[Deck] 12 Post

[Togores]

Yuhu!
Another one that realized the raw power of krossan grip.
Welcome to the smart man club :D
^no ofense

[sauce]

where is the oracles tim, tisk tisk

[TimHarding]

where is the oracles tim, tisk tisk

Fell with the same logic as the Mage package. To me, Oracle is good in a wide open format, where you want to have GSZ or other threat diversity and card selection. I loved seeing oracle (bears) against storm, reanimator, omni, pox, lands, deathblade - diverse decks where you want high spell selection and untapped lands. Nowadays every black deck, even stifle delver has liliana, and an abnormally high density of the meta wants to win by turning dudes sideways (even combo), and that's why moments peace got the nod.

[sauce]

I love Oracle vs Liliana decks because they have to -2 her and then you Titan them next turn and fetch up a Dryad arbor to boot.
My list is 1 GSZ 1 Dryad 2 Oracle and 0 S&T right now

[TimHarding]

I love Oracle vs Liliana decks because they have to -2 her and then you Titan them next turn and fetch up a Dryad arbor to boot.
My list is 1 GSZ 1 Dryad 2 Oracle and 0 S&T right now

Yeah against bug that package is def way better than SnT, I agree. You basically invalidate Lilly with that density. I play against too much elves/burn/affinity/mono white/elves/elves to be able to drop SnT. My issue was that I just had an oracle or two in as a hedge element that always seemed to come out the turn after Lilly which was sometimes awkward.

[Michael Keller]

This list as been performing very well for me lately.

[MD]
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
2 Island
1 Forest
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Bajouka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Townos
2 Pithing Needle
4 Repeal
2 Moment's Peace
3 Show and Tell

[SB]
4 Swan Song
1 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip
1 Hydroblast
4 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm

Not that it matters, but given you've mentioned the relevance of specific sideboard cards aimed at fighting various meta contenders - one of which being Sneak and Show - perhaps changing the Hydroblast to a Blue Elemental Blast is a better option. It won't matter in all but the slightest of circumstances (namely against Misdirection), but Sneak and Show variants do run a copy or two of the card and you'd hate to have it Misdirected in that instance when countering or destroying their Sneak Attack.

Again, I'm not saying it's a big deal, but at least it's worth mentioning even though you already have Swan Songs, Needles, etc. Just a friendly observation.

[TimHarding]

Not that it matters, but given you've mentioned the relevance of specific sideboard cards aimed at fighting various meta contenders - one of which being Sneak and Show - perhaps changing the Hydroblast to a Blue Elemental Blast is a better option. It won't matter in all but the slightest of circumstances (namely against Misdirection), but Sneak and Show variants do run a copy or two of the card and you'd hate to have it Misdirected in that instance when countering or destroying their Sneak Attack.

Again, I'm not saying it's a big deal, but at least it's worth mentioning even though you already have Swan Songs, Needles, etc. Just a friendly observation.

It's funny because I actually sided it in against Merfolk and blew up an image with it FTW, but I agree that the misdirected red target will likely come up slightly more often so it'll likely turn to BEB. Thanks for the feedback!

[Lord Seth]

I've been really enjoying Urzatron in Modern, so I'm trying to get 12-Post together for Legacy (going for the Mono-Green variant due to lack of Show and Tells and Breeding Pools). How critical is Karakas? I've got it mostly complete, but I'm not sure I'll be able to get a Karakas soon.

Obviously Karakas is really great for the deck, but is it at least playable without it?

[Togores]

Its playable. But many wins come because of karakas. Like your opponent having 13737373 dudes and you casting emrakul with karakas and wining infinite turns. For decks like elfs its quite important. And also to beat decks like sneak and show. Also helps a lot vs taxes.

[203995014]

I've been really enjoying Urzatron in Modern, so I'm trying to get 12-Post together for Legacy (going for the Mono-Green variant due to lack of Show and Tells and Breeding Pools). How critical is Karakas? I've got it mostly complete, but I'm not sure I'll be able to get a Karakas soon.

Obviously Karakas is really great for the deck, but is it at least playable without it?

You REALLY have to be playing blue for the deck to really work. You could play mono green but it is missing a lot of what makes the deck good. I would definitely try and get the blue version if you can.

Karakas isn't really necessary but it is required in some cases to secure some wins.

[Lord Seth]

You REALLY have to be playing blue for the deck to really work. You could play mono green but it is missing a lot of what makes the deck good. I would definitely try and get the blue version if you can.

Karakas isn't really necessary but it is required in some cases to secure some wins.

The fact someone got a Top 4 in the last few months with a Mono-Green version seems to say otherwise. (well, admittedly, he did splash White for some sideboard cards)

[203995014]

The fact someone got a Top 4 in the last few months with a Mono-Green version seems to say otherwise. (well, admittedly, he did splash White for some sideboard cards)

General consensus on the deck when it hit top 4 was that the creator somehow miraculously dodged any combo deck at all. His only real weapon vs. it is GSZ Gaddock Teeg, a very random and well timed Crop Rotation into Bojuka Bog, and a combo of his own that is turn 4 at best which is too slow vs any combo deck. Adding blue not only gives you access to Show and Tell / Brainstorm/ Repeal, but some necessary counterspells and other tools that can be used to fight combo decks in the sideboard. Legacy is a very different format. It's not the 80% fair metagame that modern is.

Edit: If you're new to Legacy as a format itself, then I suggest you do some more research on it before you dive into 12-post which is very skill intensive and requires you to have a pretty good knowledge of the format.

[venice]

Don´t wanna drag this thread into a "How can I play this deck on a budget" discussion - but if you don´t have access to Candelabras, how much worse does the deck get? Are there any substitutes or cards that you would add instead of the Candelabras? I really want to get into this deck, but for now, I don´t have access to any Candelabras and am wondering if the deck is still "playable" (in a serious tournament environment).

Thanks for any helpful comments guys!

[sauce]

it is playable, but it lacks some explosive lines that become available with candelabra.

[venice]

it is playable, but it lacks some explosive lines that become available with candelabra.

Thanks for the quick reply! What would fill those two slots then? I can imagine sth like more Moment´s Peace or Show and Tell to make up for the loss of speed/ explosiveness?!
Is there a successful sample list without Candles?

[sauce]

Thanks for the quick reply! What would fill those two slots then? I can imagine sth like more Moment´s Peace or Show and Tell to make up for the loss of speed/ explosiveness?!
Is there a successful sample list without Candles?

here is one I played to a ridic 80% win rate for 3 months before I got my candelabra:
http://mtgpulse.com/event/15121#213347

edit: except I played -1 Oblivion Stone +1 Brainstorm

[venice]

here is one I played to a ridic 80% win rate for 3 months before I got my candelabra:
http://mtgpulse.com/event/15121#213347

edit: except I played -1 Oblivion Stone +1 Brainstorm

Nice! Thank you! That seems like a good place to start!

[Lord Seth]

General consensus on the deck when it hit top 4 was that the creator somehow miraculously dodged any combo deck at all. His only real weapon vs. it is GSZ Gaddock Teeg, a very random and well timed Crop Rotation into Bojuka Bog, and a combo of his own that is turn 4 at best which is too slow vs any combo deck.

Whoa, that's false. His only real weapon against combo is not Gaddock Teeg/Bojuka Bog. Let's look at the big combo decks in the format:
Show and Tell: The Eldrazi and Primeval Titans make Show and Tell very dangerous for them to rely on, and Pithing Needle beats Sneak Attack. There's also Karakas, of course. If they go for Through the Breach from the sideboard (as I believe Show and Tell does for the mirror), then Karakas beats that.
Elves: Moment's Peace and Glacial Chasm stall them out.
Dredge: Bojuka Bog is of course the biggest thing here, but it seems to be postboard Elephant Grass and Rest In Peace do serious work as well.
Storm: This is where the deck is weakest against, but Leyline of Sanctity turns off Tendrils of Agony (as does Glacial Chasm, for that matter), and Empty the Warrens is also beaten by Glacial Chasm. Granted, only for several turns, but that's all the deck really needs.

Am I missing something? Because it seems like it has reasonable game against all of the big combo decks (there are more fringe ones like High Tide or Belcher, but those are easier to dodge due to their fringe-ness and there are still cards other than Gaddock Teeg and Bojuka Bog that can be used against them). I'll admit I'm certainly not an expert on this deck--heck, I was asking for advice--but claiming the only ways it has to beat combo decks are Gaddock Teeg and Bojuka Bog seems absolutely incorrect.

Adding blue not only gives you access to Show and Tell / Brainstorm/ Repeal, but some necessary counterspells and other tools that can be used to fight combo decks in the sideboard. Legacy is a very different format. It's not the 80% fair metagame that modern is.

Edit: If you're new to Legacy as a format itself, then I suggest you do some more research on it before you dive into 12-post which is very skill intensive and requires you to have a pretty good knowledge of the format.

I'm not new to Legacy as a format at all. I would have thought that my join date and post count would have indicated that. But I am getting bored with Stiflenought and High Tide (the two decks I have built, although I've been selling some cards from them to get the cards for this deck) and think I would enjoy this a lot more.

[Barook]

but Leyline of Sanctity turns off Tendrils of Agony (as does Glacial Chasm, for that matter)

...

Am I missing something?

Glacial Chasm only prevents damage, not life loss - just saying.

[TimHarding]

The mono green version is great for a budget, and works well if you anticipate plenty of DnT, Reanimator, or Dredge, where Crop Rotate was your go-to combo answer anyway.

For the decks that require Blue to get out of trouble (Affinity, elves, Storm, Delver-anything) having repeal/Show&Tell/Brainstorm are clutch cards, nevermind the comprehensive sideboard.

Pithing needle is a wash, as both decks can get it, but blue finds it easier.

Ultimately, The mono green version does VERY little better than the u/g version, on top of being highly matchup reliant; Something that infuriates me.

^^^