[Deck] Imperial Painter

[Will_L]

This thread, as I understand it, is specifically for Imperial Painter and not just any Painter's Servant deck.

[Moomba]

This thread, as I understand it, is specifically for Imperial Painter and not just any Painter's Servant deck.

Pretty much this, it's why the UR Painter's Stone has its own thread. Either have Recruiters or don't post in the Imperial Painter thread.

[LeoCop 90]

Everything you mention above helps control the game in order to to deploy your strategy. None of them win you the game. You still have to activate a grindstone with painter successfully staying on the board or beat down with little dorks. Helm/rip is a potential alternative combo that you could play. The problem is that it doesn't interact with welders very well

Well, I don't think you strictly need 2 different combos to straight out win the game in main deck. Extra combos can be useful out of the board against decks playing needle/revoker or surgical extraction. In game 1, shortcake is versatile enough to win with fast combo, control the game or even go beatdown mode.

Let me clarify a little bit : I am not entirely adverse about playing another combo main deck, but it is a matter of balancing consistency and versatility. We already play 1-of cards (jaya, koth) , 2 -of cards (top, welder,) , lock pieces , blasts , as well as grindstone and painter. We are able to do this thanks to enlightened tutor wich ensures both consistency (find combo pieces) and versatility (find silver bullets). I am afraid that including even another combo could make the deck a bit too inconsistent (i already notice some sketchy hands and mulligans playing shortcake). But in the end we are talking about 2 cards so if you feel you need this extra combo you can go for it.

[zangoasyl]

Drude, did you continue some testing with absolute law? I'm curious about it...

[drude1]

Drude, did you continue some testing with absolute law? I'm curious about it...

I did. It's definitely worth considering for some matchups. It's obviously bonkers against burn, goblins, RUG delver, etc. it was surprisingly good against miracles as you could set painter to red and then their jaces, swords, and targeted artifact removal were shut off. They could only disrupt you with terminus. Just doesn't work at all against other creature heavy strategies unless you have bridge out. It also turns off some of your cards like Jaya and sometimes welder on your own creatures. My list currently has become very welder dependent (I'm playing 4 copies) as I'm now on tangle wire for more of a prison strategy. So, right now I'm less keen on absolute law. I considered switching to absolute grace which would turn my cards back on and still give me game against miracles and such and would also shut off abrupt decay against me. It just doesn't give you the natural advantage against burn removal.


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[drude1]

Well, I don't think you strictly need 2 different combos to straight out win the game in main deck. Extra combos can be useful out of the board against decks playing needle/revoker or surgical extraction. In game 1, shortcake is versatile enough to win with fast combo, control the game or even go beatdown mode.

Let me clarify a little bit : I am not entirely adverse about playing another combo main deck, but it is a matter of balancing consistency and versatility. We already play 1-of cards (jaya, koth) , 2 -of cards (top, welder,) , lock pieces , blasts , as well as grindstone and painter. We are able to do this thanks to enlightened tutor wich ensures both consistency (find combo pieces) and versatility (find silver bullets). I am afraid that including even another combo could make the deck a bit too inconsistent (i already notice some sketchy hands and mulligans playing shortcake). But in the end we are talking about 2 cards so if you feel you need this extra combo you can go for it.

So you already have an alternate win condition in the Koth main (not all lists, including the "official" shortcake list play Koth main). Why not add an alternate win con that you can search for and can manipulate with welders?

Having said that, I'm seeing some issues with thopter combo, mostly the issue of getting my mana to work consistently enough to support a third color. I actually like stoneforge as a possibility as you can put in one copy to search out with recruiters and the jitte is great to deal with certain opponents' strategies, particularly D&T.

I also encourage people to consider trying tangle wires main. Although they don't directly win you the game, they do an amazing job at shutting down opponents while you set up. Welders have amazing synergy with them. I've had several games where my opponent never gets to play with more than one mana at a time even by turn 10 or so. It also supplies you with some sort of prison style element even when your opponent is playing with a lot of basics.


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[cab0747]

Well, it seems burn has blown up since this past weekend's SCG Open. In the last 2 dailies I have played burn 5/8 matches and 3/4 in the most recent event. It seems that Imperial Painter may be in a tough spot right now (on MODO at least).

Has anyone else experienced this or am I getting very unlucky? According to MTGO Goldfish, Burn is now the 3rd most popular deck (but is not up-to-date and I would assume that the number of decks recorded will go up).

I am thinking of switching to Belcher for a bit and waiting for this recent spike in Burn to die down. Has anyone really tailored their sideboard to combat burn? I would imagine with Shortcake it would be possible (4 Leyline 4 Warmth). However, I would NEVER go into a GP or Open with that kind of SB. It seems like it isn't even worth it if I am trying to improve my play with the deck.

Anyway, I just wanted to get some thoughts on this situation.
Thanks!

[jandax]

From my experience, opposing Red decks are always unpleasant. You can SB accordingly if you know you're going to face it quite a bit. Leylines almost shut the deck down, and if you're running white I'd drop the stone and go RipHelm because all theirn burn will be stranded in their hand, and will easily aimed at the painter when you go to combo.

[cab0747]

From my experience, opposing Red decks are always unpleasant. You can SB accordingly if you know you're going to face it quite a bit. Leylines almost shut the deck down, and if you're running white I'd drop the stone and go RipHelm because all theirn burn will be stranded in their hand, and will easily aimed at the painter when you go to combo.

Hmm, good point with the RiP Helm route. I may give that a shot and go heavier on the white.

[pinkfrosting]

Burn is hard but not as bad as some people make it out to be. If you can land the grindstone earlier and then get either painter-painter or painter-red blast in hand, especially if you have 5+ mana available, it's pretty easy to play painter then grind in response to the bolt, or play painter REB grind.

[drude1]

Well, it seems burn has blown up since this past weekend's SCG Open. In the last 2 dailies I have played burn 5/8 matches and 3/4 in the most recent event. It seems that Imperial Painter may be in a tough spot right now (on MODO at least).

Has anyone else experienced this or am I getting very unlucky? According to MTGO Goldfish, Burn is now the 3rd most popular deck (but is not up-to-date and I would assume that the number of decks recorded will go up).

I am thinking of switching to Belcher for a bit and waiting for this recent spike in Burn to die down. Has anyone really tailored their sideboard to combat burn? I would imagine with Shortcake it would be possible (4 Leyline 4 Warmth). However, I would NEVER go into a GP or Open with that kind of SB. It seems like it isn't even worth it if I am trying to improve my play with the deck.

Anyway, I just wanted to get some thoughts on this situation.
Thanks!

I actually love leylines in the board. Gives you outs against burn, belcher, ANT and heavy discard. Also played around with absolute law in the board (see previous posts). If you are on mono-red you gotta hope to drop an early trinisphere or try some welder + wurmcoil engine shenanigans or maybe witchbane orb.


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[Thor Hammer]

Worked Counterbalance into this deck, here's the list I put together...

4 Grindstone
4 Painter's Servant
4 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
4 Counterspell
4 Trinketmage

4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Red Elemental Blast

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
6 Island
2 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb

I think Counterbalance offers this deck another strong combo piece that buys one more time to mill your opponent. Also Brainstorm is IMO the best instant spell in Legacy; so why not use it in any deck if possible? After adding these blue spells it makes perfect sense to run FoW. Trinketmage's ability to search up Grindstone serves the same purpose as Imperial Recruiter does with regard to Painter's Servant. Putting Counterspell in is a natural fit, as it is another blue card to pitch of FoW and another 2 CMC for Counterbalance, plus it's an underrated hard counter that works late in the game unlike Spell Pierce or Daze. This way, even if you can't mill your opponent, you can shut your opponent down with counters which should help all the dorks to get their damage through.

Anyone see any reason why this IPainter build shouldn't work?

[Elfkid]

Hi there, Im not a player of this deck, but i´m here to ask a few questions about it:

1st of all: If I choose this deck obviously I will play it with the Imperial Reruiters (I dont know what there´re people that they dont like it, I know is expensive, but its necesary)

Now my questions ^^

I know the deck wins a lot of times with the lock of the blood moon or magus of the moon, but for example vs elves, merfolks and other decks, we need the ensnaring bridge to win, or be faster than they (in the merfolks I know we have 8 reb, pyro in maindeck, but im speaking about the lock, and they run TNN and vials :P )

Is better the RW version with Enligthened Tutor? or is the MonoR better O rprobably it depends in the metagame?

And a personal questions(Its not important, and U can not answer it^^):

If U were thinkg about the elves deck and the painters deck? what deck you will build? (Obv a lot of people will choose painters cause is the Painters thread xDD)

Regards and thanks for all!!

[Jungian Thing]

Worked Counterbalance into this deck, here's the list I put together...

4 Grindstone
4 Painter's Servant
4 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
4 Counterspell
4 Trinketmage

4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Red Elemental Blast

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
6 Island
2 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb

I think Counterbalance offers this deck another strong combo piece that buys one more time to mill your opponent. Also Brainstorm is IMO the best instant spell in Legacy; so why not use it in any deck if possible? After adding these blue spells it makes perfect sense to run FoW. Trinketmage's ability to search up Grindstone serves the same purpose as Imperial Recruiter does with regard to Painter's Servant. Putting Counterspell in is a natural fit, as it is another blue card to pitch of FoW and another 2 CMC for Counterbalance, plus it's an underrated hard counter that works late in the game unlike Spell Pierce or Daze. This way, even if you can't mill your opponent, you can shut your opponent down with counters which should help all the dorks to get their damage through.

Anyone see any reason why this IPainter build shouldn't work?

Without all the mana acceleration and the lack of long term control - Moon/Bridge. I would think this would be both slow and patchy. It looks like a glass canon but give it a try!

[Jungian Thing]

Hi there, Im not a player of this deck, but i´m here to ask a few questions about it:


If U were thinkg about the elves deck and the painters deck? what deck you will build? (Obv a lot of people will choose painters cause is the Painters thread xDD)

Regards and thanks for all!!

Two completely different decks. Elves is a durdle engine that is as much fun playing by yourself as with someone sitting on the other side of the table starring into space. Painter has interaction and a number of lines of play that only become available when there is an opponent.

You can either become the cool painter guy at your LGS playing something a little different but strong, or you can be the subject of scorn and pity who no longer has any friends and play elves. Up to you.

[Dice_Box]

A turn one Moon against Elves is a lock out almost all the time. The deck runs 20 lands, two of them are basic. I do not know who told you that you NEED bridge to win that game, I suggest slamming Moon ASAP and then bridge second.

Edit: I missed this the first time i looked over the thread

If U were thinkg about the elves deck and the painters deck? what deck you will build? (Obv a lot of people will choose painters cause is the Painters thread xDD)

I own both, I play both, I would build them both again. Elves I feel is the more powerful of the two decks and the more challenging to play, but it is also the one I play less. There is a feeling I get playing Painter I do not get playing anything else. Maybe its the "Oops you lose" cards or watching people fight though my hate, maybe it is the redundancy or the fun that comes from Welder and Jaya I am not sure. But I like Painter. There is a thrill that comes from it. Also there is a great challenge in those games where you slam a Moon turn one only to see a Lackey. Then your heart starts racing and you sit up straighter knowing that you really have to fight for your win. I love that.

[cab0747]

I know the deck wins a lot of times with the lock of the blood moon or magus of the moon, but for example vs elves, merfolks and other decks, we need the ensnaring bridge to win, or be faster than they (in the merfolks I know we have 8 reb, pyro in maindeck, but im speaking about the lock, and they run TNN and vials :P )

The good thing about RW painter is you have the ability to search for your silver bullets. Enlightened tutor makes it WAY easier to grab your bridge in those MUs. Additionally, welder is great if they decide to blow up your bridge. Yet another thing they have to push through before going for lethal.

Is better the RW version with Enligthened Tutor? or is the MonoR better O rprobably it depends in the metagame?

I am sure Kapn can post some serious numbers about RW being better (and he has played both for some time now) but I think it is meta dependent. If Blood Moon will win you the game on the spot in most of your matches, Mono R might be better. In a meta with a lot of (like you mentioned above) Elves, Merfolk, Dredge, Reanimator, and things were Blood Moon is a hindrance but not a win, the RW version may be better as it has answers to a lot of decks and can tutor for those answers. In an open meta I knew nothing about (like a big GP or SCG Open) I would take RW.

If U were thinkg about the elves deck and the painters deck? what deck you will build? (Obv a lot of people will choose painters cause is the Painters thread xDD)

Elves always seemed like fun to me. I don't think either deck would be a bad choice. Again, I think you might want to see how your meta is when deciding. Additionally, I feel that painter has more interaction than elves, but elves combo is more consistent. This is 100% personal preference. If it helps, I haven;t grown bored with painter in the least. Still very fun, very interactive, and it is enjoyable when you can tell your play with the deck improves. Edit: Also, T1 Moons and then an auto-concession from your opponent are always fun. Painter has a few angles and the lists can be flexible depending on your play-style. These things make Painter a better choice in my eyes.

*Edited for formatting

[Elfkid]

Thanks for all the answers!

My current metagame is arround 20-30 players and the decks are probably lot of delver decks (That there are good matchups for the elves and the painter.deck) but obviously I will travel to a biggest tournaments, gp´s, opens so im looking for a flexible deck, I think elves is most powerfull but its more hateable than painters, haters gonna hate, Im readding a lot of post here and in the elves thread to think more relax what is the deck im looking for.

And, to take moar information, which are the most difficult pairings for painters? I think decks like monoR, dredge and probably storm are bad matchups but I´m not clear about it :P

Thanks forr all!

Regards!

[Ish]

Thanks for all the answers!

My current metagame is arround 20-30 players and the decks are probably lot of delver decks (That there are good matchups for the elves and the painter.deck) but obviously I will travel to a biggest tournaments, gp´s, opens so im looking for a flexible deck, I think elves is most powerfull but its more hateable than painters, haters gonna hate, Im readding a lot of post here and in the elves thread to think more relax what is the deck im looking for.

And, to take moar information, which are the most difficult pairings for painters? I think decks like monoR, dredge and probably storm are bad matchups but I´m not clear about it :P

Thanks forr all!

Regards!

As for deck choice... They are so totally different. I prefer painter... But that's why I'm in this thread and not elves.

But they both rely on creatures for the main combo. So the disruption against them is similiar... Though hand disruption is better against painter than elves and sweepers are great vs elves.

The bad matchups are pretty similiar. Burn, storm etc. But painter's bloodmoon can give some free wins against some tempo decks.

Overall in the current meta I feel like elves is a hair stronger vs many of the temp strategies. HOWEVER... If you can ride blood moon (gotta draw it, gotta stick it, and before they can tap in response for abrupt decay)... The. Painter beats 3 color tempo.

In my experience though... Painter struggles against tempo. They have counters, hand disruption (BUG), and plenty of removal. All good against painter. Again blood moon is our out there.


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[Dice_Box]

You would be surprised just how useful Moon is against Storm and Dredge. Storm often needs cantrips to shape its hand, you take away blue save for petals and you really hurt them. ANT being the big one, TES will just Wish into something useful and then break you but they still need to find that card.

I think the hardest matches tend to be those that are lest effected by moon and can disrupt you. Miracles run a good amount of basics and if they get countertop online, you just can't win. Not unless you already had stone down. Goblins is another. Moon cuts off there control, but they are not slow and if you hand them a fist full of mountains in the place of their greedy 8 colorless lands, they get faster.

Burn is Burn. Ouch. DnT is evil. Not unbeatable but they can kill your searching (Turing off Imps) make everything cost more and lock down your mana. Moon is useful, more so than you would think, but Vial just makes you want to cry sometimes. Fish is another. Many basics, Vial and counters. Not fun. The funny thing is though, Fish is not as fast a deck as it first appears. With a good hand you can disrupt them.

Honestly though, the deck I hate the most is Reanimator. Disruption, fast and has a toolbox. Worst part is Iona. We need to paint the world a colour to win, she can punish us hard for it. Also, most of their business spells are black... not fun.