Miracle Control

[Lowell]

Judging the Judgment.

Ok, it's been a while since I promised you to give all of you my my opinion on Council's Judgement. Here we go, then.

Versatility is its strength!

The strength of Councils Judgement does not lie in what it does - it lies in what it can do, across a variety of MUs, situations and so on. There are cards to our disposal that to their job in a superior way. But we didn't have access to a card that can get rid of literally every nonland permanent, circumventing any kind of protection or tricks. That's an upgrade for sure. Whenever I talked about Miracles vs Esper I came back and tell everybody how superior Snapcaster Mage was in Esperstoneblade, being a sure 4of due to the plethory of versatile cards he could flashback. I soon became a disciple of Snapcaster in Miracles too, but ever since this card has entered the light of day it seems to be rather obvious that Snapcaster is a constant part of Miracles, giving it as much versatility as it had in good old Esper.
But Judgements versatility has another aspect to it that is pretty essential. Due to its potential to deal with literally everything you have to put the first copy of this card in your mainboard, not in your sideboard. I've been playing Counterspell in my SB ever since GP Paris and I am still under the assumption that this is the correct way to go - but before I put the 3rd Counterspell in the SB, I've had two of them in the mainboard, reaching the cards threshold of mainboarded copies. Same thing goes for Councils Judgement - leading to the next point:

How many Judgements can one pass?

It's a tricky question, to be honest - and it does depend on the build. Being harder to cast then most spells in our deck puts up limitations to this card, that's for sure. It should be pretty obvious that 4 is too much, whereas three seems pretty painful at best. I think the maximum amount of Judgements you should be having in your deck distributes as follows:
4 Ponder - build: 1-2 Judgements in your 75, at least 1 mainboard.
Other builds: 1-3 Judgements in your 75, at least 1 mainboard.

Cantrip-heavy builds have traditionally been shaving on individual copies of a card to make up for the increased consistency - so I am under the assumption that 2 is the perfect threshold for this card, whereas other variants can go up to three, but 2 should be the thresholded mark for mainboardable Judgements across the whole field.

Whats the pawn sacrifice?

One may not simply add cards to the deck without cutting some of them, as 61 cards is no option. (has never been) So what can different lists cut in order to support this spell? Should any of this lists be built in a bad way you can still cut inferior cards, should you still play them - I am referring to cards like RIP/E-Tutor/D-Sphere or whatever. Ya know, bad cards.

But what can you cut when you play a good implementation of Miracles? Two kinds of things: a) versatile ones and b) specific ones. Why is that? Well, if your list has cards that are designed to deal with a plethora of different threats it might be a good idea to switch to a card that actually deals with most of them in a superior way. I am talking about cutting cards like:

Spell Pierce
Vendilion Clique
Counterspell

Those cards aren't exactly the same, but share big parts of their area of application. They are all meant to deal with a lot of different things. While Spell Pierce excels in the early game it's Counterspells time to shine later while clique stays a powerful threat in many matchups (but not enough of them - that's why I still don't mainbeck Clique) - Judgement can easily deal with most of those permanents, with the upside of being a better draw once those permanents have entered the battlefield already.

You could also cards that are in your mainboard to deal with very specific threats. I am talking about those cards, among others:

Disenchant and Wear//Tear
Supreme Verdict
Engineered Explosives (MB)
Pithing Needle
...

Those cards had their right to be in the mainboard for some lists, in some metagames - but I think they have ceased to do so - as Councils Judgement does this job in a clearly superior way. Pretty easy cut, if you should be playing those cards.

Repositioning in a dance called metagame.

So what do I think about the impact that Judgement will have on the current metagame and our position within it? Well - simply put - this card is a clear buff for Miracles, even though other archetypes can profit from it aswell. Versatile cards that impact already resolved threats has always been a problem of UWR - it now seems to be solved, in one way or another. It will make MUs that have been close, traditionally, better. I am mostly thinking of the BG/x archetype. It's been a race to Entreat the Angels for 9 out of 10 games. With Judgement I see these MUs improving by a lot, due to the ability to delay the kind of inevtiable Liliana long enough to massacre them with an army of flashy angels.

It'll also improve the MUs against Random, admittingly though Miracles has been having the best MU against Random from most of the tier1-decks, regardlessly.

Even though it doesn't help with traditionally tough MUs like SnT and DnT it offers interesting angles of attack to this very two MUs, namely being able to get rid of Vial+SoFaI mainboard (once you've survived the mana-screw) and nuking Sneak Attack itself, if they tap out to cast it. Not really making it better - but interesting angles, nontheless.

I think this card will make Ponder an even better card, supplementing my claim that 2 Ponder is the bare minimum, with 4 being my personal (!) optimum. Being able to dig for a card that deals with everything is about as good as it can get.

Judgements affects on my list.

Based on my latest list I will go ahead and cut my (altered) Spell Pierces. (You know how much it hurts to cut recently acquired altered cards?) Both of them, despite the fact that I will be only adding a single Councils Judgement to the mainboard. As the second card that will be cut I have decided to cut the recently added Pithing Needle in favor of the Councils Judgement. I don't think that I have to explain why I cut those two cards - just see what I wrote above about the possible cuts.

But what do I do with the one last slot in the mainboard that once was property of Spell Pierce? Playing a miser Spell Pierce doesn't sound too good - so it'll be something different. It won't be a 2nd/3rd Councils Judgement due to the color requirements and the low count of disruptive blue cards for the Combo/Control-MUs. So it has to be something blue, more or less disrupting/countering. I have been thinking about the following cards:

3rd Counterspell (moving the sideboarded one to the mainboard)
Spell Snare
Vendilion Clique
Counterbalance
Red Elemental Blast

Admittingly, I am not completly sure that this last slot is as correct as the rest of my list is, at least to me. I stand behind pretty much every single slot - with the exception of this very 60th mainboarded card. I ultimately decided in favor of Counterbalance due to the good position in the current metagame that this card has right now. Counterbalance is very good against a plethora of strategies right now, ranging from Elves over Delver to Storm and even Sneak and Show - due to this list having 3 cc3 and 3 cc4, making it a possibility to lock them out in the preboarded games.

As said, I am not too sure on this one and I would be happy to receive some opinions on this one, even though I've asked many people I trust in already. But there is no such thing as too many opinions.

Other than that, here it is - my Judgemental Miracles-list.

3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
4 Island
2 Plains

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Counterspell
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Council's Judgement

3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Counterspell
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Entreat the Angels
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Council's Judgement


Greetings

Hi, new miracles player here:)

For the decklist, I just have a few questions.

1)Despite running 4 ponders now, is running 21 lands as a control deck a little low in your opinion?

2)Most older decklists run 2 snapcasters and 2 cliques, do you feel the absence of cliques in game 1 affect any of your matches? Perhaps even in the mirror?

3)Whats your gameplan against RUG delver?

Awesome job, keep on jamming miracles! Thanks.

[Einherjer]

Hey, you might want to read this:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/there-...e-in-miracles/
and adding Juudging the Judgment to it will lead to my most recent list. Plus my new article will include a section about "building your own version of Miracles(the good versions, ofc)"
Considering RUG, you will find a short mention about it here, more to come in my new article, once again :D
http://www.eternalcentral.com/there-...-sideboarding/

Greetings

[Davek]

Even if i'm a convinced 12-post player, i had to log-in to say how much i appreciate this thread, it's really full of insights. Great job to everyone!
I've also had the pleasure to chat on cockatrice with Einherjer a couple of months ago... your articles are awesome, they almost make me wish to start playing Miracles (almost).
And please, please guys, keep stomping storm hard so that i can keep beating you XD

[YamiJoey]

Even if i'm a convinced 12-post player, i had to log-in to say how much i appreciate this thread, it's really full of insights. Great job to everyone!
I've also had the pleasure to chat on cockatrice with Einherjer a couple of months ago... your articles are awesome, they almost make me wish to start playing Miracles (almost).
And please, please guys, keep stomping storm hard so that i can keep beating you XD

Don't worry, it you ever become popular I'll start playing Enlightened Tutor again.

[TheArchitect]

Congratulations to Tomáš Vlček!

I have a question for him, or Einherjer, or anyone on that build. I noticed Tomáš boarded in Clique in every single matchup, and I play 2 MD cliques and there are very few matchups where I board them out. Like maybe 5% of my MU, if that, I board them out. Why not keep them MD? The only thing I can think of is because opponents have more removal in their deck G1, but even that does not seem like reason enough. Often times we have CB out, or all cliques needs to do is bait/fateseal some countermagic to clear room for a Jace/Entreat.

[Einherjer]

That's the problem that comes along with playing four Ponder. You are not able to include neat and doubtlessly useful cards like Vendilion Clique. It just doesn't work. The MB is trimmed to do best what its designed for, sadly there is no space for more Cliques. If I had additional space I'd add a 4th Snapcaster and a 4th Jace over the Vendilion Clique though, as I don't feel it's really necessary in the first game, but shines vs the ones where it comes in, regardlessly.

Greetings

[twndomn]

I have a question for him, or Einherjer, or anyone on that build. I noticed Tomáš boarded in Clique in every single matchup, and I play 2 MD cliques and there are very few matchups where I board them out. Like maybe 5% of my MU, if that, I board them out. Why not keep them MD?

Agree. Lossett values Clique over Snapcaster, while Ein thinks the opposite. GUTBROD, JOHANNES from BoM 2014 looks the most balanced to me:http://www.bazaar-of-moxen.com/en/ba...vent,c147.html

[Dzra]

Agree. Lossett values Clique over Snapcaster, while Ein thinks the opposite. GUTBROD, JOHANNES from BoM 2014 looks the most balanced to me:http://www.bazaar-of-moxen.com/en/ba...vent,c147.html

Yeah, I'm starting to think that some combination of Ponders and Legends might be correct. I don't think they need to be exclusive.

[Einherjer]

Yeah, I'm starting to think that some combination of Ponders and Legends might be correct. I don't think they need to be exclusive.

But you'd be forced to either play legends without Karakas or to play too many lands. It's not that easy. :)

Greetings

[Dzra]

Maybe not, but I haven't been a big fan of cutting lands for Ponders anyways (in this deck at least). Cutting too many lands just means that you're going to be searching for lands with the Ponders anyways. Even with Ponder, I think 22-23 land is probably ideal.

[Mackan]

I actually tried temporal mastery. I played it in a version with 4 entreats and had more of a stompy-approach with cb in the board (due to the cmc of all the miracles). It was nice vs fair decks but durdled to much. It's not a recommended approach but if you do run TM I suggest Portent over Ponder.

[Dzra]

I've actually given Portent some thought too. It is definitely frustrating to shuffle off Ponder then immediately draw a Miracle. Still, I suppose that more often than not, you'd rather have a card now than draw a Top or a Counterbalance during someone's upkeep.

[Einherjer]

Maybe not, but I haven't been a big fan of cutting lands for Ponders anyways (in this deck at least). Cutting too many lands just means that you're going to be searching for lands with the Ponders anyways. Even with Ponder, I think 22-23 land is probably ideal.

Ah you aren't talking about the whole playset of Ponder? I am sorry. You could easily build a version with 22+ lands and two Ponder plus legendary creatures, but I figured 2 Ponder where somewhat of a minimum already, nevermind. But it's pretty hard to do it with the playset of Ponder.

But try it out and let me know what you ended up with!

Greetings

EDIT: Just handed in a 8500 word article about Miracles at SCG. :O

[Dzra]

Ah you aren't talking about the whole playset of Ponder? I am sorry. You could easily build a version with 22+ lands and two Ponder plus legendary creatures, but I figured 2 Ponder where somewhat of a minimum already, nevermind. But it's pretty hard to do it with the playset of Ponder.

But try it out and let me know what you ended up with!

I'm going to test some with a 23-land, 3-Ponder list and see how that goes.

EDIT: Just handed in a 8500 word article about Miracles at SCG. :O

Good luck! Can't wait to read it.

[twndomn]

Yeah, I'm starting to think that some combination of Ponders and Legends might be correct. I don't think they need to be exclusive.

well..., that's not exactly true. If your name is Reid Duke, you can run zero ponder and Legends for sb only.

[Mackan]

There is allways a strain in deckbuilding between cardquality and cardadvantage, in this case Ponder vs Legends. Both requires precious mana and you can't really discuss them in a "vacuum". The important thing when you compare legends and ponders is not the legends or the ponders, it's the rest of the cards in your deck, and more importantly your opponent's cards. Every mana spent on a ponder is a mana spent on the opportunity-cost in representing an answer. Legends costs more but the mana is spent differently. If your playstyle is Ponder, cb, snapcaster+ponder then fine, this version is for you. If you rather play draw-go and make a vendilion clique turn 3 then fine, this version is for you. None of the versions are strictly better and I can see arguments for boths sides, which is why I personaly run 2 Ponder and 2 cliques main. I miss out on some filtering and I miss out on some advantage but I will never be as punished in tempo as versions running more of each. The less I can be "punished" the more stable the deck is and the longer the games go, which is good news for the control deck. Having more Ponders either requires more cheap answers to keep up with your opponent or more bombs (like cb) to break even on tempo. Philipp's Council's Judgment in main is a very elegant solution for the times when you are forced to ponder and tap out at the wrong time but I wouldn't run it in a list with less than 4 Ponders.
So, either you represent the answer or you dig for it. I think the whole idea to run a lot of filtering in a control deck like Miracles (which is historically not that common and not something I really like) is because G1 we have sooo many bad cards against everything. Both Clique and Ponder (and Snapcaster Mage) solves this somewhat (I think I target myself G1 with clique 90% of the time). It's up to you, and the rest of your deck, to decide which is better. Value allways requires setup and mana and between Ponder, Predict, Snapcaster mage and Legends there is a lot of options!

[ghost_tmd]

What about ur delver MU? how do you sideboard? Any thoughs?

[TheArchitect]

I've been very happy with my 22lands, 2 ponder, 2 clique, 2 snap, 2 pierce, 3 CB, 3 jace list. I've tested with variations of all those numbers and still find this set up optimal. I have not had as much mainstream success to prove my claims as others like Philip or Joe, but I honestly think it is the best set up. It gives you the most consistency, while still keeping in powerful and versatile cards like clique and snap.

[mike1987]

I've been very happy with my 22lands, 2 ponder, 2 clique, 2 snap, 2 pierce, 3 CB, 3 jace list. I've tested with variations of all those numbers and still find this set up optimal. I have not had as much mainstream success to prove my claims as others like Philip or Joe, but I honestly think it is the best set up. It gives you the most consistency, while still keeping in powerful and versatile cards like clique and snap.

I have been playing this version as well, though I have cut a pierce for Council's judgement to answer any problematic permanents. There are a lot of control and combo in my meta, hence I feel the MD cliques helps a lot.

[Cipher]

Ah you aren't talking about the whole playset of Ponder? I am sorry. You could easily build a version with 22+ lands and two Ponder plus legendary creatures, but I figured 2 Ponder where somewhat of a minimum already, nevermind. But it's pretty hard to do it with the playset of Ponder.

Hopefully I get a chance to try out a 4x Ponder list, but I did notice in the writeup from the guy on eternalcentral that every match against Storm he lost at least 1 game when he tapped out for Ponder and they just went for it, knowing he could only have Force. I think this is one of those things that just needs to be hashed out over time. With people trying both versions and the deck being the best in Legacy it shouldn't take too long.