering if a 1 or 2 of exploration would be good. It would be a nice ramp I thinking.

What decks did you play against?

Contrary to common belief, this isn't actually a ramp deck but rather a control deck with a ramp element and an ability to "combo" (Show and Tell and Crop Rotation / Candelabra) so Exploration is a cool effect but isn't really what the deck should be doing.

[PollePotDK]

A remark to this comment from Zotmaster:

"Keep in mind that you can use Vesuva to "reset" the upkeep of Chasm if need be."

If you copy your Chasm with Vesuva, you would have to sack a land again, right? Unlike Thespian Stage,where it's free.

/PollePotDK

[Darkenslight]

A remark to this comment from Zotmaster:

"Keep in mind that you can use Vesuva to "reset" the upkeep of Chasm if need be."

If you copy your Chasm with Vesuva, you would have to sack a land again, right? Unlike Thespian Stage,where it's free.

/PollePotDK

Yes. Because Vesuva copies it as it ETB, it copes all ETB triggers.

[kingtk3]

A remark to this comment from Zotmaster:

"Keep in mind that you can use Vesuva to "reset" the upkeep of Chasm if need be."

If you copy your Chasm with Vesuva, you would have to sack a land again, right? Unlike Thespian Stage,where it's free.

/PollePotDK

True, but it's not an issue because you will sac the original chasm: you choose what to copy as vesuva is played, then the trigger goes in the stack and when it resolves vesuva is already a chasm, so you are free to sac the original one.

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

[PollePotDK]

That's right - I hadn't seen that one, saccing the original Chasm. That makes sense.

Thanks for clearing that up for me

/PollePotDK

[TimHarding]

This list as been performing very well for me lately.

[MD]
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
2 Island
1 Forest
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Bajouka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Townos
2 Pithing Needle
4 Repeal
2 Moment's Peace
3 Show and Tell

[SB]
4 Swan Song
1 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip
1 Hydroblast
4 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm

I've been on this UG MD for a long time, and ported in Moments peace per Rock Lee's excellent meta call for the card. It's amazing. I've topped a few 25-50 mans, and 4-0d last nights weekly against elves, shardless, MUD, and burn. Providence felt great, but I deck registration DQ'd myself for forgetting to write down forest :/....

I dropped trinket bullet package because I feel the format is narrowing. 3 Needle main felt like too much, so I changed to a venser- which has been excellent. He can do some serious work. The sideboard (which feels amazing) is geared a little more towards delver, painter, blade and sneak - which I think is a huge section of the meta now. EE has been great. Turns all delver into byes, together with moments peace. It is also elves hate.

At the weekly I tossed in tabernacle (gasp) when I knew people were excited about 4 color pyromancer, as that is the only current purpose for the card for us, as far as I can see. Still probably not worth a slot though.

I wish I could run 3.5 show and tell.

And @all who've been pushing grip. You've convinced me, it's great- thanks! It allows ulamog to hit the bench and it's a nice trick to have up the sleeve. Miracles is on the rise and I don't hate havering more cards to bring in, because I don't believe it is a bye matchup at all.