[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

[Dr Brian Pepper]

So I cut one stifle, I always found the card just being clunky, and the deck runs well. I have two win a mox top 8s, and a top 32 scg so it seems to work. But, if the release of Dack Fayden, I cut a spell pierce and added him. I was wondering what you're opinions are on him? and a main Life from the loam, I knwo it seems janky but I always feel like the way I lose a lot of games is keeping 1 landers and getting wasted out, just wondering some opinions

[Quasim0ff]

So I cut one stifle, I always found the card just being clunky, and the deck runs well. I have two win a mox top 8s, and a top 32 scg so it seems to work. But, if the release of Dack Fayden, I cut a spell pierce and added him. I was wondering what you're opinions are on him? and a main Life from the loam, I knwo it seems janky but I always feel like the way I lose a lot of games is keeping 1 landers and getting wasted out, just wondering some opinions

RUG delver is a machine. The thing is, the curve is so low and with 18 (14 functional where only 6 taps for mana), 3CMC just seems counterproductive. Also, the value gained by looting ones a turn isn't really as needed in here, where you don't have all that much synergy (ie. Goblin Welder etc).

Also: Needle, however, is also strong in match ups where null rod wouldn't matter at all, like vs SnS (Sneak attack), BUG (Drs) etc.

[Dr Brian Pepper]

RUG delver is a machine. The thing is, the curve is so low and with 18 (14 functional where only 6 taps for mana), 3CMC just seems counterproductive. Also, the value gained by looting ones a turn isn't really as needed in here, where you don't have all that much synergy (ie. Goblin Welder etc).

Also: Needle, however, is also strong in match ups where null rod wouldn't matter at all, like vs SnS (Sneak attack), BUG (Drs) etc.

I agree that maybe Loam is a bit much, but I think maining Dack is the real deal. It gives Rug some late game, and coming from experience, it does suck when a batter-skull hits the field unstifled.

[M+1]

Null Rod: Strong hate, but a bit slow and unflexible. If you cut 1 Ancient Grudge/Destructive Revelry for this, you are more vulnerable to Chalice@1.

3 Stifle: I happen to agree with this number.

Dack: Has some relevant abilities for threshold, but how much help is he against a resolved Batterskull? You can gain control of the equipment, but the 0/0 token stays with the opponent, and Batterskull remains attached to it unless you can get to 5 mana and control a non-shroud creature.

[Dr Brian Pepper]

Null Rod: Strong hate, but a bit slow and unflexible. If you cut 1 Ancient Grudge/Destructive Revelry for this, you are more vulnerable to Chalice@1.

3 Stifle: I happen to agree with this number.

Dack: Has some relevant abilities for threshold, but how much help is he against a resolved Batterskull? You can gain control of the equipment, but the 0/0 token stays with the opponent, and Batterskull remains attached to it unless you can get to 5 mana and control a non-shroud creature.

I dont quite understand you, what does the token have to do with anything? and can they return it to their hand if they dont control it?

[Quasim0ff]

I dont quite understand you, what does the token have to do with anything? and can they return it to their hand if they dont control it?

Yes they can. Also, the batter skull is still equipped to their creature, which mean THEY have a 4/4 black vigilant, life linking token.

[M+1]

They can't use any of its abilities, once you gain control. You can return it to owner's (their) hand, if you wish. I guess that is slightly better than not being able to do anything..
You can attach it to another creature you control (not Nimble Mongoose) if you have 5 mana.
Otherwise it remains attached to whatever it is attached to when you gain control, which means that you still need to deal with a 4/4 vigilance, lifelink.

[BKclassic]

A maindeck Dack Fayden seems much worse than a maindeck True-Name Nemesis, which can also help neutrilize Jiite/Batterskull as well as attack for 3. I don't think I would want either in my 75 though.

[JPoJohnson]

Why are so many people trying to improve and revolutionize something that isn't broken? It's working fantastic with it's current setup.

[rlesko]

Dack Fayden has no business being in this deck.

[Dr Brian Pepper]

They can't use any of its abilities, once you gain control. You can return it to owner's (their) hand, if you wish. I guess that is slightly better than not being able to do anything..
You can attach it to another creature you control (not Nimble Mongoose) if you have 5 mana.
Otherwise it remains attached to whatever it is attached to when you gain control, which means that you still need to deal with a 4/4 vigilance, lifelink.

was unaware of this interactions, considering taking him out now

[poxy14]

upon further testing the past weeks with 2 TNNs...
tnn builts are better vs decks such as bug, dnt, decks that carry removals...but arent that good vs unfair matchups where goyfs shine.
major tourney will be on the 29th...switching back to just 1 tnn and 1 v.cliq main

[Contract Killer]

So I've been a bit MIA lately, but I have been testing a slightly new build and it's been doing ok. Last week it went technically 2-1-1 (split with friend so we both made prizes), but would have gone 3-1 (2/0 deathblade, 2/1 dredge, 0/2 elves, 2/0 elves). This week I went 2/2 (2/0 D&T, 1/3 GBW midrange, 2/0 Jund Lands, 0/2 Deathblade). Anyways onto the list:

53 RUG Delver (-1 Goyf)
1 Sylvan Library
4 Chain Lightning
2 Spell pierce

SB (still tweaking)
Graveyard hate: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
combo hate:
-3 pyroblast (2 for sure not sure about the third)
-2 flusterstorm
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Vendilion Clique
Artifact Hate: Artifact Mutation, destructive Revelry (was a grip, but I think this will be better with the 8 bolts in the main)
D&T hate / other: rough, Sulfur Elemental
control: Sulfuric Vortex (haven't tried this yet hoping it will be good)
Midrange / Secret tech against TNN: Price of Progress

What do you guys think about running a sideboard without Submerge? I'm gambling on not hitting the Goyf decks, but to be honest I never seem to see them anymore. The alternate plan against the bug variants with Goyf is siding in Vortex and Price ideally closing the game before goyf becomes to much of a problem. Still need to test this plan not sure if it will work.

DTB again! Nicely done, Canadian Thresholders! :)

In a large tournament here in Sweden, a RUG pilot made T8 with the good old Thresh 54 + 2 Probes, 2 Forked Bolt, 2 Pierce. He used the following sideboard:

2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Flusterstorm
3 Submerge
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Rough // Tumble
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library

The first 13 cards are very standard, but the last two are not. I kinda like Null Rod to turn off Miracle's Top, DnT's equipment (though Batterskull only partially) and mana-artifacts in Storm. Sylvan Library seems great against a lot of the grindy decks that are DTB:s right now, DnT and DeathBlade for example.

Have any of you guys tried either of these? What are your opinions?

Let me just say the mainboard Library has been amazing for me. For example tonight against Lands I paid 4 life to draw into wasteland + stifle. Another game it drew me into another green source after being wasted off it. Against my GBW match up while I kind of tossed the last game by being too aggressive with my Library it did find Rough game 2 catching a DRS, Confidant and Gatekeeper ( he had confidant which I followed with library then he dropped gatekeeper having me sac goose). The idea behind it in this particular build is it helps find the extra burn and makes your silver bullet sideboard cards more accessible.
Before Library was slow and didn't impact the board, but now the meta has slowed down for TNN. All the decks that were packing lots of turn 2 threats (goyfs, confidants, mystics, hymn etc) have added TNN to the repertoire and in turn slowing them down. It also allows for just some free wins by finding extra bolts on top. Essentially it's a 2 mana jace and we have a lot of shuffle effects to improve it with.
I've never realized how good card advantage was until I chained really broken draws together like Stifle + wasteland, stifle + insert taxing counter, Bolt (for DRS) + insert taxing counter here, etc. Essentially you draw any combination of disruption + counter back up every turn. I would highly recommend trying it out.

[index]

So I've been a bit MIA lately, but I have been testing a slightly new build and it's been doing ok. Last week it went technically 2-1-1 (split with friend so we both made prizes), but would have gone 3-1 (2/0 deathblade, 2/1 dredge, 0/2 elves, 2/0 elves). This week I went 2/2 (2/0 D&T, 1/3 GBW midrange, 2/0 Jund Lands, 0/2 Deathblade). Anyways onto the list:

53 RUG Delver (-1 Goyf)
1 Sylvan Library
4 Chain Lightning
2 Spell pierce

SB (still tweaking)
Graveyard hate: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
combo hate:
-3 pyroblast (2 for sure not sure about the third)
-2 flusterstorm
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Vendilion Clique
Artifact Hate: Artifact Mutation, destructive Revelry (was a grip, but I think this will be better with the 8 bolts in the main)
D&T hate / other: rough, Sulfur Elemental
control: Sulfuric Vortex (haven't tried this yet hoping it will be good)
Midrange / Secret tech against TNN: Price of Progress

What do you guys think about running a sideboard without Submerge? I'm gambling on not hitting the Goyf decks, but to be honest I never seem to see them anymore. The alternate plan against the bug variants with Goyf is siding in Vortex and Price ideally closing the game before goyf becomes to much of a problem. Still need to test this plan not sure if it will work.

Nice list! i've postet the almost same list on the first page of the thread
I love the Price of progress in the sb, and would never leave to a tournament without them. They can knockout a whole deck like esper, lands, aggro loam, and also death and taxes with pushing the last damage.
So, whats your opinion for the two flexslots for spell pierce ? Maybe is it worth to play Envelop, to have better preboard options against Miracle, ANT, Shardless, etc. ?

Greets

[Quasim0ff]

So I've been a bit MIA lately, but I have been testing a slightly new build and it's been doing ok. Last week it went technically 2-1-1 (split with friend so we both made prizes), but would have gone 3-1 (2/0 deathblade, 2/1 dredge, 0/2 elves, 2/0 elves). This week I went 2/2 (2/0 D&T, 1/3 GBW midrange, 2/0 Jund Lands, 0/2 Deathblade). Anyways onto the list:

53 RUG Delver (-1 Goyf)
1 Sylvan Library
4 Chain Lightning
2 Spell pierce

SB (still tweaking)
Graveyard hate: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
combo hate:
-3 pyroblast (2 for sure not sure about the third)
-2 flusterstorm
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Vendilion Clique
Artifact Hate: Artifact Mutation, destructive Revelry (was a grip, but I think this will be better with the 8 bolts in the main)
D&T hate / other: rough, Sulfur Elemental
control: Sulfuric Vortex (haven't tried this yet hoping it will be good)
Midrange / Secret tech against TNN: Price of Progress

What do you guys think about running a sideboard without Submerge? I'm gambling on not hitting the Goyf decks, but to be honest I never seem to see them anymore. The alternate plan against the bug variants with Goyf is siding in Vortex and Price ideally closing the game before goyf becomes to much of a problem. Still need to test this plan not sure if it will work.



Let me just say the mainboard Library has been amazing for me. For example tonight against Lands I paid 4 life to draw into wasteland + stifle. Another game it drew me into another green source after being wasted off it. Against my GBW match up while I kind of tossed the last game by being too aggressive with my Library it did find Rough game 2 catching a DRS, Confidant and Gatekeeper ( he had confidant which I followed with library then he dropped gatekeeper having me sac goose). The idea behind it in this particular build is it helps find the extra burn and makes your silver bullet sideboard cards more accessible.
Before Library was slow and didn't impact the board, but now the meta has slowed down for TNN. All the decks that were packing lots of turn 2 threats (goyfs, confidants, mystics, hymn etc) have added TNN to the repertoire and in turn slowing them down. It also allows for just some free wins by finding extra bolts on top. Essentially it's a 2 mana jace and we have a lot of shuffle effects to improve it with.
I've never realized how good card advantage was until I chained really broken draws together like Stifle + wasteland, stifle + insert taxing counter, Bolt (for DRS) + insert taxing counter here, etc. Essentially you draw any combination of disruption + counter back up every turn. I would highly recommend trying it out.

I've been testing no submerges for the last looong time, and I haven't missed them. There isn't, however, any KotR-decks in my meta either, which would be were I'd be missing it the most.

I am, however, playing 2 spell snare over 2 spell pierce. I think they are a stronger card, and the only thing they don't hit is top + SnT. This makes goyf a slightly less problematic card for me.

[poxy14]

Ive cut the third submerge too, replacing it with the 2snare..has more application these days with less kotrs, goyfs in the field..anytime u face off bug, patriot, jund, dnt it has major impact early and midgame...and can still be very helpful vs chalice1, gsz1, defense grids, price progress, burning wish at infernals.

[Kamus]

Which is the best choice for removal, besides lightning bolt?
- 2 Forked Bolt ?
- 2 Fire/Ice ?
- 2 Chain Lightning ?

Even the majority of the recent lists uses forked bolt, I personally prefer chain lightning.
Removals are one of the leaks of this type of Delver deck, in my opinion. You can't easily handle a tarmogoyf or any other big creatures!
For example, Patriot has StP and Team America has Abrupt Decay for this kind of situation..
I'm looking for a solution for this removal problem, but unfortunately I believe there is no one

[Purgatory]

Which is the best choice for removal, besides lightning bolt?
- 2 Forked Bolt ?
- 2 Fire/Ice ?
- 2 Chain Lightning ?

Even the majority of the recent lists uses forked bolt, I personally prefer chain lightning.
Removals are one of the leaks of this type of Delver deck, in my opinion. You can't easily handle a tarmogoyf or any other big creatures!
For example, Patriot has StP and Team America has Abrupt Decay for this kind of situation..
I'm looking for a solution for this removal problem, but unfortunately I believe there is no one

If your meta game has a lot of bigger creatures, consider Dismember. It's really good, even if it's always -4 life for us.

[ShiftyKapree]

How do you guys feel about Sulfur Elemental, I notice most decks no longer pack him in the sb. I think needles are needed in today's meta, possibly a 1 needle, 1 null rod

[poxy14]

Which is the best choice for removal, besides lightning bolt?
- 2 Forked Bolt ?
- 2 Fire/Ice ?
- 2 Chain Lightning ?

before i used forked bolts, and it's truly amazing...but seeing less goyfs around in my meta filled with drs/sfms...ive switched to TARFIRES
i carry a 7 burn list (4bolts, 2 tarfires, 1 fice - to up my blue count still, and tap tempo big crits when im ahead)
i would always want my spot removals to be instant, since i carry 1 or sometimes 2 TNNs main (replaced the 2nd with v.cliq upon testing), so i could do something when i arrive to three manas. ive always felt comfortable with additional burn, so i dont need to counter backbreakers like sfms, drs, mom...thus reserving counters to impt spells like tnns, shows, lotvs and such..

@shiftykapree: there are lots still (DnTs) in my meta, ive cut sulfur and replaced them needles, sulfur can be very effective once u land them, but will still be vulnerable to removal, i just tried to burn asap mom when i see one..2 roughs in the sb will surely be of help, i added the 2nd tnn in the sb, and helped me alot battling white army, but also make sure of the correct timing with rough...coz it hits own tnn..