[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

[HammafistRoob]

Reanimator and TES are unwinnable if they open god hands, sometimes that just happens. Don't be afraid to throw a Pierce or REB at their Brainstorms, they tend to use them as a crutch moreso than other decks. Vortex is great against certain builds of Miracle like the creatureless builds, but against the Lossett builds it can be pretty bad sometimes. I've heard of people boarding out some number of Wastelands here since it's really hard to get good value out of them against good players, and it increases your live draws in the mid-late game. I haven't personally tried this yet but I do like the idea of it, it obviously depends on their build a lot since their manabases tend to vary in the Karakas and Mystic Gate region. Shardless is a pretty even matchup where I would say Mongoose is MVP if you can't tempo them out with delver backed up by soft counters. It might be worth it to keep some number of Forces in here since they have so many cards that we just die to if they resolve (lily, jace, ancestral). I think it might be a good move to change the TNN in the main to a Vendilion Clique. It's better against all these decks except Shardless.

Good luck, bring that A game sir Dr. Doctor sir.

[ShiftyKapree]

My current sb:
1 VClique
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Spell pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
2 Rough/Tumble
3 Submerge
3 REB
That's my current sideboard and I never had a problem with miracles I cut - 4 lightning Bolt - 2 Forked bolt bring in 3 REB Vclique Spell Pierce and Krosan Grip. I was play testing against shardless bug last night and was doing fairly well, I learned to save your submerge for DRS if you can't bolt him. I feel extremely confident and comfortable with my current sideboard in the meta without needles. The deck is not a pick up and play deck. It is a high skill intensive deck with many not so easy decisions to be made when playing, especially in games 2 and 3. Git probe to me feels like a win more card and I no longer play it. Honestly if you pay 6 burn spells md DRS should not be a problem. The deck has longevity in legacy and proves time and time again that it has a staying power. Last note watch for BUG decks playing chill now in the sideboard as or for any deck for that matter, now that burn is on the rise so will that. Keep your eyes open.

[Dr Brian Pepper]

My current sb:
1 VClique
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Spell pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
2 Rough/Tumble
3 Submerge
3 REB
That's my current sideboard and I never had a problem with miracles I cut - 4 lightning Bolt - 2 Forked bolt bring in 3 REB Vclique Spell Pierce and Krosan Grip. I was play testing against shardless bug last night and was doing fairly well, I learned to save your submerge for DRS if you can't bolt him. I feel extremely confident and comfortable with my current sideboard in the meta without needles. The deck is not a pick up and play deck. It is a high skill intensive deck with many not so easy decisions to be made when playing, especially in games 2 and 3. Git probe to me feels like a win more card and I no longer play it. Honestly if you pay 6 burn spells md DRS should not be a problem. The deck has longevity in legacy and proves time and time again that it has a staying power. Last note watch for BUG decks playing chill now in the sideboard as or for any deck for that matter, now that burn is on the rise so will that. Keep your eyes open.

personally, I never cut the bolts in the match up, usually my dudes do about 10-12, and they fetch 3-4 times, leaving blots just lethal cards.

[rlesko]

Is Sulfuric Vortex versatile enough to warrant a spot in the SB? Its good against miracles obviously, and decent against batterskull I guess? but what else...? I'm not sure if its versatile enough.

[KobeBryan]

I was playing with my friend on cockatrice. 15 matches, multiple games post board and multiple games preboard.

I was on RUG, 54 + snare, + pierce, + forked bolt.

He was on TA

I only won 1 game out of 30 games. The only time I got ahead of him was a stifle waste strategy which actually worked. Other than that, he was drawing better and stabilized much better even after early disruption.

I tried playing a more control way, then a more aggressive way, but the results are the same. We even let each other take back misplays, but he just outdrew me

[HammafistRoob]

Is Sulfuric Vortex versatile enough to warrant a spot in the SB? Its good against miracles obviously, and decent against batterskull I guess? but what else...? I'm not sure if its versatile enough.

Sylvan Library

Kobe, I have no idea how that is even possible honestly. Bolts get aimed at Delver and Shaman, while Snare and Force take care of Goyf or Liliana. How long have you been playing RUG and how are you sideboarding? Maybe we can help you out if you give us more information about how you're playing the matchup.

[KobeBryan]

Sylvan Library

Kobe, I have no idea how that is even possible honestly. Bolts get aimed at Delver and Shaman, while Snare and Force take care of Goyf or Liliana. How long have you been playing RUG and how are you sideboarding? Maybe we can help you out if you give us more information about how you're playing the matchup.

boarding

2 submerge, 2 REB, out 4 FOW.

I dont even know how that is possible. I tried every possible way of play style. My opponent on cockatrice is someone I playtest quite a bit with too. we let each other take moves back to optimize our plays

I would bolt a delver, or shaman. The goyfs usually stick around and make a stall for ground wars, unless i can chump block a goyf and bolt it thereafter a block with mongoose. if the stall goes on, he usually wins because his removal suites are much better than mine.

[Contract Killer]

boarding

2 submerge, 2 REB, out 4 FOW.

I dont even know how that is possible. I tried every possible way of play style. My opponent on cockatrice is someone I playtest quite a bit with too. we let each other take moves back to optimize our plays

I would bolt a delver, or shaman. The goyfs usually stick around and make a stall for ground wars, unless i can chump block a goyf and bolt it thereafter a block with mongoose. if the stall goes on, he usually wins because his removal suites are much better than mine.

It's a bad match up. I can usually go somewhere in the 40 - 45% range, but its still favored for them like 60%. They can kill our goyfs much easier deathrite makes mana denial harder unless you can remove it asap. I'm not saying the match up is horrible but don't be surprised if you lose it.

[JosephK]

For a meta full of bug tempo, i would recommend changing the threat package and pack ooze + grim + tnn in, as a top32 list did at GP Paris. Something like this :

2 tnn
3 tarmogoyf
2 ooze
2 grim
4 delver

and 19 lands.

Or get 4 submerge in your sb :)

[Contract Killer]

For a meta full of bug tempo, i would recommend changing the threat package and pack ooze + grim + tnn in, as a top32 list did at GP Paris. Something like this :

2 tnn
3 tarmogoyf
2 ooze
2 grim
4 delver

and 19 lands.

Or get 4 submerge in your sb :)

Personally I'm not a fan of that list (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=7770&f=LE). It should be noted though that if you do go that route shave a stifle and daze because you're going for more of a long game where both of those will lose value. In addition add in a taiga as a fourth green source for scooze. I mean I could see something like core 52 with 2 TNNs and shaving the 4th stifle for a basic island. TNN would definitely help in the bug match up and any other fair match up for that matter. I'm still not on board with this though because it makes our combo match ups so much worse.

[ShiftyKapree]

boarding

2 submerge, 2 REB, out 4 FOW.

I dont even know how that is possible. I tried every possible way of play style. My opponent on cockatrice is someone I playtest quite a bit with too. we let each other take moves back to optimize our plays

I would bolt a delver, or shaman. The goyfs usually stick around and make a stall for ground wars, unless i can chump block a goyf and bolt it thereafter a block with mongoose. if the stall goes on, he usually wins because his removal suites are much better than mine.

You need that 3rd Submerge, that card wins games singlehandedly, then depending on if I see TNN or not I board in 1 REB or Vclique or a Spell Pierce. The match-up does take practice to playout the situations you are faced with. If you play 3 submerge you should be fine if you take DRS off the board. And you are correct with boarding out FOW.

[kyreii]

Hi all! This is my first time posting here. I read through the past few pages before a local Legacy tournament and decided to run 2 pithing needle main. Here's the list I ran:

Lands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

4 Delver
4 Goyf
4 Mongoose

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Stifle
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Pithing Needle
1 Forked Bolt
2 Spell Pierce

SB
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Submerge
2 Rough/Tumble
1 Forked Bolt
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Spell Pierce
1 REB
1 Pyroblast
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Zuran Orb (for the rising number of budget burn players running Eidolon)

1st Match: Elves 2-1
Game 1: Drew mostly blue cards and was overrun by grindy little green men. He was running 3 Gitaxian Probes main which allowed him to play around my counterspells.

SB +2 Rough/Tumble, +1 Forked Bolt, +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 Clique
-1 Nimble Mongoose, -2 Daze, -1 FoW, -1 Gitaxian Probe

Game 2: Locked down with Grafdigger's Cage and Needle on Wirewood Symbiote, which allowed Forked Bolt to do some damage.

SB +1 FoW, -1 Probe, -2 Stifle, +2 Submerge

Game 3: I remember this game going long, with Tarmogoyf and Delver teaming up to kill a Ruric Thar. I was able to draw both Forked Bolts and 2 lightning bolts to manage his board and seal the win.

2nd Match: Stoneblade Thopter 2-0

Game 1: Wastelands and stifles fly around until I leave him stuck on one land. He is unable to cast any more spells and my creatures go in for the kill.
I didn't see enough of his deck, but an early probe revealed a Supreme Verdict so I thought he was on Miracles.

SB +1 Pyro, +1 REB, +1 Spell Pierce -1 Forked Bolt, -1 Lightning Bolt, -1 Daze

Game 2: An early Stoneforge Mystic gets dazed. Delver and Lightning bolts finish the game quickly.

After the game, I talked to him to find out what he was running.

3rd Match: Stax 2-0

Game 1: I keep a hand with Force of Will. He opens with Ancient Tomb into Chalice for one, which meets my Force of Will. He then plays Wasteland and casts Crucible of Worlds. I play Pithing Needle naming Wasteland. He drops another wasteland and casts Bottled Cloister. I end up riding two tarmogoyfs while my counters and bolts keep his side of the board clear of any action.

SB: +1 Jace, +1 Grudge, +1 Revelry, +1 Clique, -1 Mongoose, -1 Forked Bolt, -1 Probe, -1 Daze

Game 2: He manages to ramp mana out quickly and casts Wurmcoil Engine on turn three using Cavern of Souls. I take two hits to the face while desperately digging for answers. I cast Jace, bounce his wurmcoil and pass the turn. My delver flips and swings and I bolt a Lodestone Golem. Jace Brainstorms and bounces Wurmcoil when it goes down again. At this point, he is at forty life from Glimmerposts and Vesuvas. I dig up destructive revelry while the wurmcoil attacks. I topdeck a mongoose and sacrifice a delver to get rid of both tokens. He puts down a Ratchet Bomb to try and hit Jace, but a Pithing Needle puts a stop to that plan. I manage to stabilize and use Jace to finish the game.

4th Match: Win and in vs. Shardless Bug 2-0

Game 1: Stifle with Daze backup is followed by two delvers and a Wasteland. His Deathrite Shaman eats a Forked Bolt while our Goyf gridlock is solved by a lightning bolt.

SB: +1 Forked Bolt, +1 Clique, -1 Mongoose, -1 Probe

Game 2: He keeps a two-land hand which eats a Wasteland. I blindly name Verdant Catacombs with Pithing Needle. He topdecks Verdant Catacombs and puts it into play. A delver backed by a lightning bolt finishes the game.

I intentionally draw my final two matches since I was a lock for top8. In the quarterfinals, I lose, 0-2 against Esper Stoneblade.

My sideboarding felt very suboptimal and I was uncertain about the number of probes I was running, but the Pithing Needles were good all day. I definitely see myself running 2-3 between the main and the sideboard in the near future. :)

[Contract Killer]

Hi all! This is my first time posting here. I read through the past few pages before a local Legacy tournament and decided to run 2 pithing needle main. Here's the list I ran:

Lands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

4 Delver
4 Goyf
4 Mongoose

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Stifle
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Pithing Needle
1 Forked Bolt
2 Spell Pierce

SB
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Submerge
2 Rough/Tumble
1 Forked Bolt
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Spell Pierce
1 REB
1 Pyroblast
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Zuran Orb (for the rising number of budget burn players running Eidolon)

1st Match: Elves 2-1
Game 1: Drew mostly blue cards and was overrun by grindy little green men. He was running 3 Gitaxian Probes main which allowed him to play around my counterspells.

SB +2 Rough/Tumble, +1 Forked Bolt, +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 Clique
-1 Nimble Mongoose, -2 Daze, -1 FoW, -1 Gitaxian Probe

Game 2: Locked down with Grafdigger's Cage and Needle on Wirewood Symbiote, which allowed Forked Bolt to do some damage.

SB +1 FoW, -1 Probe, -2 Stifle, +2 Submerge

Game 3: I remember this game going long, with Tarmogoyf and Delver teaming up to kill a Ruric Thar. I was able to draw both Forked Bolts and 2 lightning bolts to manage his board and seal the win.

2nd Match: Stoneblade Thopter 2-0

Game 1: Wastelands and stifles fly around until I leave him stuck on one land. He is unable to cast any more spells and my creatures go in for the kill.
I didn't see enough of his deck, but an early probe revealed a Supreme Verdict so I thought he was on Miracles.

SB +1 Pyro, +1 REB, +1 Spell Pierce -1 Forked Bolt, -1 Lightning Bolt, -1 Daze

Game 2: An early Stoneforge Mystic gets dazed. Delver and Lightning bolts finish the game quickly.

After the game, I talked to him to find out what he was running.

3rd Match: Stax 2-0

Game 1: I keep a hand with Force of Will. He opens with Ancient Tomb into Chalice for one, which meets my Force of Will. He then plays Wasteland and casts Crucible of Worlds. I play Pithing Needle naming Wasteland. He drops another wasteland and casts Bottled Cloister. I end up riding two tarmogoyfs while my counters and bolts keep his side of the board clear of any action.

SB: +1 Jace, +1 Grudge, +1 Revelry, +1 Clique, -1 Mongoose, -1 Forked Bolt, -1 Probe, -1 Daze

Game 2: He manages to ramp mana out quickly and casts Wurmcoil Engine on turn three using Cavern of Souls. I take two hits to the face while desperately digging for answers. I cast Jace, bounce his wurmcoil and pass the turn. My delver flips and swings and I bolt a Lodestone Golem. Jace Brainstorms and bounces Wurmcoil when it goes down again. At this point, he is at forty life from Glimmerposts and Vesuvas. I dig up destructive revelry while the wurmcoil attacks. I topdeck a mongoose and sacrifice a delver to get rid of both tokens. He puts down a Ratchet Bomb to try and hit Jace, but a Pithing Needle puts a stop to that plan. I manage to stabilize and use Jace to finish the game.

4th Match: Win and in vs. Shardless Bug 2-0

Game 1: Stifle with Daze backup is followed by two delvers and a Wasteland. His Deathrite Shaman eats a Forked Bolt while our Goyf gridlock is solved by a lightning bolt.

SB: +1 Forked Bolt, +1 Clique, -1 Mongoose, -1 Probe

Game 2: He keeps a two-land hand which eats a Wasteland. I blindly name Verdant Catacombs with Pithing Needle. He topdecks Verdant Catacombs and puts it into play. A delver backed by a lightning bolt finishes the game.

I intentionally draw my final two matches since I was a lock for top8. In the quarterfinals, I lose, 0-2 against Esper Stoneblade.

My sideboarding felt very suboptimal and I was uncertain about the number of probes I was running, but the Pithing Needles were good all day. I definitely see myself running 2-3 between the main and the sideboard in the near future. :)

Congrats on the wins dude. I'm glad the needles seemed to work well for you all day. How was the elves match up? I've played it once with my needles list and while it did work (needle on wirewood and quirion that game) he was able to just overwhelm me with many green men. I kept a can trip / disruption hand and couldn't find a clock fast enough.

Your list looks a lot better than mine to be honest. I liked the 3 probes and 3 needles as a starting point, but I'm still not sure if I want to go down from them. There's something to be gained from just having perfect information so the 3 probes I like. The 3 needles seem slightly sub optimal and worth shaving one, but there's also the consistency factor that I like. Forked bolt is a great silver bullet to have though which I would love to find room for. Spell pierce is also great all day any day and 2 seems really good.

I would recommend breaking up your fetches some (2/2/2/2 or 4rg/1u/1u/1u/1u are probably the best). It's so nice to be able to name fetches. That's partially why I like the 3 probes, 3 needles in addition to 4 stifles 4 wastelands main deck. You get so much land disruption and can have them play into your dazes more effectively. Or you know you just get more hands of "well Wasteland check, stifle check, needle as second stifle on a stick check... hmmm guess I'll be the only one play magic this game".

Major props for naming Verdant catacombs blind against Shardless. I probably would have just chickened out and named Deathrite (so much value). Something about the fact that they can have a mix of 3 fetches makes me leery of naming any one in particular. Then again that's when probability comes into play. We can look at what they've already played (including games 1 & 2) and determine the best choice for what they could have. So far I've found that naming Deathrite against BGx builds almost always seems right, but maybe just being more aggressive in naming fetches is better.

Hopefully the needles continue to put up results for you. I'm particularly interested if you get any testing in against deathblade or D&T. Those are both popular decks and if needle makes these match ups better I could see them really gaining value in the main deck. I mean it already makes the miracles match up at least 65% or better main deck which is great since apparently people like that deck . It's not like miracles was horrible to begin with, but I'm always open for added win percentages.

[kyreii]

Congrats on the wins dude. I'm glad the needles seemed to work well for you all day. How was the elves match up? I've played it once with my needles list and while it did work (needle on wirewood and quirion that game) he was able to just overwhelm me with many green men. I kept a can trip / disruption hand and couldn't find a clock fast enough.

Your list looks a lot better than mine to be honest. I liked the 3 probes and 3 needles as a starting point, but I'm still not sure if I want to go down from them. There's something to be gained from just having perfect information so the 3 probes I like. The 3 needles seem slightly sub optimal and worth shaving one, but there's also the consistency factor that I like. Forked bolt is a great silver bullet to have though which I would love to find room for. Spell pierce is also great all day any day and 2 seems really good.

I would recommend breaking up your fetches some (2/2/2/2 or 4rg/1u/1u/1u/1u are probably the best). It's so nice to be able to name fetches. That's partially why I like the 3 probes, 3 needles in addition to 4 stifles 4 wastelands main deck. You get so much land disruption and can have them play into your dazes more effectively. Or you know you just get more hands of "well Wasteland check, stifle check, needle as second stifle on a stick check... hmmm guess I'll be the only one play magic this game".

Major props for naming Verdant catacombs blind against Shardless. I probably would have just chickened out and named Deathrite (so much value). Something about the fact that they can have a mix of 3 fetches makes me leery of naming any one in particular. Then again that's when probability comes into play. We can look at what they've already played (including games 1 & 2) and determine the best choice for what they could have. So far I've found that naming Deathrite against BGx builds almost always seems right, but maybe just being more aggressive in naming fetches is better.

Hopefully the needles continue to put up results for you. I'm particularly interested if you get any testing in against deathblade or D&T. Those are both popular decks and if needle makes these match ups better I could see them really gaining value in the main deck. I mean it already makes the miracles match up at least 65% or better main deck which is great since apparently people like that deck . It's not like miracles was horrible to begin with, but I'm always open for added win percentages.

Thanks! I put in the needles the night before when I saw it on this thread. I'm still playing around with the six cards, but I like having 2-3 pithing between the main and board.

From experience, I usually lose game 1 against elves and transition to a burn-heavy deck in games 2 and 3. Mongoose goes out for Vendilion Clique for another threat with evasion. Rough/Tumble is a house, especially now that I can name Symbiote. Resolving two burn spells during turns 2-4 usually wins the game against elves.

As for the fetches, I should have broken them up, but people were borrowing my modern fetchlands and I didn't have Wooded Foothills yet. :P But I agree with the decision to split. I will be running 2-2-2-2 until I get some Foothills. I named Verdant Catacombs blind because I really didn't have anything to cast, had one mana open for Daze, float-1-return island to hand shenanigans and he was stuck on a basic forest.

Still have to test against DnT. I'm hoping forked bolt will prove useful. Deathblade, well, I still haven't won against that deck using RUG or Elves.

[poxy14]

(4-2) 12th place, 50+ man tourney DUEL4DUALS July 20, 2014

games went well, as i nailed matches i was expecting to win (vs combos), got me a surprise W too vs an archetype i feared, piloted by one of the best players here in the land. lost games to unexpected decks and had me rethinking of one card...DISMEMBER, (well if only they didnt print Eidolon, burn will not show up these days and i’d play it! haha!). meta was wild! lots of burn, mud, snt,sfm decks...some rogue decks appeared too..i guess it was only me and my teammate Erik (KYREII) that sleeved up RUG that day (he top’ed 8 with maindecked 3 probes 2 needles if im correct, briefly discussed his new twist and as he was bout to start the playoffs, i decided to go early coz it’s raining real heavy last night, his awesome list is posted ^)

Round 1 (2-0 vs merfolks)
my burn heavy built RUG gave me some confidence, but facing my friend Bernz (when he shows up, often times you’ll see this guy on the TOP8), i know im in for a big battle..
G1 when i drew double goyfs and my lone TARFIRE with a delver made it an easy finish for me..i bolted 2 lords too and his cursecatchers were too late rescuing their prized lords..
G2 early delver again, never saw any vials both games, so when i drew 1 of 2 needles...i named mutavault so i could increase damage with unthreshed goose..he never was able to established a good clock with tons of burn and pyroblasts..goyfs never came but when i thought i’ll be very ahead even if im holding a Rough..i inserted in my TNN on the board for the final points of damage.
(-4fows, -4dazes, -2pierces / + 2roughs, 3pyroblasts, 1TNN, 2needles, 1grudge, 1revelry)

Round 2 (0-2 vs monoblack obliterator)
G1 and this very deck exists!..he had a slow start but managed to squeeze in his Phyrexian Obliterator after he duressed me, and that was game for me...earlier, i countered a jitte and a disfigure to keep my delver, expecting to get ahead, but felt short still, as he has lots of removals via malakirs and Lotv.
G2 i didnt board out my counters as it was the only answers to his Obliterators..i got a good clock via Cliq, but still wasnt able to manage to draw even any fow or daze when he starts unloading 2 obliterators that send me packing.
(-1 forked bolt, -1tarfire, -1stifle / +1 pierce, +2 needles, for DRS and SDT)

Round 3 (2-0 vs sneakshow)
G1 he mulled to 5 and never really got it going, denying him of colored mana he needs to cantrip via stifling fetches..
coming in to G2, he’s giving me comments like “RUG? thought it was not a deck these days”, i just smiled back, (but my mind’s telling him, im gonna crush you in a bit buddy!)
G2 was slow..as he was able to reb my early Cliq, and i never drew any relevant threat..he Bloodmooned, i responded fetching Trop, floated green and resolved his enchantment..eot D’revelried it and saved still all important permissions for Show.. resolved a Needle naming Sneak and was expecting him to counter my very late goyf which he didnt, thus putting him in real big trouble...he probed me and saw surgical, 2pyroblasts, 2 pierces, 2 fows, 1 snare...he conceded. didnt board out snares for Defense grids and Pyroclasms...mvp here was A.grudge! destroyed 2 petals when he wasnt doing anything and made my pierces live even in the middle of the game.
(-1tarfire, -1forked bolt, -2goose, 1TNN, 4bolts / + 3pyroblasts, 1pierce, 1 surgical, 1 ancient grudge, 1 destructive revelry, 2needles)

Round 4 (2-0 vs TES)
G1 wasted his Usea and knowing he’s struggling to get another land...i decided to counter his 2 chromes, delver got him to 10, but that was it for me with no hand, when he drew a swamp and started to ramp for Adnaus..i was just waiting for him to finish me off... but he Adnaused only twice revealing an ETW (-4) and a Tendrils! (-5) just a lucky day for me i guess!
G2 where both of my Snares are key to his Burning Wish and Infernal Tutor.
(- 1tarfire, 1forked, 3goose, 1TNN / + 1 graf, 1 surgical, 1 pierce, 2 roughs, 1 ancient grudge)
bolts are key here for xanthids, and by hitting them, it made adnaus a weaker engine for their multiple draws..

Round 5 (1-2 vs jund loam)
here’s where im missed my 3rd submerge! lots of annoying crits vs scooze and kotrs and drs..got game 2 via multiple delvers and a TNN, left in fows still game 3 coz he has Chalices main and i hated that.. G3 got me 2 delvers, and with him flipping kotrs on his confidant, i know im in good shape...but then again three turns my delvers didnt able to get to the sky..it was just this very game it happened to me! left me short for a top8 position, winning this would land me to fifth.. : (

Round 6 (2-0 vs ur nivmagus)
countered 2 nivmagus as i hate losing again to 4up TOUGHNESS crits! goyfs got there and made it difficult for his grims to make relevant damages to me midgame...game 2 where i landed my 2nd TNN as it was just blocking a big nivmagus and the other attacking him...my mind was still on the delvers that didnt flipped match 5, atleast i was able to get a good finish still by pulling off the last 2 games..

first time i played with 1 less STIFLE to squeeze in a 2nd SNARE, not much of a difference as i drew them both still with consistency, i think ill be going 3 stifles for the moment..im thinking of inserting in back the 3rd submerge... i just hate losing to random kotr.dec..or a dismember if ever ill be facing that obliterator again haha! over-all the list was solid, expecting a meta-filled with miracles, burn, sfms, tnns, snts, dnts and up’ed snare count to 2.

THE BUILT
everything usual with these tweaks...3stifles, 2pierces, 2snares, 1forked, 1f/ice, 1tarfire, 3goose, 3goyfs, 1vcliq, 1TNN

HELPERS
3 pyroblasts, 2 needles (just loving them!), 1TNN, 1ancient grudge, 1destructive revelry, 2roughs. 1 graf, 1 surgical, 1pierce, 2submerge

thanks guys for reading! GO RUG!

[Contract Killer]

Thanks! I put in the needles the night before when I saw it on this thread. I'm still playing around with the six cards, but I like having 2-3 pithing between the main and board.

From experience, I usually lose game 1 against elves and transition to a burn-heavy deck in games 2 and 3. Mongoose goes out for Vendilion Clique for another threat with evasion. Rough/Tumble is a house, especially now that I can name Symbiote. Resolving two burn spells during turns 2-4 usually wins the game against elves.

As for the fetches, I should have broken them up, but people were borrowing my modern fetchlands and I didn't have Wooded Foothills yet. :P But I agree with the decision to split. I will be running 2-2-2-2 until I get some Foothills. I named Verdant Catacombs blind because I really didn't have anything to cast, had one mana open for Daze, float-1-return island to hand shenanigans and he was stuck on a basic forest.

Still have to test against DnT. I'm hoping forked bolt will prove useful. Deathblade, well, I still haven't won against that deck using RUG or Elves.

Deathblade is a hard match up to begin with. I've played 2 or 3 games against it with my build and Needle on deathrite really hurts that deck. It has a stupidly greedy mana base to begin with and needle on deathrite can end with them falling under the weight of their own mana costs. It's really hard for them to cast stuff like abrupt decay, Liliana and supreme verdict if they have no deathrites.

I'll be playing my list tomorrow (probably same 60 main deck) in my local weekly. In addition I will probably get the chance to test some of those match ups and hopefully get good results :D.

[poxy14]

@contract killer: when i saw KYREII last night, i told him to visit this forum, mentioned to him i saw an interesting list with ur probing needle built...he was just smiling at me, not knowing he's sleeving up that list haha!

@kyreii: and it surprised me we're both 1 less stifle upon checking ur list! well u knew it once u checked my binder with a lone judge stifle in there haha!

[sawatarix]

what do you guys think about nimble mongoose in general now in the metagame - is goose still the loose?
Honestly I liked the little beast alot in 2012 when there was no deathrite shaman but nowadays it's actually pretty hard to get threshold when you face an opposing shaman.
but even if there is no shaman on the other side of the table it's still turn 4 or 5 when goose grows and that's already the midgame when other creatures dominate the board like tarmogoyfs,tnn or knight of the reliquary.

I'm currently thinkin about 4 Delver 4 Tarmogoy 2 Grim Lavamancer and 1 Vendillion Clique/Snapcaster Mage to have a better game against our 'bad' matchups like jund and death&taxes.Sure the miracle matchup gets a bit worse but rug has already a good miracle-mu so it should be ok.

thoughts?

[KobeBryan]

what do you guys think about nimble mongoose in general now in the metagame - is goose still the loose?
Honestly I liked the little beast alot in 2012 when there was no deathrite shaman but nowadays it's actually pretty hard to get threshold when you face an opposing shaman.
but even if there is no shaman on the other side of the table it's still turn 4 or 5 when goose grows and that's already the midgame when other creatures dominate the board like tarmogoyfs,tnn or knight of the reliquary.

I'm currently thinkin about 4 Delver 4 Tarmogoy 2 Grim Lavamancer and 1 Vendillion Clique/Snapcaster Mage to have a better game against our 'bad' matchups like jund and death&taxes.Sure the miracle matchup gets a bit worse but rug has already a good miracle-mu so it should be ok.

thoughts?

MD needle

[Bed Decks Palyer]

You may either try to make mongoose faster with Mental Note 2.0 and such, but then you got a deck full of otherwise useless stuff. Or you may try Needle which simultaneously stops DRS and has other applications.
I would cut one Mongoose. I may see myself going down to 3-of, esp. in a build with TNN/Clique. But Mongoose is still the most resilient creature we may get. Also, while it takes time to grow, don't forget that sometimes it's the only reliable and playble threat we got, as Goyf is expensive and Delver dies to a stronger fart. Instead of seeing mongoose as a slow clock, see it as a threat that continues to deal dmg while leaving you with open mana (thanks to low cmc and in-built protection). All other creatures that the opponent may throw in front of your mongoose, may be dealt with, be it any x/2 dude that UWR/RUG/bUrg/BUG/Jund may offer or any hatebear from DnT that dies to our removal, Goyf that may be hit by Snare/Daze/Force, KotR/TNN that are super reliant on a solid manabase, etc. You play mongoose on your first or second turn, and then simply fire-and-forget it; you let it deal dmg or w-e, while you concentrate on the new tasks that every new turn brings.