I like the report, and I'd like to see a list.Originally Posted by The_Dingo
2 D&T matches is a rough start, but winnable. Thalia is an issue at times the best tools (I know of) to directly fight her are Swords to Plowshares, Oblivion Ring/Banishing Light & Karakas. ...and indirectly Suppression Field (vs. Port, Vial, Waste, Mom...) having access to those cards tuned the MU to slightly favorable IMHO.
My decklist:
61 cards maindeck
19 lands
1 Bayou
7 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Savannah
4 Serra's sanctum
4 windswept heath
5 Creatures
4 Argothian enchantress
1 Emrakul, the aeons torn
37 Spells
4 Enchantress' Presence
3 GSZ
2 Sterling grove
1 E tutor
2 RiP
3 Suppression Field
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant grass
2 Oblivion ring
2 Mirri's Guile
4 Wild growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Exploration
1 Sigil of the empty throne
1 Helm of obedience
15 cards SB
4 Leyline of sanctity
1 Humility
1 Enlightened tutor
1 gaddock teeg
1 sphere of safety
1 Oblivion ring
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Dread of night
1 engineered plague
1 stony silence
1 replenish
1 rest in peace
There was another enchantress player in the room, but I didn't really get a chance to talk. He came over during round nine to say hi, but my attention span was pretty short by that time and it was all I could do to finish the match.
Hi first time poster on the source!
When i built enchantress, i had some pretty serious budget concerns, so my list has some pretty weird choices( for example no fetches makes mirri's guile awkward,cut for sylvan library and suppresion field).
my list looks like this, sometimes it feels awesome, sometimes it feels like garbage, but i always feel like i'm just about to lose.
LANDS
9 forest
4 gemstone mine
4 city of brass
3 serra's sanctum
ENCHANTRESS
4 argothian enchantress
4 enchantress's presence
THE LOCK
2 energy field
3 solitary confinement
3 rest in piece
3 supression field
1 sphere of safety
4 elephant grass
THE ACCEL
4 utopia sprawl
4 wild growth
THE FIND
3 sterling grove
2 sylvan library
THE WIN
2 helm of obedience
1 words of war
THE SIDEBOARD
1 suppresion field
1 rest in peace
1 helm of obedience
2 oblivion ring
2 carpet of flowers /testing this slot
2 choke
3 in the eye of chaos
3 leyline of sanctity / cutting one and seeing how it goes
Playing this deck, the one thing i have learned is that because you're slower than everything else, you have to do something to gain an edge. Mine is to make everything else slower than me.
To that end my mainboard consists of several ways to make them bend over backwards to try to operate, then i just kill them when they tap out to pay for grass/sphere and only have a
soft counter. Then i board into the enchantress version of stax and make my opponent miserable ( have you seen how many brainstorms there are! geez) i have a lot of questions about
how this thing can operate better. Mulliganing is miserable, for example, even if you don't have to do it very often. I've been having mixed success, but 4 tournament <20 person each sample,
so grain of salt? btw if someone tells my how to decktag, i'll edit this post to include them.
The thing that I've learned about the deck is that the suppression fields and the elephant grasses individually do very little except in some isolated circumstances. It's when you have one of each in play that you really force your opponent to make tough decisions about developing their board by fetching and playing spells, or falling behind in order to get some combat damage in. Either way, they fall behind a little bit, and each turn our odds of establishing a full lock get better and better.
I know I said a page or 2 back that 4of Kruphix's Insight is a bad idea but I can't help but try and jam it, because my god this card is AWESOME. Unfortunately you can't just take the full set and slam it in, a few concessions have to be made.
At least one of your win conditions has to be an enchantment. Until we get a better one this defaults to Sigil of the Empty Throne, but that's really not so bad since it also shuts down aggro and wombo-combos with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
You need to trim some Enchantress effects. 16 (17 thanks to Sigil) cards that do actual nothing on their own seems silly, especially since 8 of them don't even get you anything immediately. The best cut is probably Green Sun's Zenith, but that means you can't have sideboard Gaddock Teeg. I was trying to figure out a way around this the other day when it hit me.
Kruphix's insight lets us run Spirit of the Labyrinth.
The decks that you would want it against (Sneak and Show, Elves, anything storm) need the card draw and manipulation more than we do. Granted going one a turn hurts but the game should still be winnable with Mirri's Guile and Insight to set up draws and rip through your deck. It may mean more reliance on Enlightened Tutor or Sterling Grove to actually win.
It can potentially be worth 0. You really can't plan around it, you just have to let it ride and hope you can play whatever shows up. Plus you can't chain enchantments into each other as well since it will only ever get you 3 cards. It also gives away information and potentially pitches your other win conditions to your own Rest in Peace. I'm currently running some number of Abundant Growth to hopefully fix this by seeing more cards. A lower curve and one less land might help as well.
I still need to do a ton of testing but I think it has potential. Will report back.
I'll be playing this at SCG Worcester tomorrow. Stay tuned for updates.
List?
I started out 4-0, beating Miracles, Merfolk, BUG, and Affinity before getting crushed on camera by Dan Jordan with a VERY strong Uwr Delver draw and proceeding to lose the next three to Imperial Painter, Reanimator, and Sneak and Show. This goes to confirm what we already know: Enchantress is strong against other fair decks and struggles against decks doing broken things. Here's the list:
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
3 Green Sun Zenith
3 Sterling Grove
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Rest in Peace
2 Exploration
2 Mirri's Guile
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Suppression Field
1 Banishing Light
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
6 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Savannah
2 Plains
2 Serra's Sanctum
1 Taiga
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
SB:
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Choke
2 Stony Silence
1 Blood Moon
1 Humility
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Runed Halo
1 Sylvan Library
1 Replenish
1 Aura of Silence
The sideboard is supposed to have 4 Leyline of Sanctity in place of the randoms (Halo, Aura, Teeg, and Library) but I was unable to get the set I needed today so I made do without. It was never relevant in any matchup.
I just saw this. Decent run, and way to bring Enchantress to a big event!
For what it is worth we all make out choices and put out the list we feel are the best and see how it goes. However, I wanted to say that the list found below does have some decent game against the unfair match-ups you listed.
vs. Painter:
-Stony
-Swords
-Banishing light
-Suppression Field
Get you there pretty favorably. I do not board in Leyline usually. 75/25
vs. Reanimator
-3 RIP
-3 Swords
-Banishing light
-Suppression Field
Gives you a real chance, but if they have the nutz they got it. 40/60
vs. Show
-Suppression Field
-Helm
-Banishing light
-Oring
-Harmonic
-Emrakul
They are severely slowed by sup. field, and in desperation may show and tell into a ring/light/ emrakul/ or helm
50 /50
I don't think the Insight's are worth it the more I play with them. the deck would likely be better cutting them and shifting more hate main, and getting a good bullet answer to BG decks with Golgari Charm in the board as that is likely the worst mu these days.
What about eidolon of blossom here??? Has it been discussed here?
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Hi,
Just throwing some ideas concerning countering Golgari Charm effects:
- Would Lumithread Field be worth it?
- Or Parapet, that could save your creatures as an Instant?
- Spidersilk Armor is on a better color, but costs 1 more.
- There is also Leyline of Vitality, but as a 1-of it would not be reliable cast as free, and it's normal cost is too high...
I've been thinking about this over the last couple days. at first I thought it might be a solution, but in all reality it's just not good enough. In the end we are probably better off just out numbering their hate.
Some ways to do this is to:
- Re-adopt the Sterling Grove Strat. in RIP / Helm Enchantress
-Seriously Explore Eidolon of Blossoms
* Can not be Decayed
-Look at a Replenish Strat. out of the board.
Of these I think I will test (1) Eidolon of Blossoms in the Kruphix's Insight slot, and possibly a single replenish in the board cutting Harmonic Sliver.
This will help overload discard and target removal, but still play into Lillianna, and Toxic Deluge. In the end the MU is still pretty bad, but at least a post board strat of -3 RIP / - 1 Helm / +3-4 Leyline of Sanctity / + 1 Replenish gives us a real shot. ...and a very good shot if we start with a decent Leyline hand post board.
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's
4 Wild Growth
4 utopia Sprawl
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest In Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Emrakul
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Banishing Light
3 Suppression Field
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass
4 Serra's Sanctum
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
11 Forest
Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Banishing Light
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Replenish
Yeah, I really, REALLY wanted to believe, but the card just doesn't do what you want most of the time. It's good when you want to draw enchantments.
So it's good when you already have an enchantress.
So it's pretty winmore even when it's good.
For a little, but it was generally thought to be too much damn mana. And sucks against counterspells. But who knows, maybe flower girl deserves another chance.
I started running Dryad Arbor as the 21st land (again) and it's been working pretty well. I havn't been drawing it that much and being able to get an emergency blocker/mana source has been huge. Actually getting hit by Wasteland sucks. Speaking of GSZ, is there any reason to not run Reclamation Sage over Harmonic Sliver once M15 is in?
I took out Insights and haven't looked back. It's nice when you're in a 1-2 Enchantress Confinement lock though and need to grab fuel.
Shoutouts to all the Enchantress players at GP PDX this weekend grinding side events, there were 3 of us there. 1 traditional, 1 unlife and one more combo heavy build. Unfortunately I couldn't go out and have an Enchanted Evening getting drunk because my family wanted me to work on their roof in the morning but it was awesome meeting you all and sharing builds/swapping strats.
Discussed a few things, one of the things that everyone agreed with to some degree is that 4 Serra's Sanctum can be/is a bit much. I can confirm 2/3 of us were running 3. I messed around with Skybind for fun on the side for laughs and it did a little work in casual matches but it's no Words of Wind because of the steep CMC and 2W req. It's an interesting idea though. It's such a shame that this block was so deeply underwhelming for this deck: Every other deck in the format has been gaining tools that outpace what Enchantress is gaining, especially in the previous block.
It's also noteworthy that most of my wins came from Progenitus and Banefire. I only got to Helm someone once this weekend, and the other time was in desperation for a chump blocker :( I think I had one or two wins off Emrakul, the Aeons Torn as well. I really can't see myself going back to running any nonbasics other than 4 Windswept Heath and 3 Serra's Sanctum at this point. Sprawl and CoF did SO much work, these cards really help, especially when I decided to board in Banefire. I want to run Choke in addition to CoFs but I'm not sure what I'm gonna cut. As another side note, I do think that Swords to Plowshares in the board is correct, my biggest losses were to Aggro Loam, Maverick and Lands decks where I simply didn't have the Instant speed interaction to take out Marit Lage. Dark Maverick is just ridiculously hard after RtR hit the shelves. I'm starting to think that the Sterling Grove gameplan is where this deck is headed because of Golgari Charm and Abrupt Decay running rampant.
Been meaning to post for the last week. I went with a few friends to the SCG open in Somerset and had a blast. Didn't place, but I still felt pretty good about my performance.
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Replenish
3 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Serra's Sanctum
9 Forest
Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Replenish
2 Banishing Light
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Humility
4 Leyline of Sanctity
I made a few changes since the last time, namely putting Solitary Confinement back in and taking out Kruphix's Insight. Went 6-4 overall, losing to Storm, High Tide (sup Feline), and 2 BUG Delver decks.
Overall impressions:
An early Suppression Field buys you so much time. Even late game it can tip the scales a bit.
I never actually wanted Reclamation Sage. It's a neat card but there was never a moment where I wanted it and wasn't already dead.
Eidolon of Blossoms is so worth it. Cantripping off Zenith was surprisingly relevant all day.
Humility is downright hilarious and super powerful. I only got to resolve it once and I still lost, but it bought me about 5 turns.
I like the 1-of Dryad Arbor a lot, even though it was only relevant in 2 or 3 games.
Helm of Obedience was the worst of the wincons that day, but Rest in Peace is so stupidly powerful that I feel like I have to run it. Probably cutting it anyway.
Death and Taxes is terrifying and I won off the die roll. We had lethal on the same turn every game.
I've been having a lot more trouble with BGx decks since cutting Kruphix's Insight, mainly because I rush enchantresses into removal without drawing enough cards. Whether that's an argument for running Insight or me just needing to git gud is up for debate.
The mainboard Replenish was mostly pointless. Half the time I stared at it wishing it was anything else.
Waaa 4 GSZ? Is it so good?
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4 GSZ vastly increases the number of keepable hands . 12 vs 8 Enchantresses? I'll take it anyday. Water has other 1 of targets as well. No reason for there not to be 4. If you don't think 4 is correct then what would you suggest otherwise and why?
+ GSZ is only good if it allows a T2 Echantress (either with T1 mana accel into GSZ x = 2 or GSZ into Dryad Arbor into Enchantress Presence).
- Later it's pretty much dead i.m.o., sometimes even a liability.
- The deck needs more speed to compete. T3 GSZ into Enchantress is waaayyyy to slow.
Another option is running Chrome Mox, to speed up the deck, allowing an Enchantress ahead of the curve. Imagine starting t2 with 2 mana and an Agrothian Enchantress in play!
I like the list taking into consideration your adjustments. When I play (which has been few and far between as of late) I play the list a few posts up which is very similar. Looks like the parings were not favorable, but they are not auto-losses as well. As stated above the BUG decks are the worst MU's for the current build what do you feel would best help it. Maybe a second Eidolon of Blossoms? It's out of Decay range and can not be swept in -1/-1 mode of charm... Allowing your GSZ's to get busy on Endilons or Argothian whichever seems to be more game appropriate at the time.
You said Helm was the worst win. Which was best, Emrakul or Sigil?
To answer the GSZ question. It is the best back-up to Pressence and Argothian out there and legitimizes the Hatebare post board combo plan. The shuffles (with Guile) and the ability to shuffle them in to draw are also very relevant when your not running Words of War or Wind to not draw out.
Well I wrote a whole bunch but it got lost to poor connection. The moral of the story was, after checking my notes I realized that I'm a liar.
Sigil of the Empty Throne: 2 wins (3 if you count a game where I went double-digit angels > Emrakul), 2 games where 4/4 blockers were relevant
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn: cast 5 games, won 5 games
Helm of Obediance: 5 exiled libraries, 1 awkward game where Gaddock Teeg wouldn't let me win.
Eidolon number 2 might be a good addition. I actually hadn't even considered that until right now. I was chatting with one guy who was running it the day before with Ground Seal over RIP and Helm of Obedience, and one of the guys I went with saw someone in the 2-0 bracket running Near-Death Experience of all things. Sadly I didn't get to talk to him and find out what the hell was going on. Honestly I may just be prejudice against Helm of Obediance because all it does is win you random games (that's one hell of a sentence). Also cuz I really want Kruphix's Insight to work but the card just can't exist in a deck with RIP and Green Sun's Zenith. It's a fool's errand but I want to believe.
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