[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

[bennotsi]

Thanks for writing up the report! It's very cool to read about someone playing Doomsday at such a big tournament. I think you actually did very well! Too bad you lost against Dredge and ANT those are usually very easy matchups in my experience (though I do play with Silences).

I was thinking about that odd game 1 in round 2, with 6 lands and 2 LEDs you could have built a Doomsday-Time Spiral pile, but then I noticed you don't play Time Spiral. It doesn't really matter, letting him die to his own Bob is much more stylish ;-)

[sillysam71]

I decided to run Edge of Autumn since in the past I've frequently ended up with a combination of BW and DD in hand on my combo turn with no draw spell, so I wanted to be able to turn BW into a draw spell.

Looking back at that round 2 game 1, I think I could've actually won. My hand was:
DD, GP, LED, BW and I had 6 lands so BBBURR. My sequence was:

GP(countered)(1)(BBBURR), LED(2)(BBBURR), BW for Edge(3)(BBBR), DD building IU,LED,LED,BW,X(4)(R), Edge for IU sac LED(4)(UUUR), IU(5)(UR), LED LED BW break LED's(8)(BBBBBB), Tendrils for 9

If this was actually my situation, I could've:
GP(countered)(1)(BBBURR), LED(2)(BBBURR), DD for LP,LED,LED,BW,X(3)(URR), BW for Contract breaking LED(4)(BBBR), Contract(5)(R), LP LED LED BW(9)(BBBBBB), Tendrils for 10.

I think after Tendrils I went up to 23 life, so that means I still had 5 life which is plenty to cast Contract so I could've actually just won on the spot there. Oh well, got there anyway luckily. So I guess now looking back, I'm not sure if Edge is completely worth it. In situations where I'm getting it, I probably have an LED in play anyway for IU, so I will have the mana for Contract. That is, unless I just have UU open from lands, then Edge would be superior and Contract would be uncastable. I'll have to mess around with it some more, but I think I like Edge for now, just for that situation.

I didn't see a single Stifle or Spell Snare all day, so not having white wasn't too detrimental, although it probably would've helped against ANT.

[davelin]

Well, I played Doomsday at SCG Columbus this past Sunday and cashed, ending up in 58th place out of I think over 450, so I thought I’d write up a report.

It’s been quite awhile since I’ve had this deck together and done any testing with it, but I’ve been itching to play it lately, especially since I have it completely foiled out now, so I threw it together at 3 in the morning the night before when I got home from the bars. Here’s the list I ended up slinging:

3 Doomsday
4 Burning Wish
1 Idea’s Unbound
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Chromatic Sphere

4 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress

4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
2 Lotus Petal

4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
2 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard:
1 Tropical Island
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Xantid Swarm
1 Karakas
1 Doomsday
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Edge of Autumn
2 Massacre
1 Thoughtseize
1 Infernal Contract
1 Chain of Vapor

It was only a 20 minute drive to get downtown, so naturally I barely make it in time and am super hungover. Oh well, Excedrin and coffee make up for it, so here we go.

Round 1: John Good-Dredge
Game 1: He’s on the play and starts with a careful study. Well, I guess the cat’s out of the bag. He ends up getting there on turn 3 when I had the win setup for my next turn, how unfortunate.
Game 2: I have Probe and Therapy, I decide to Probe first instead of just blind naming LED, but he had it and I named it anyway. He had a ballin hand that probably would’ve killed me on his turn two if not one, but after stripping the LED I won on turn two or three.
Game 3: He leads off land, LED, Faithless, and ends up hitting Moeba two and three on his last two dredges with two bridges, Zealot, and two Bridges already in the graveyard. Well shit, got turn one’d. Well, that is the game we play I guess. Nice guy to play against, though.
0-1

Round 2: Alex-Jund Loam
Game 1: He leads Bloodstained Mire pass. I blind name Abrupt Decay and hit one also seeing Taiga, Forgotten Cave, Wasteland, Diabolic Edict, and Chalice. He drops Chalice on turn two and things aren’t looking good since my hand has a bunch of dig spells. He doesn’t have a threat and hasn’t hit a Loam, so I have all the time in the world. He eventually gets out a Countryside Crusher and then a Bob the turn after, so now I need to go. I ended up getting up to my sixth land on my last turn I could go off, so here we go. I counted it up and I could only deal 18 damage to get him to 1, but I had no other choice so I went for it to gain life. Fetched my 3 lands, played 2 LED’s, Probe for free storm, Wish for Edge of Autumn, Doomsday building IU, LED, LED, BW, DD. He’s now at 1 and I’m at 23. I pass AND HE DOESN’T EDICT HIS BOB! He realizes it after he started his turn and tries to do it in his upkeep and I tell him he can’t. Flips a Goyf and we’re off to game 2!
Game 2: I mull to six and my pants get real tight when I see Badlands, LED, Dark Rit, Doomsday, Probe, and an Abrupt Decay. I keep and pray he doesn’t have the Chalice. He plays a land, cycles forgotten cave, plays Mox Diamond, and cycles another before passing the turn. At this point, my erection has shot through the table as I easily turn one him.
1-1

Round 3: Kevin Huang-ANT
Game 1: I just got done watching him play a random game against my friend Jeff Rasmussen, so I think I know what he’s on and it’s confirmed when I see the same pimped out cards. He Ponders and Probes and sees what I’m on. He knows how the deck plays. I probe and Therapy his Therapy leaving him with Dark Rit, Petal, and Delta. He doesn’t draw the Tutor and I win on my next turn.
Game 2 and 3: I don’t remember the specifics between these games, but I lost them both. At one point, I Therapy his leaving him with a hand full of rituals and then proceed to cut him into the Tutor. Awesome. Fun guy to play against and he was pretty good with the deck.
1-2

Round 4: Alex Poling-RU Trinket Control
Game 1: I Therapied him fairly early in the game hitting his FoW and seeing Trinket Mage, Brainstorm, 2 Bolts, and lands. Interesting deck. I then proceeded to Tendrils him in the face.
Game 2: He got out a Clique on my third draw step and then a Trinket Mage for Pithing Needle soon after and my life total resembles that until 0.
Game 3: He has all of the counters this game. I think I dealt with 2 Forces, 2 or 3 counterspells, and then when I try to go off because his Jace is about to ultimate, my Doomsday gets Pierced. This Pierce was super unfortunate because I had top in play for my draw spell and after paying two only had two more mana available so by by Tendrils plan. I build something wacky in desperation with Lab Man on top so I could draw into it with top when he tried to exile my library with Jace. I ended up doing this and getting it into play, but with no draw spell left it was all for naught since he could just bounce it with Jace. Bummer.
1-3

Getting hungry and considered dropping, but decided to stay in til I got another loss. I also traded with SCG to get a Time Walk and Mox Ruby between rounds here, so I guess my spirits were high from that as well. Powering up to win out!

Round 5: Kyle Halbison-Deathblade
Game 1: I get Thoughtseized and he gets out a Stoneforge to grab SoFI. I Therapy naming FoW and see that he’s super flooded. I take one hit before jamming the Doomsday and finding out that he had only drawn into more land.
Game 2: He Thoughtseizes me and gets out a Deathrite, then I start taking a little damage. I had to cast Ideas Unbound to get it out of my hand since I didn’t have enough mana to go off with it in my hand. I Therapy him taking Abrupt Decay, leaving StP and a land. I don’t have a draw spell, so I go for it with the intention of making the Lab Man Sphere pile. He Deathrites in response and I get super lucky since he takes the BW that he discarded earlier instead of the IU. Ya, that’s why we play a deck that people don’t know much about. I get there next turn. Sphere is earning it’s stripes.
2-3

Round 6: Ian Marcum-URW Delver
Game 1: He draws a sideboard Flusterstorm and is honest about it and takes a game 1 loss. He saw Island Top, which he countered, and REALLY thinks I’m on Counterbalance.
Game 2: He gets out a Delver and Meddling Mages naming Conterbalance. lol Doesn’t matter, I can’t get there in time.
Game 3: He ends up having 2 Dazes for protection and I get enough mana to play through them and making him lose 28 life.
3-3

Round 7: Adam Johnson-UG Infect
Game 1: We know each other and he’s seeking revenge from the last time we played. I think I Duressed his Force and got there relatively quickly this game after taking 5 poison.
Game 2: He has a couple forces this time. I Abrupt Decay a guy to buy time, but I can’t find a discard spell before he Berserks.
Game 3: I get rid of his only Force and on my next turn build the pass the turn Lab Man pile with a Therapy in it since I already had an LED in play. He doesn’t draw the force or a way to kill me in time so I win the match.
4-3

Round 8: No show! Woo hoo!
5-3

Round 9: Chris Stagno-Jund Depths
Game 1: He leads Flooded Strand then Entombs on the end of my turn. For a second, I thought I was gonna get blown out by Reanimator, but he gets Raven’s Crime. He then proceeds to start discarding my hand and wasting my land before he Loams it all back. I’m in a bad spot. I BW for Doomsday knowing I have a short window to draw the last pieces, but I don’t before he empties my hand, which now had two Doomsdays. I slowly draw lands and build up my basics. He’s discarding everything I don’t play. It’s now about turn 20 and he’s attacking with a Nether Spirit and a Squee and questioning why I haven’t conceded yet. He has a Depths out, but I haven’t seen a Stage. I have amassed 2 LED’s and a Top. I need to find a Dark Rit and Doomsday at the same time with top since the rest of my lands didn’t stick around long, which I somehow actually do. I draw one for the turn and top into the other building the Lab Man pile. Passing the turn with 5 life left. He swings and puts me to 2. I get out Lab Man and all that good stuff and activate Sphere. He tries to bring back a Punishing Fire to kill it, but I inform him that he can’t respond to the Sphere and we’re off to game 2. Somehow I pulled that one out of my ass.
Game 2: He mulls and doesn’t have a Waste or Loam. He Thoughtseizes, but I think I got there on turn 3 anyway.
6-3

Round 10: Patrick Peters-Merfolk
Game 1: He leads off with Vial. I have a Probe and two Therapies, so I Probe seeing two Lords, Phantasmal Image, Fow, and Cavern. I Therapy away his Lords first, then on my next turn hit the Fow before winning shortly after.
Game 2: He leads Island pass. I Therapy naming Fow. I miss seeing Flusterstorm, Daze, Silvergill, Island, TNN, and Lord. Shit. I pass. He plays the Island and then the Silvergill. Holy shit he tapped out. I think I drew the ritual that gave me the win this turn. I played my second land and cast Rain of Filth. This was truly his only chance to Daze me since I was going to draw into my pile with a Ponder and I needed my second land to cast it, but he allows it to resolve. Dark Rit, LED, Doomsday, you know the drill.
7-3

Finally time to get out of there to get some food and drinks!

All in all, I had a lot of fun playing the deck and am glad I sleaved it up, even if I only ended up with $50. All of my losses went to game 3 and were really close. I’ll probably keep playing this deck for awhile now. On an odd note, I also ended up having a very hard time falling asleep that night because my mind kept racing through Doomsday scenarios and piles. I guess that’s what happens when you play the deck for 12 hours straight. lol

Very nice report! With labman main, is he solely as a wincon in situations when a resolved Doomsday may not generate enough storm to win?

[anwei]

Very nice report! With labman main, is he solely as a wincon in situations when a resolved Doomsday may not generate enough storm to win?

It's also in the Chain of Vapor spot for beating Teeg/Leyline/etc., makes a nice pass-the-turn pile with similar requirements to the Time Spiral one (freeing up that spot), and, of debatable use but a real thing for me at least, provides a comparatively straightforward pile that's slightly more resource-intensive than many ToA piles (so on a long day, in a game where you have plenty of resources but have just been looking for DD or something, now you can relaxedly combo out without planning what might need to be a tougher pile, with more careful mana/storm requirements, etc.).

(As a fringe benefit, so many people are unfamiliar enough with Doomsday that if you Lab Man them game 1, they might mis-board.)

[sillysam71]

I often go for the pass the turn labman pile in situations where I don't have a cantrip to get into my doomsday pile, but I have everything else taken care of and ready to go. It's also nice when you are able to cast doomsday with no other cards and be able to win on the following turn. I think I only won with it 3 times over the course of 10 rounds, but they were usually situations where I would have otherwise lost. Going for the Tendrils kill is still the preferred method, though, as it has cheaper requirements as long as you have all the pieces of the puzzle.

[nevilshute]

Howdy all.

I'm new to Doomsday but not to legacy storm decks (how many first time posts in this thread start out like this, huh! )

I've picked up a list close to what Sillysam played in his tournament only I've made some minor adjustments. Most noticeably I've decided to splash white for a Karakas and 4 Silence, playing a 4/3 split of silence/cabal therapy (with a 4th therapy as a BW target in the board). I'm playing the Lab Man in the main but have cut the Chromatic Sphere. I initially played with it, but it felt super awkward and I never once got to play it and win with maniac. Instead I'd win with maniac on the same turn through probe and top.


I have a few things I'd like to ask:

Void Snare
So everyone playing Burning Wish seems in ecstacy over this card. I was going to include it instead of Chain of Vapor but I started to think about it and struggled to really see where I'd want it. Having access to the Lab Man in the main deck really limits the necessity of Void Snare. Lab Man already lets us win through a Gaddock Teeg and White Leyline. It doesn't let us bounce chalice@1 anyway. Okay it bounces Chalice@0 and Trinisphere, but those are long shots. Bouncing Trinishpere implies that you have the three mana to cast the Void Snare and then enough mana/ressources to go off in the same turn. If MUD is a big thing in a meta then I'd just as soon pack a Meltdown in the board.

The one situation I can think of, where having access to the snare is actually incredibly sweet is against Iona naming black. That doesn't come up too often though.

Where do you stand on Void Snare? Is it worth an inclusion in spite of the above mentioned points about Laboratory Maniac negating most of the things we want game-1 removal from?

Beating UR-delver
I've played the deck at only three locals this far so maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, trying to draw conclusions. However. I've lost - decisively - to UR-delver at all three tournaments. It just seems really tough. How do you approach this matchup? I'm looking to try out two Flusterstorms in my sideboard (not specifically for this MU, but it's a card I've been looking to try out in my ANT-list and it seems relevant here), but I don't really know how else to go about it...

Should I just accept that this is a really tough matchup and one I will lose more than win? Or is it a matter of approach. The main two issues when playing this MU for me compared to when playing ANT is, that DD feels a good turn slower (this might just be me) and then the fact that I'm losing half my life when I go off. I think my opponents - in all the matches - have had really, above avarage hands, but even so... Turn one Delver, turn two flip, cast goblin guide, in for 5, chain lightning, boom I'm at 11 having fetched. I then probe and see force, delver, bolt. Great, I have one turn and I have to beat force...

For reference, here's my current list:


4x Dark Ritual
1x Rain of Filth
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
2x Lotus Petal
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Burning Wish
4x Silence
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Doomsday
1x Ideas Unbound
1x Laboratory Maniac
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
1x Tundra
1x Karakas
1x Island
1x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Bloodstained Mire


Sideboard:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Tropical Island
1x Doomsday
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Edge of Autumn
1x Time Spiral
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Toxic Deluge
2x Massacre
2x Flusterstorm
1x Meltdown

The last three slots in the board I have just changed, they were, until recently:

-2 Flusterstorm
-1 Meltdown

+1 Empty the Warrens
+1 Infernal Contract
+1 Void Snare/CoV

Empty seems incredibly marginal in its usage. I think in a staggering majority of cases you can do something better. Infernal Contract I'm less sure of, but it also seems a bit marginal, less so than Empty, but still. And yeah, the void snare... I've gone through that.

Hoping for some feedback / constructive criticism

[Togores]

2012 when I was playing the deck like a half year long I played oust in the side for creature removal. Iona never called red or White so this card was really good. Also it was in a time where chant effect where better tan discard.

Also the infernal contract was played in the side to Dodge reb and spell snare, so you can know when its good.


That was the list I played back then :)

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=7561&iddeck=54923

[Namida]

Void Snare seems good in other Burning Wish decks because it gives them a way to deal with opposing hate, but Doomsday is already set up well enough against maindeck hate that Void Snare really seems like a weak use of sideboard space. "Ad Nauseam into a bunch of mana and spend 3 mana on Wish into Snare" is basically analogous to a Chain of Vapor Pile or a Laboratory Maniac Pile. Laboratory Maniac beats much of the opposing hate, and I think Burning Wish finding Massacre deals with the rest of it. That being said, I think Chain of Vapor is still good in the sideboard because it's an instant, Chain of Vapor piles are still good, and sometimes you might want to side out Laboratory Maniac.

Personally, I'm still playing Empty the Warrens because Chalice decks in my area also play Leyline of Sanctity and I feel like my best bet to win is to cast Burning Wish or Doomsday on turn one. Other players agree that you could probably be doing better things, and some of the players have also cut Time Spiral from the side for the same reason.

Is there a specific reason you need three mass removal spells in your sideboard?

I also don't really like Edge of Autumn. You can normally side out a copy of Gitaxian Probe out as a Wishable draw spell in your postboard games so I feel that Edge of Autumn only really has any function in preboard games, and its only function is to help Burning Wish facilitate the combo. Basically, for as marginal as you think Infernal Contract is, I believe that Edge of Autumn is actually worse.

I have a bit of trouble with UR Delver, too. I haven't played against it in a while, but it seems like it's just a difficult matchup. I personally don't feel like Doomsday is really much slower than ANT, but UR Delver is basically Burn with permission, and Burn is already pretty annoying to face with this deck because losing half your life against a deck that is all direct damage spells can be precarious. I think you just need to hope to go off quickly here. Having Chants in your deck helps; this might also be a match where having Empty the Warrens in your sideboard would be beneficial so you have more ways to win that don't require actually casting your Doomsday (but I don't know if you want Empty the Warrens in general).

Speaking of Burn decks...Burn is becoming a more popular deck, and Eidolon seems tough to beat. I know I don't open on enough crazy hands that kill before it would hit the board so now preboard games seem to be about dodging maindeck hate, which isn't good. I feel like all I can really do is side in the fourth Cabal Therapy over the fourth Duress in postboard games to give myself more chances to discard it, and side in my lone Chain of Vapor because I'm also not sure about siding in Abrupt Decay against Price of Progress. Does anyone else have any other opinions?

[nevilshute]

Void Snare seems good in other Burning Wish decks because it gives them a way to deal with opposing hate, but Doomsday is already set up well enough against maindeck hate that Void Snare really seems like a weak use of sideboard space. "Ad Nauseam into a bunch of mana and spend 3 mana on Wish into Snare" is basically analogous to a Chain of Vapor Pile or a Laboratory Maniac Pile. Laboratory Maniac beats much of the opposing hate, and I think Burning Wish finding Massacre deals with the rest of it. That being said, I think Chain of Vapor is still good in the sideboard because it's an instant, Chain of Vapor piles are still good, and sometimes you might want to side out Laboratory Maniac.

Personally, I'm still playing Empty the Warrens because Chalice decks in my area also play Leyline of Sanctity and I feel like my best bet to win is to cast Burning Wish or Doomsday on turn one. Other players agree that you could probably be doing better things, and some of the players have also cut Time Spiral from the side for the same reason.

Is there a specific reason you need three mass removal spells in your sideboard?

I also don't really like Edge of Autumn. You can normally side out a copy of Gitaxian Probe out as a Wishable draw spell in your postboard games so I feel that Edge of Autumn only really has any function in preboard games, and its only function is to help Burning Wish facilitate the combo. Basically, for as marginal as you think Infernal Contract is, I believe that Edge of Autumn is actually worse.

I have a bit of trouble with UR Delver, too. I haven't played against it in a while, but it seems like it's just a difficult matchup. I personally don't feel like Doomsday is really much slower than ANT, but UR Delver is basically Burn with permission, and Burn is already pretty annoying to face with this deck because losing half your life against a deck that is all direct damage spells can be precarious. I think you just need to hope to go off quickly here. Having Chants in your deck helps; this might also be a match where having Empty the Warrens in your sideboard would be beneficial so you have more ways to win that don't require actually casting your Doomsday (but I don't know if you want Empty the Warrens in general).

Speaking of Burn decks...Burn is becoming a more popular deck, and Eidolon seems tough to beat. I know I don't open on enough crazy hands that kill before it would hit the board so now preboard games seem to be about dodging maindeck hate, which isn't good. I feel like all I can really do is side in the fourth Cabal Therapy over the fourth Duress in postboard games to give myself more chances to discard it, and side in my lone Chain of Vapor because I'm also not sure about siding in Abrupt Decay against Price of Progress. Does anyone else have any other opinions?

Thanks for the reply Namida.

Regarding the three mass removal spells: It could be that I'm over-focusing on it, but living in Copenhagen I'm bound to face quite a bit of Death and Taxes (due to Fellow Danes Thomas Enevoldsen and Michael Bonde popularizing the deck immensely). At my LGS I'd say in the past six-eight months there's always a D&T player in the room. The average perhaps being close to two decks in the room at every weekly. So I really, really want to be able to win against that deck. In that matchup, as it is, I board in one Massacre and one Toxic Deluge and then maybe two Decays. That way I still have a way to wish for a Massacre while having two sweepers to draw in the main deck. I don't know, maybe it's one too many...

Another question: Do you run a Tendrils in the main? I've had it come up a couple of times that I could have won with Tendrils in the main, but couldn't without. I don't have it in the main and I'm at a loss over what to cut for it.

Also yeah, the Eidolon is annoying (think that goes across the board for storm decks). I tested a bit against Burn and yeah, that's kind of a tough MU in the first place. Chanting them on their 2nd turn to win on your third seems like a good play, if on the play. Or discarding them... Other than that I don't think we can realistically beat them resolving that Card game 1. I probably wouldn't hesistate to bring in decays, even when facing PoPs. Worst case is they play Eidolon on their 2nd turn on the play. You untap and play your 2nd land and pass the turn with a decay in hand and two non-basics. They've dealt you 3 dmg so far from a bolt/chain/rift on their first turn. They untap, drop a guide and swing in for 4, you decay the eidolon and take 2 dropping you to 11 (you've fetched twice, let's say). Now you probably have to win on this next turn regardless. They have two untapped mana. If they PoP you you drop to 7 but they're tapped out and you now "only" lose to a fireblast". If they don't pop you, but instead chain lightning you, you drop to 8 and still lose to a fireblast. They might also be sandbagging a bolt in that case but you still live that way, winning at 1 life. The point being that they shouldn't be able to hit you more than once with PoP and it should be early enough in the game that it won't be bigger than for 4, maybe 6 dmg. If they hit you for 6 then it's probably game over, but we should be aiming for a turn three win at the very latest in this matchup so it will never be for more and yeah, hopefully we can keep at 4 (Swamp, Volcanic, Tropical for instance).

[nevilshute]

A scenario came up last night and I think there was a way to win on the same turn, but I couldn't work it out. My lack of experience shun through. I've been wracking my brain ever since to come up with a solution but have so far fallen short.

My board state:

-Swamp (tapped)
-Badlands (tapped)
-Underground Sea (tapped)
-Volcanic Island (untapped)
-Tundra (untapped)
-Island (untapped)
-Sensei's Divining Top.

Zero mana floating. Doomsday on the stack

Cards in hand, 1: Silence.

Life total: 19

Opponent's life total: 20

Opponent: Shardless Bant

Opponent has 4 lands in play, zero cards in hand. No other permanents.

Storm is one.

How do I win in this turn?

This was my list. I won't write the sideboard as I'd like to see if there are other cards you think of that I could have played in the board that would have gotten me there. I tried to go for a Lab Man win, but couldn't find a way to win on the same turn. My conclusion was that I needed either another mana, or a probe in hand to win on the same turn. What would you have done?


4x Dark Ritual
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
3x Lotus Petal
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Burning Wish
4x Silence
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Doomsday
1x Ideas Unbound
1x Laboratory Maniac
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
1x Tundra
1x Karakas
1x Island
1x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Bloodstained Mire

[Doishy]

What life is your opponent on?

[nevilshute]

What life is your opponent on?

Doh, I knew I had forgotten something. Yeah, opponent was at 20. I've edited it.

[GoboLord]

A scenario came up last night and I think there was a way to win on the same turn, but I couldn't work it out. My lack of experience shun through. I've been wracking my brain ever since to come up with a solution but have so far fallen short.

My board state:

-Swamp (tapped)
-Badlands (tapped)
-Underground Sea (tapped)
-Volcanic Island (untapped)
-Tundra (untapped)
-Island (untapped)
-Sensei's Divining Top.

Zero mana floating. Doomsday on the stack

Cards in hand, 1: Silence.

Life total: 19

Opponent's life total: 20

Opponent: Shardless Bant

Opponent has 4 lands in play, zero cards in hand. No other permanents.

Storm is one.

How do I win in this turn?

This was my list. I won't write the sideboard as I'd like to see if there are other cards you think of that I could have played in the board that would have gotten me there. I tried to go for a Lab Man win, but couldn't find a way to win on the same turn. My conclusion was that I needed either another mana, or a probe in hand to win on the same turn. What would you have done?


4x Dark Ritual
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
3x Lotus Petal
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Burning Wish
4x Silence
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Doomsday
1x Ideas Unbound
1x Laboratory Maniac
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
1x Tundra
1x Karakas
1x Island
1x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Bloodstained Mire

Your pile will be (from TOP to BOTTOM)

Ideas Unbound
Lion's Eye Diamond
Gitaxian Probe#1
Gitaxian Probe#2
Laboratory Maniac


After resolving DD you do this:

tap SDT, draw IU
Cast IU out of 2 lands (1 land untapped)
draw SDT, LED, Probe
cast LED
cast SDT out of that one untapped land
cast Probe#1 to draw Probe#2
cast Probe#2 and crack LED in response for UUU, draw LabMan
cast Lab Man
tap SDT to draw & win

[nevilshute]

Your pile will be (from TOP to BOTTOM)

Ideas Unbound
Lion's Eye Diamond
Gitaxian Probe#1
Gitaxian Probe#2
Laboratory Maniac


After resolving DD you do this:

tap SDT, draw IU
Cast IU out of 2 lands (1 land untapped)
draw SDT, LED, Probe
cast LED
cast SDT out of that one untapped land
cast Probe#1 to draw Probe#2
cast Probe#2 and crack LED in response for UUU, draw LabMan
cast Lab Man
tap SDT to draw & win

Wow, that seems humblingly simple... Feel silly that I spent so much time on it and was unable to come up with that on my own. Thanks a bunch for chiming in!

[Asthereal]

I see I need to work on my Lab Man piles.

I was immidiately thinking about how easy the win would be if you just went for this pile: Ideas, LED, LED, Wish, Doomsday, aiming for the Empty the Warrens with Doomsday as backup in case he finds an answer. Seems a legit win, but Lab Man does it better.

[Doishy]

I'm currently wanting to construct my first proper Legacy deck having purely stayed on the budget and fun Manaless Dredge plan for the last year. Currently wanting to throw into Doomsday but was not sure what list I wanted to invest in (Money being a big constraint and this being a long term project).

At the moment it is looking like this is the sort of list I want to aim for. It's a BUG configuration that allows for solid UB plan MB with labman as the win then swap over to ustilise the G from the SB to allow a potential ToA win. Carpet of flowers has been a beast in testing allowing for much faster wins off of a single Bayou into Ritual turn two.

I want to avoid R for burning wish as this adds another colour and being fairly new to the proper fetching and selection of lands; I don't wish to throw myself too far in the deep end. Maybe after practice and acquisition of funds I can branch out to it later.

Any and all feedback welcome and remember; I am working on a long term goal to get ahold of these and for now am constrained by budget :)

Here is the list:


1 Bayou
3 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Chromatic Sphere
4 Dark Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Thought Scour
1 Thoughtseize
1 Unearth
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Ideas Unbound
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Doomsday
1 Laboratory Maniac
3 Force of Will
2 Misdirection


Sideboard:


1 Shelldock Isle
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


The main card choices I am not sure on is the singleton Chromatic Sphere, the Menendian Unearth/Thought Scour combo and singleton Therapy/Thoughtseize.

The Sphere does have uses but I have yet to see the full advantage of them yet. I would probably put in another Top or some form of drisruption to replace this.

The Labman GY enablers to allow for very quick same turn piles but these could just as well be done using LED's and IU. Again more disruption would like be added.

Singleton Thoughtseize and Therapy both seem a tad lonely and I cannot decide which is better suited to the task. Having played Dredge I do like Therapy alot and the 2 life can matter a fair bit but I am in two minds.
Again thoughts are appreciated.


Thanks.

[Namida]

Let me ask a few questions:

Why aren't you playing Tendrils in the main?
Why are you only playing 3 Sensei's Tops?
Why are you only playing 3 LED?
Why are you only playing 3 Force of Will?
Why are you playing 3 Infernal Tutor at all?

When do you intend to side in Tendrils of Agony?
When do you intend to side in Emrakul and Shelldock Isle?
When do you intend to side in Sylvan Library?

If you can explain these things, it would help to see where you're coming from. It looks like your deck is trying way too hard to do literally everything. I can't tell the choices you made due to budget concerns from the ones you made for some other reasons I don't understand yet. The only real critiques I feel comfortable giving before hearing any explanations on your end are that you probably need to play Thought Scour and Unearth if you're committed to not playing Tendrils, and that there is no possible way that it can be correct to play less than four Sensei's Tops if you're committed to playing Infernal Tutor.

[Doishy]

Let me ask a few questions:

Why aren't you playing Tendrils in the main?

Because I feel like it would be easier to go for a consistent G1 Labman win. I may be wrong and need to test more online but this is what I currently think.

Why are you only playing 3 Sensei's Tops?

Good question. Should probably up for 4. Wasn't sure what to cut for it but will likely get rid of the Sphere for it.

Why are you only playing 3 LED?

Also good query. What should I cut for it? Unearth/Scour is most likely if it is suggested to not bother with that combo.

Why are you only playing 3 Force of Will?

4 just seemed too many. In testing I would have them with either no card to pitch or would be facing abrupt decays vs the Labman.

Why are you playing 3 Infernal Tutor at all?

Doomsday redundency or for when boarding to grab ToA more like a traditional storm deck.

When do you intend to side in Tendrils of Agony?

Against decks likely to bring in GY hate or creature hate for against the Labman (either Unearth or straight casting).

When do you intend to side in Emrakul and Shelldock Isle?

Possibly for a surprise factor in G3, possibly against decks well placed with way too many counter spells and not nearly enough Karakas. Also maybe S+T for those lucky 'They drop Griselbro, you drop Emrakul' starts.

When do you intend to side in Sylvan Library?

When expecting games to go longer and be harder to push through hate.
It is great to quickly fill your hand with protection and / or enablers after a grindy start or after failed attempts to go off.

If you can explain these things, it would help to see where you're coming from. It looks like your deck is trying way too hard to do literally everything. I can't tell the choices you made due to budget concerns from the ones you made for some other reasons I don't understand yet. The only real critiques I feel comfortable giving before hearing any explanations on your end are that you probably need to play Thought Scour and Unearth if you're committed to not playing Tendrils, and that there is no possible way that it can be correct to play less than four Sensei's Tops if you're committed to playing Infernal Tutor.

I will admit that I should change the three ofs to 4s. I also realise that I am trying to Jack of all Trades it but I feel that flexibility awarded from having all three options should both make it harder for opponents to get the read on your boarding and to make it easier for me to have the right answers.

Thank you for the feedback so far and I hope my answers help :)

[Mhenlo]

I'm currently wanting to construct my first proper Legacy deck having purely stayed on the budget and fun Manaless Dredge plan for the last year. Currently wanting to throw into Doomsday but was not sure what list I wanted to invest in (Money being a big constraint and this being a long term project).

At the moment it is looking like this is the sort of list I want to aim for. It's a BUG configuration that allows for solid UB plan MB with labman as the win then swap over to ustilise the G from the SB to allow a potential ToA win. Carpet of flowers has been a beast in testing allowing for much faster wins off of a single Bayou into Ritual turn two.

I want to avoid R for burning wish as this adds another colour and being fairly new to the proper fetching and selection of lands; I don't wish to throw myself too far in the deep end. Maybe after practice and acquisition of funds I can branch out to it later.

Any and all feedback welcome and remember; I am working on a long term goal to get ahold of these and for now am constrained by budget :)

Here is the list:


1 Bayou
3 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Chromatic Sphere
4 Dark Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Thought Scour
1 Thoughtseize
1 Unearth
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Ideas Unbound
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Doomsday
1 Laboratory Maniac
3 Force of Will
2 Misdirection


Sideboard:


1 Shelldock Isle
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


The main card choices I am not sure on is the singleton Chromatic Sphere, the Menendian Unearth/Thought Scour combo and singleton Therapy/Thoughtseize.

The Sphere does have uses but I have yet to see the full advantage of them yet. I would probably put in another Top or some form of drisruption to replace this.

The Labman GY enablers to allow for very quick same turn piles but these could just as well be done using LED's and IU. Again more disruption would like be added.

Singleton Thoughtseize and Therapy both seem a tad lonely and I cannot decide which is better suited to the task. Having played Dredge I do like Therapy alot and the 2 life can matter a fair bit but I am in two minds.
Again thoughts are appreciated.


Thanks.

IMO I'd cut an Island for a Fetch, Sphere for the 4th Top, and add a Pact Of Negation for something. Possibly SB an Ad Nauseam against slow discard and combo decks because you play Infernal Tutor.

[Doishy]

IMO I'd cut an Island for a Fetch, Sphere for the 4th Top, and add a Pact Of Negation for something. Possibly SB an Ad Nauseam against slow discard and combo decks because you play Infernal Tutor.

Sounds good. Will test those changes tonight :)