Miracle Control

[useL]

I appreciate your input on Keranos guys but get your facts straight, he does not get spell pierced at all, illegal target. Therefore he costs less than Ajani and plays around Thalia since on the stack he is a creature.

[Einherjer]

That's what I was saying, just in a more sarcastic way...

Greetings

[YamiJoey]

yeah, Ajani does require us to be babysitter. However, it does allow us to gain life, which is the difference between a win or a loss sometimes. Furthermore, it costs 1 less than Keranos, sometimes 1 less is the difference between running into a Spell Pierce or not. I'm not saying I favor one or the other. If one does want to add a high impact card, I would say it's between Keranos and Ajani.

BAD NEWS for all Miracles players.


Well..., there goes the CB-T against Elves.

So we counter their GSZ/NO like we always would, (or this if they cast it) and move on with our lives.

EDIT: And who cares? If they land this at least we get to look at some sweet artwork!

[zeus-online]

BAD NEWS for all Miracles players.

Yeah, bad news for...magic players worldwide. Terrible frame....card looks terrible.

But i don't really see why this would be all that bad for miracle control.

[twndomn]

So we counter their GSZ/NO like we always would, (or this if they cast it) and move on with our lives.

EDIT: And who cares? If they land this at least we get to look at some sweet artwork!

Because elves already run Abrupt Decay from SB, now they run Abrupt Decay And that.

[TheArchitect]

Because elves already run Abrupt Decay from SB, now they run Abrupt Decay And that.

If they resolve a tutor (a big if) and it's finding that instead of teeg or hoof I'm happy.

[twndomn]

If they resolve a tutor (a big if) and it's finding that instead of teeg or hoof I'm happy.

less and less elf players are running Teeg, since it messes up their own GSZ and NO, just look at SCG Portland and LV.

[Dzra]

Is siding out CB against elves correct if you know for sure they are boarding in 3x Abrupt decays !?

I wouldn't; Elves isn't particularly well equipped to dig for Abrupt Decays and unlike some MUs where Counterbalance is merely good, against Elves it is absurd.

And I wouldn't be worried about Reclamation Sage... Sure it's good but they already run Abrupt Decay and it's not like we shouldn't already be wary of GSZ.

[janluis1]

Is siding out CB against elves correct if you know for sure they are boarding in 3x Abrupt decays !?

Im with the Snapcaster version

Cheers

up

[dte]

I believe that between the printing of reclamation sage and council's judgment, the elf MU should not be worse for miracles than it used to be.

The G1 is a bit better for elves now, with a way of dealing with CB; but post SB you have more ways to deal with progenitus, rod, choke and needle...

[ghost_tmd]

up

They dont have the tools to find decay consistently. So i think its not worthing taking out the cbs.

Changing the subject, anyone having trouble against ub tezzeret? Its a really hard mu. My friend has one and he put a lot of bombs in like 8 walkers beeing 2 jtms, 4 agents of bolas and 2 tezz the seeker plus 4 chalices, thopter combo, ensnaring bridge and transmute artifact.

Basically if he resolves any single spell above he wins the game, instead of bridge. Chalices turn 1 just wins on the spot.

With sol lands and mana artifacts he can land a jtms asa turn 2. Played 6 games pre board and lost 5. Played 10 games sideboarded and lost 8.

[Ltj999]

anyone have any tips on the Esper Deathblade match-up? I got throughly trounced by it last night, granted the player was very experienced and I've only been playing miracles for about 5 weeks now. It was my first time playing the match-up. I just felt totally on the back foot the whole game, and by the time I got any kind of meaningful top/balance lock going I had so little breathing room that anything he would get through was game over.

my boarding plan was like this:

-4 fow
-2 spell pierce
+1 supreme verdict
+1 EE
+1 wear/tear
+1 councils judgment (I run one main as well)
+1 pithing needle
+1 entreat (2 main)


I dont know if that was correct but I just went with a general miracles policy that I don't want to be getting into counter wars with fair decks.

Also I lost a miracles mirror by via baneslayer angel, now thats some tech right there!

[exallium]

anyone have any tips on the Esper Deathblade match-up? I got throughly trounced by it last night, granted the player was very experienced and I've only been playing miracles for about 5 weeks now. It was my first time playing the match-up. I just felt totally on the back foot the whole game, and by the time I got any kind of meaningful top/balance lock going I had so little breathing room that anything he would get through was game over.

my boarding plan was like this:

-4 fow
-2 spell pierce
+1 supreme verdict
+1 EE
+1 wear/tear
+1 councils judgment (I run one main as well)
+1 pithing needle
+1 entreat (2 main)


I dont know if that was correct but I just went with a general miracles policy that I don't want to be getting into counter wars with fair decks.

Also I lost a miracles mirror by via baneslayer angel, now thats some tech right there!

It's hard to say for certain without knowing your full board. I'd bring in a few REB effects, as it counters TNN and Vindicates JTMS. I don't hate Spell Pierce in this matchup either as they are running Liliana of the Veil along with DRS, but it can become an awkward card late game, so I can see why you'd want it out of your deck. Needle isn't 100% necessary, because of all the hate you've already brought in for artifacts and planeswalkers, and generally Needle is a bad way to deal with Planeswalkers, as it is only temporary and they'll likely bring in some form of hate.

It's not an easy matchup, per say, but you should definitely have the tools to handle it. Cut down on the number of swords and load up on hate. That deck's primary kill con is TNN with something strapped onto it. Don't be afraid to blast their CA cards like brainstorm and ponder as well, but be careful if you see wasteland and aren't running a singleton mountain. It's better in those cases to leave your volcanic islands in your deck until you absolutely need them. Also, if you have it in your 75, blood moon is absolutely amazing in this matchup, and can often serve to lock them out of the game. Just make sure you get your landbase developed enough first.

EDIT. I also am not 100% set on bringing in a third entreat. It's probably fine but in my mind this game is being won with VClique, Venser, and terminus. We are definitely in the control role for this matchup, and being able to efficiently dodge their own verdicts (their only answer to a resolved entreat, besides maybe EE), is very valuable. A bouncy clique backed up by boardwipes seems good vs TNN decks.

[Adryan]

I think Elves is still very positive for Miracles. I always side Counterbalance out anyways, because it belongs to the 15 worst cards postboard. Of course it depends on the SB. Reasons:

.) i played a lot against Elves on Modo and i did lose only a few games, so i can remember every loss against them. I never got grinded out or slowly beaten to death. The games i lost were because they comboed off very early or resolved huge bombs like Choke. Counterbalance is very unreliable in stopping them from comboing off early and countering huge bombs (CMC3/4) and i want consistency.

.) Counterbalance can be very dangerous if they have removal for it postboard, because you tap out they remove it EOT and play one of their combo cards. A minor reason to be honest.

[janluis1]

I think Elves is still very positive for Miracles. I always side Counterbalance out anyways, because it belongs to the 15 worst cards postboard. Of course it depends on the SB. Reasons:

.) i played a lot against Elves on Modo and i did lose only a few games, so i can remember every loss against them. I never got grinded out or slowly beaten to death. The games i lost were because they comboed off very early or resolved huge bombs like Choke. Counterbalance is very unreliable in stopping them from comboing off early and countering huge bombs (CMC3/4) and i want consistency.

.) Counterbalance can be very dangerous if they have removal for it postboard, because you tap out they remove it EOT and play one of their combo cards. A minor reason to be honest.

glad im not the only one sharing this opinion.
I played a g2 against elves in GP milan side event last weekend siding out all counterbalance and i left my opponent with 2 dead cards in hand.
He eventually died with the usual entreat the angels after i resolves explosived for 1 and terminus and jace the mindsculptor.

I dont like cb post board because you could actually loose the turn you cast it if elves player get a nice draw. Im more concerned in resolving my removals and answering their hate.

Cheers

[Dzra]

Counterbalance can be very dangerous if they have removal for it postboard, because you tap out they remove it EOT and play one of their combo cards. A minor reason to be honest.

There's no rule that says Counterbalance has to be played on turn two when they are just sitting there with Abrupt Decay mana up. The best card against Elves remains Terminus, so if you have the option to leave Terminus (or maybe even a Plow/Counterspell up) then that is probably a strong move. Counterbalance is more for stopping them from rebuilding post-Terminus rather than just getting them from the get-go.

If you're siding out Counterbalances then what are you bringing/leaving in instead? I think Jace is a much riskier card to tap out for and you don't need more than one (maybe two) Entreats since you absolutely don't want to see one early. Rather than siding out Counterbalances, the best thing to do against Elves (and Storm for that matter) is simply to resolve multiple Counterbalances. They can't have all the removal and the ability to combo off.

[janluis1]

There's no rule that says Counterbalance has to be played on turn two when they are just sitting there with Abrupt Decay mana up. The best card against Elves remains Terminus, so if you have the option to leave Terminus (or maybe even a Plow/Counterspell up) then that is probably a strong move. Counterbalance is more for stopping them from rebuilding post-Terminus rather than just getting them from the get-go.

If you're siding out Counterbalances then what are you bringing/leaving in instead? I think Jace is a much riskier card to tap out for and you don't need more than one (maybe two) Entreats since you absolutely don't want to see one early. Rather than siding out Counterbalances, the best thing to do against Elves (and Storm for that matter) is simply to resolve multiple Counterbalances. They can't have all the removal and the ability to combo off.

I sided out 3 counterbalance - 1 spell pierce and sided in 2 explosives 1 council judgment and 1 counterspell

im with snapcaster flash list

[oarsman]

ghost,

You aren't really supposed to be able to win on any sort of consistent basis. The original version was already difficult, and I believe my updates have made it even harder. Tezzeret has a ton of bombs that Miracles cannot easily deal with, any one of which can win the game. And the sideboard is designed to defeat the cards you most need to bring in. It isn't a commonly played deck though, and has several weaknesses. I wouldn't worry about it.

[ghost_tmd]

ghost,

You aren't really supposed to be able to win on any sort of consistent basis. The original version was already difficult, and I believe my updates have made it even harder. Tezzeret has a ton of bombs that Miracles cannot easily deal with, any one of which can win the game. And the sideboard is designed to defeat the cards you most need to bring in. It isn't a commonly played deck though, and has several weaknesses. I wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks man. I though i was doing something wrong. Anyway rebs maindeck improves the mu a litle bit.

[danyul]

Big grats to Michael for the finish, but I wasn't a fan of how he navigated those games or how he sideboarded. I think Shardless BUG is all about value, but that's only a trap for us. We can't realistically fight their 2-for-1s and gain any value. The way we win is with trumps like Jace and Entreat. Our Jace is better than theirs, although somewhat harder to protect. I can count a full 8 or 9 cards that I'd love to board in from his list against Shardless, I'm not sure why things like Spell Pierce were still there post-board. Also skeptical on how he navigated that game three against American Delver. I don't think there was any reason to run two Plows and a Top all into soft countermagic. Second is still a great finish though.

Michael Swailes was goaded into writing a tourney report by some of the Seattle Legacy regulars. He penned this very in-depth and thoughtful write up instead.

http://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comme...en_semifinals/

Imagine if that wily wizard wrote an entire report like that! Now you guys get to see the caliber of Control player we have to deal with in Seattle. It's scary!