Alright. I mean, I suppose his article was well written, but I feel like the majority of it is simply trying to justify to someone for not playing optimally. Also, I don't understand why he feels the need to lead off by calling my brief advice regarding the Shardless BUG matchup "wrong" followed by saying that he has virtually no experience against Shardless BUG.Originally Posted by Michael Swailes
So the game in question... guy plays a turn one Delver. I have two relevant cards in my hand plus a few turns worth of land drops. The chances are high that my opponent has a Daze or a Spell Pierce or both. Why would I be willing to throw away one of my only ways to interact? Let's compare the scenarios... and for reference.
Given my hand, I do nothing until turn three. At this point, I'm at 14. I cast Swords; he Spell Pierces; I pay; he Dazes. Alternatively, he could have led with Daze then Flusterstormed if he valued Pierce over the Flusterstorm. Either way, now I'm at 12 with 4 cards in hand (Brainstorm, Top, fetch, Clique) to his 6 cards which we don't know. We take another 3 and drop to 9 from Delver. At this point, the cat is well out of the bag for him; he has only one land so at worst we only have to consider Pierce/Flusterstorm + Daze, FoW, or REB.
On turn four (at 9 with 4 land and 4 cards in hand), we have a few choices. We can play Clique in his draw or combat step, which can get FoW'd or REB'd but plays around everything else (Clique during Draw plays around him drawing a land with double Daze while Clique during combat better guarantees that we actually tag the Delver this turn). We can play Top, which he can only FoW. We can play our fourth card (which is unknown, but if it's another Plow or an REB then he can only FoW or Flusterstorm + Daze it). And finally, we can Brainstorm and see what else we can draw (possibly playing the Top this turn as well, which gives him the option of Pierce + Dazing it).
Assuming our fourth card wasn't a Plow/REB, the play I like most is Clique during his draw. Clique gives us the best chance of stopping that Delver as soon as possible and FoW/REB isn't getting any easier to play around as the game progresses. As it turns out, he has the ability to Brainstorm, which will dig him into essentially nothing. He Dazes us and we pay to see a hand of Volcanic, Wasteland, Daze, SoFF, Flusterstorm, Meddling Mage, and TNN. We let him keep since the only reason he would have Dazed us is to put back a threat that can be cast off Volcanic (in this case it would have been Delver which is flipped by the second Wear//Tear).
Now we untap on turn five with 4 land in play, at 8 life, with 4 cards in hand (Brainstorm, Top, and 2 unknowns). We know his hand is exactly Wasteland, Daze, SoFF, Flusterstorm, MM, and TNN. Likely he will be able to play a threat when he untaps (most likely a Delver but there's a small possibly it's a Lavamancer). We are holding the two best cards in our deck, plus two more cards. At this point, we should be in full control of the game.
Now let's compare this to how the game actually plays out. It is turn five, we have just successfully vanquished that stubborn Delver. We are at 9 life, with four land in play, with 2 cards in hand (Plains and Flooded Strand). We are living completely off of the top of our deck. Our opponent still has a board of just Volcanic and a hand of Wasteland, SoFF, Daze, MM, and TNN. Are we actually that much better off after having "baited" the counters out of his hand?
In either case, he's about to draw and flip a Delver. In Michael's scenario, we will be able to see three more cards off the top of our deck before the Delver just kills us (luckily we end up topdecking an out). In my scenario, we will be able to see seven cards to deal with the Delver (more if we found a fetchland and not including the two additional unknowns in our hand). Hopefully this response is seen as insightful rather than angry, as it is not my intent to bash Michael and I'm not trying to play hindsight police. I'm simply explaining exactly how that particular game would have turned out if I had been playing it instead and why I still hold that as long as we have future land drops to make we should play around soft counters whenever possible.
Anger Detectors at Zero. Swailes is an old school poker player with a permanently etched poker face. I don't actually think I've ever seen him angry. You both offer insightful responses with their own merits. I think it speaks to the quality of player who picks up Miracles that the two of you can produce such detailed explanations for your differing views. I didn't intend to start "shit", necessarily, when I cross posted that link. But if I end up starting some intelligent discourse like this, then I'll just have to pat myself on the back for that one.
Elves Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/2EVsdw2
At least 3 miracle decks t8'd a ~300 person legacy tournament last night/this morning in Tokyo. Lists will probably be up today or tomorrow somewhere. I suspect the lists will be posted somewhere here or affiliated with the sites name: http://www.happymtg.com/kami_series/#legacy_kami
Edit- Think I found them: http://www.happymtg.com/coverage/21338/
When it comes to that page, google translate is apparently not running at peak efficiency.
Er, mind elaborating on this? What (on turn 1) suggests the Delver player will miss the next two land drops?
He said he didn't cast anything until turn three, in order to avoid soft counters. The delver player would have for certain played a second land if he had it by this point so that he could cast multiple spells per turn, but since he was still sitting on one land that implies is entire hand is spells.
If I'm understanding correctly, the reason he's waiting till turn 3 to do anything is to play around Daze/Pierce. Nothing suggests that the Delver player will miss land drops on turn 1, but that doesn't really pertain to why he's waiting till turn 3.
On a side note, I'm somewhat new to the deck and am curious about how important it is to flesh out the curve of this deck to support Counterbalance. Is it absolutely necessary? The reason being is that my deck is extremely light on three's and I'm not sure how much importance I need to place on having more 3 drops to make Counterbalance more effective.
not that important. Most slots in the various lists are fixed anyway, your freedom on cmc 2 and cmc 3 is somewhat limited. Most people have adopted Council's Judgement and still run at least 1 Clique. It would be a mistake for Not running at least 1 Clique. If you haven't tested Council, please do try it for a bit.
What is everyone's thoughts on misdirection? I have yet to see it in a list but I think it has quite a bit of potential.
You can 2-3 a hymn to Tourach player with it instead of 2-1 yourself.
Abrupt decay is no longer unstoppable but a 2-2 trade.
REB and pyroblast can be a 2-2 if they have the right cards in play.
It works just as well as a counterspell in a counter war.
Now we all know its not a replacement for force of will but I could see people running 1-2 in the 75 for these kinda things. I think it is worth trying out. At the moment I'm running the post Paris build from the article on eternal central until I get the hang of the deck.
Also does anyone have any good articles, matches, or videos that are worth watching to help me learn this deck? I'm playing on cockatrice but could use as much info I could get to improve.
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What you wrote is incorrect. Michael Swailes pretty much ran Lossett's build like couple weeks ago MD Misdirection.http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=69453
Lossett’s Miracles article
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...-Miracles.html
PV’s Miracles article (even though his build is considered weaker)
http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...ouse-miracles/
We had that discussion a couple of pages ago. The conclusion was, that misdirection is too situational and a cut between FOW und Misdirection is miserable because you sacrifice consistency. Countering a Liliana, JTMS, Vial, Infernal TuT, ETA, Show and Tell/ Sneakattack, etc. is way too important in the first game of a match.
Thanks for the tip! I see I was wrong to say no one plays MD but from the results I've seen recently I haven't seen it. Thanks for showing me those links. Ill take a look.
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Just to make sure you know, REB and Pyro are cast as one part of the card. This means that, if it was cast as counter target blue spell, it cannot be misdirected to destroy target blue permanent, and vice versa.
For those of you who run 2 Councils in the 75, I would encourage you guys to try 1 Council + 1 Personal Tutor. This experiment has been pretty nice so far. With a Top in play, converting Tutor into a Council/Terminus/Entreat is pretty flexible; and you can remove annoying opposing Planeswalker quicker, occasionally getting rid of annoying Enchantment/Artifact quicker.
How is it quicker? It will always be a turn slower and a card fewer than just drawing the Council's Judgment. If Personal Tutor were an Instant, it might be worth considering but it still wouldn't be a shoe-in. As a Sorcery, I don't think it's even worth thinking about.
Quicker as in, you'll be able to find whatever removal you need more frequently, cause it can serve as an extra copy of mass removal or targeted removal. Not in terms of speed.
Just lost against burn packing Guide, Grim, Eidolon and fkn Vexing Shusher. Man it sucked. How do you play/board against vs? If the game does not end fast they can just drop that and plain kill you...
You want to assemble your Top/Counterbalance combo ASAP. It really shuts them down. Hopefully, you have a StP or Terminus to deal with Shusher. It's also a good idea to fetch for basics so you don't get hit hard by Price of Progress. One card that really hurts burn is Energy Field for versions of Miracles that run it with Rest in Peace. It's a two mana answer to Burn because they don't have a way of putting your permanents (other than creatures) into the graveyard. If Burn becomes a bigger problem, I would recommend Energy Field, RIP, Helm of Obedience, and a couple Enlightened Tutor somewhere in the 75. It also helps greatly against graveyard strategies. Spell Pierce is another card that helps against Burn.
I see more than others do because I know where to look.
I like playing Chill in the sideboard against burn recently.
It slows them down a lot and makes them play into your pierces.
True strength lies in action. Let the weak react to me! -Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Been playtesting the 4 ponder build and dang is it fun. It feels more like a combo/lock deck using all the cantrips to dig for a counterbalance to stick. I am using the latest 4 ponder list with -1 snapcaster and +1 plains due to some bad play/weird interactions against rishidon port decks. I am in dire need of side board help and would be extremely grateful for any coments or tips. My board is the following:
3 Pyroblast
1 Council's Judgement
1 Disenchant
2 Flusterstorm
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Vendelion Clique
1 Kreanos, God of Storms
2 Rest in Peace
1 Izzet staticater/3rd RIP/ Pithing Needle/ Counterspell
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