[Deck] Sneak and Show

[JPA]

Congrats Jeremy!

[Unassigned]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=69466

Well, we got there sorta. The losses occurred in round 3 to Death and Taxes and round 7 to BUG delver. BUG continues to be one of our hardest matchups, and in my loss I had to mulligan in the two games I lost. Winning that match starting with 6 is VERY difficult.

I'm in love with fire//ice. It did so much work today. MVP play was killing a Mother of Runes and a Phyrexian Revoker at end of turn after Mom was vialed in.

Jace also did incredible work. He's definitely there to stay.

Overall, I think this is still a premier deck. We still have bad matchups, but they are definitely winnable. I think BUG is probably the worst, so I'm going to be searching for better ways to handle that matchup. I was able to win against a BUG deck in round 9, which felt like a good piece of redemption.

Congrats on the nice finish, bud!

I don't know if it's me or what, but BUG (Shardless, Delver and Traditional Control) have recently been extremely easy for me. If I manage to get game 1, I'm boarding out all of my Forces, along with a mixture of others depending on what version I'm playing against, and I'm bringing in 2 Ashen Rider, 2 Through the Breach, 2 Pyroclasm and 3 Blood Moon. Sometimes I'll also bring in Boseiju and/or the Swan Songs/Flusterstorms. That match is traditionally about resources and I've felt that the Forces deplete you too much in a match where their plan is to run YOU out of resources, so don't play into their plan.

I'm very happy that you're enjoying the Fire/Ice plan. I tweeted Gerry Thompson about it since he's going to be writing an article about Sneak & Show in the next day or two on SCG. I'm expecting the usual complainers to be calling for the banning of Show & Tell or Griselbrand in the comments section.

Another idea I've been running online, believe it or not, has been running a trio of Batterskull in the sideboard. With the sol lands, it's been surprisingly good. While three may not be the correct number, it's definitely been hilarious to suit up an Emrakul into a 19/19 vigilant lifelinker.

btw, added you on FB Jeremy.

[J-Funk]

I was wondering who that was, makes sense now!

I find BUG most difficult because of all of the angles they can attack us from. In my match loss, the real and true killer was a resolved Lilliana. I really don't see a good way to come back from that card. I'm probably going to experiment with Pithing needles in the sideboard. Between Needle and Blood moon we should be able to completely turn off their threats. I'm also considering putting 1-2 Diverts in the board to send Thoughtseizes and Hymns back at their face. I feel Divert is probably better than Misdirection as BUG players tend to tap out for their early discard spells, and I don't want to be losing two cards for the play. I'll let you know where I end up.

[JPA]

the real and true killer was a resolved Lilliana. I really don't see a good way to come back from that card.

Top is pretty good against Liliana. It can help you find Sneak Attack while floating creature(s) on top, essentially enabling you to win with 0 cards in hand.

[Unassigned]

I was wondering who that was, makes sense now!

You mean who tweeted Gerry?

Also, SDT is beneficial, but I think that this is really matchup dependent. I like it in more of the aggro matchups instead of Jace, but Jace tends to win out against the field.

[The Duressed]

You mean who tweeted Gerry?

Also, SDT is beneficial, but I think that this is really matchup dependent. I like it in more of the aggro matchups instead of Jace, but Jace tends to win out against the field.

Does it win out against the field, though? I've been thinking about this for a while, and I keep flipping back and forth between Jace and SDT.

** SDT
RUG
BUG tempo
BUG Shardless
Patriot
Death and Taxes

** Jace
Miracles
Mirror
Omni-Show
Stoneblade

** Jace? They're both pretty bad
Reanimator
Storm
Elves

Agree? Disagree? It kind of seems like your choice depends mostly on the meta game you expect. I don't really like saying that because there probably should be an answer that is more correct in more situations, but I can't seem to find it.

[JPA]

Does it win out against the field, though? I've been thinking about this for a while, and I keep flipping back and forth between Jace and SDT.

** SDT
RUG
BUG tempo
BUG Shardless
Patriot
Death and Taxes

** Jace
Miracles
Mirror
Omni-Show
Stoneblade

** Jace? They're both pretty bad
Reanimator
Storm
Elves

Agree? Disagree? It kind of seems like your choice depends mostly on the meta game you expect. I don't really like saying that because there probably should be an answer that is more correct in more situations, but I can't seem to find it.

Disagreeing with your list. ;-) Top is excellent in any matchup where you have to fight against discard or, just like Jace, where the games go long. Both Top and Jace are not that great against Tempo decks (except BUG), since they are too slow most of the time. Jace is definitely higher impact than Top, but doesn't do anything against early-game discard.

[Unassigned]

Gerry Thompson gave a much appreciated shout out to Jeremy and I, Re: Fire // Ice.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...types=og.likes

[GoblinZ]

Does it win out against the field, though? I've been thinking about this for a while, and I keep flipping back and forth between Jace and SDT.

** SDT
RUG
BUG tempo
BUG Shardless
Patriot
Death and Taxes

** Jace
Miracles
Mirror
Omni-Show
Stoneblade

** Jace? They're both pretty bad
Reanimator
Storm
Elves

Agree? Disagree? It kind of seems like your choice depends mostly on the meta game you expect. I don't really like saying that because there probably should be an answer that is more correct in more situations, but I can't seem to find it.

I used to think top is bad against storm because it is too slow, but it turns out to be pretty good in some situations. playing top and hiding a fow on the top of library is really hard for them to get through...

And about Jace: after some testing, I finally drop the Jace for top and preodain...I predict my meta will become faster than before, playing Jace against DnT, burn or some tempo variant seems really poor...

And I doubt Jace is really great against miracle, especially post board. Tapping out for Jace is really a dangerous move imo, they may just blast your Jace and resolve Counterbalance, Jace or something else.

[J-Funk]

Loving the shout-out. Feels good, man. Re: this jace conversation, I am 100% on board with keeping him in at the moment. He does much good and gets us out of so many jams. Obviously there are matchup a where I want to cut him, but most of the time he is amazing. This is my own personal experience. I still want to find room for sdt, but I think I might actually be in the sideboard.

Gerry Thompson gave a much appreciated shout out to Jeremy and I, Re: Fire // Ice.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...types=og.likes

[i_b_TRUE]

Hey guys, another Sneak and Show player here! I also feel that Jace is necessary in the decklist. was wondering how you feel about Blood moon in the SB? Gerry T went over why its actually terrible in the decklist. what do you guys think?

[J-Funk]

Hey guys, another Sneak and Show player here! I also feel that Jace is necessary in the decklist. was wondering how you feel about Blood moon in the SB? Gerry T went over why its actually terrible in the decklist. what do you guys think?

I'm totally done with Blood Moon. Any game where it makes a difference is a game where my opponent is off to a bad start anyway. It almost never gets slammed on Turn 1, and by turn 2 or 3 an opponent usually has a DRS or Delver on the board, so it's only going to make so much of a difference. I'm excited to try Pithing Needle in its spot for now.

[i_b_TRUE]

Yes I have added in pithing needle as well... Great against SdT and Karakas. Also been testing misdirection as it was something GerryT thought needed to be added to the SB. He didn't like through the breach but I feel it's needed

[J-Funk]

Yes I have added in pithing needle as well... Great against SdT and Karakas. Also been testing misdirection as it was something GerryT thought needed to be added to the SB. He didn't like through the breach but I feel it's needed

I'm actually going to be testing Divert instead of Misdirection, but the thought is the same. I don't like the idea of having even more pitch cards in a deck where cantripping and countering is so important

[Unassigned]

Hey guys, another Sneak and Show player here! I also feel that Jace is necessary in the decklist. was wondering how you feel about Blood moon in the SB? Gerry T went over why its actually terrible in the decklist. what do you guys think?

Not sure about you guys, but Blood Moon is a must IMHO. Perhaps I'm having unusually positive results, but this has shut off so many decks that we really need to slow down. Reanimator (A really bad matchup for us) being one of them. In DRS matchups, I place a higher priority on countering or using a Fire/Ice on a DRS if I decide to go the Blood Moon route. Delver and Goyf are annoying while in play, but if you're already too behind to make Blood Moon worth it, then you shouldn't even bother with that path. Your main focus at that point should be trying to force through your threats. I ran into this situation several times and I have to disagree that Blood Moon is unnecessary.

TTB vs Omni is a tough call, because I feel that comparing them is like apples and oranges. They aren't meant to do the same thing. TTB is a "surprise!" tactic, while Omni is 99% of the time being paired with a Show & Tell.

[J-Funk]

Not sure about you guys, but Blood Moon is a must IMHO. Perhaps I'm having unusually positive results, but this has shut off so many decks that we really need to slow down. Reanimator (A really bad matchup for us) being one of them. In DRS matchups, I place a higher priority on countering or using a Fire/Ice on a DRS if I decide to go the Blood Moon route. Delver and Goyf are annoying while in play, but if you're already too behind to make Blood Moon worth it, then you shouldn't even bother with that path. Your main focus at that point should be trying to force through your threats. I ran into this situation several times and I have to disagree that Blood Moon is unnecessary.

TTB vs Omni is a tough call, because I feel that comparing them is like apples and oranges. They aren't meant to do the same thing. TTB is a "surprise!" tactic, while Omni is 99% of the time being paired with a Show & Tell.

Blood moon is one of those weird "your mileage may vary" cards that really comes down to personal experience. I think a lot of us have love/hate relationships with it because when it is good, it's incredible. But when it's a dead draw or comes down too late it's incredibly frustrating. I'm curious to see if I will miss it with my new SB build. I'll report back findings.

[menace13]

Reanimator (A really bad matchup for us) being one of them.

I dont think Moon is useful in that match up. Theyre much faster than any other combo deck not named storm. They need 1 swamp for the combo split up over a turn and a half. Even worse against lists with ritual.

[GoblinZ]

I dont think Moon is useful in that match up. Theyre much faster than any other combo deck not named storm. They need 1 swamp for the combo split up over a turn and a half. Even worse against lists with ritual.

even worse because they run petals...

[Unassigned]

I dont think Moon is useful in that match up. Theyre much faster than any other combo deck not named storm. They need 1 swamp for the combo split up over a turn and a half. Even worse against lists with ritual.

I've routinely brought in Blood Moon (on the play, not on the draw) and have had enough success to justify the inclusion of it in this matchup. While most builds do have a single Swamp and Island, saying that it's a bad concept because they have Petals and 2 basics while we bring it into matchups that have more sources than this feels like this is kind of a poor argument to make.

[The Duressed]

Loving this conversation about Jace, top, and moon. Here's another somewhat contentious issue: how do people feel about two Ashen Rider in the side? Where are the match ups that this really shines? Is it worth it?