Dont expect to win easily VS Miracles. You have more counter magic & removal than most decks i see in your meta. Your fun matchups will be elves, deathblade, & junk.Originally Posted by Kael
How do you guys feel about lavamancer in the main? It seems good against matchups like D&T, Elves, Deathblade, BUG and RUG. I actually can't see why it is not often run in main.
Entirely a meta call. I personally run them board because it's a combo person's world at my legacy hole so having more pitch options to FOW is strictly better.
Guys what do you think on my decklist?
I need your verdict. Thanks...
4 delver of secrets
4 stoneforge mystic
2 true-name nemesis
(10 creatures)
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 daze
3 spell pierce
3 stifle
4 lightning bolt
4 swords to plowshares
1 umezawa's jitte
1 batterskull
(32 other spells)
2 arid Mesa
3 scalding tarn
3 flooded strand
4 wasteland
4 tundra
3 volcanic island
(19 lands)
2 rest in peace
1 grafdigger's cage
1 red elemental blast
1 pyroblast
2 pithing needle
1 sword of feast and famine
1 wear/tear
4 meddling mage
1 wipeaway
1 true-name nemesis
(15 Sideboard)
Hey,
I'm actually really interested in the idea of playing Stifle. I think UWR Delver has run into the problem of absolutely everyone knowing the decks exact 75, and I think this gives us a little leeway to start "getting" people with Stifle again. I've been fairly unimpressed with Spell Pierce and think maybe it's a card that could be trimmed for it. How has it been for you?
With that out of the way, 19 lands may be too few since you aren't running Probes. The rest of the deck looks fine, I'd like to have Grim Lavamancers in the SB.
Well I haven't played it yet in a tourney I've tested it with my friends and it was fun because I stifled their fetches or wasteland. Also because of stifle mainboard it easily beats miracle deck stopping them to have lands in play then beat them fast.
Not a big fan of stifle here. Obviously its a great card for turn 1 on someone's fetch. That is assuming you're on the play. A delver/pierce is better almost 90% of the time over stifle, and you will want to board them out game 2 because you wont have the turn 1 getcha.
Obviously give it a try, but right now i think it's worse than other spells we already have available.
Have added Sword of Fire and Ice into the board and dropped 1 elemental blast to make room for it.
Waaaaaaaaaay too much burn to function without it.
I'm going to my first real Legacy tournament this weekend at SCG KC and will likely be playing this build of this deck
Creatures:10
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Delver of Secrets
2 True-Name Nemesis
Spells:29
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Spell Pierce
Lands:19
4 Wasteland
4 Arid Mesa
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
Sideboard:15
4 Meddling Mage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Flusterstorm
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Pyroblast
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Wear//Tear
Does anybody have any pointers or suggestions? I've watched the deck play quite a few times on SCG streams and played in a few local tournaments and am mostly comfortable with the list. The Meddling Mages in the SB are still a bit concerning for me as I am terrified of running into a situation where I name the wrong thing against a deck that I don't know everything about, or calling Ad Naseum against Storm when I should have called Lion's Eye Diamond or Infernal Tutor
Your list is good. I have been running it for the last few months and it has been performing well for me. As for the meddling mages, you should always name infernal tutor against storm, unless you are playing against TES, in which case you should be naming burning wish. You board the mages in against every combo deck you see, and miracles, naming their terminus unless you have additional information with either probe or when he flips his top, you can meddling mage naming top.
Nice list. It has been performing well but I personally am not a fan of probes in the deck, I have been doing relatively well playing 4 stifles in their place along with - 1 ponder. It's a strong deck that rewards tight play so focus on the correct plays especially on ponders. Also, try to get a hang of which hands work for which decks as this is an important part of making the duck's design work. On meddling mage, a rule of thumb that I have with mages is naming cards that my opponents need to take back advantage. This usually depends on the board state, your hand, and what information you have. Like on storm, I usually name dark ritual or cabal ritual more often than tutor especially if I have a clock in play. For sneak, I usually name show and tell and often times pyroclasm if I have an aggressive clock on board.
Hope this helps. Goodluck!
On the topic of stifle, people say that it's bad or awkward but personally I kind of like them. It helps me a lot on Jund, BUG, Blade and Miracles match-ups that I encounter a lot in our metagame. I had a hard time with Jund and BUG before and now that I have stifle I've matched-up better having the ability to screw their mana or get ahead on tempo by stifling Lilianas, delver activations, and returns from punishing fire. It has played well against blade by hitting living weapon, and sfm and jitte triggers. It also hit miracle triggers and top draws against miracles.
I've done recently well in back to back tournaments here with this build going on the brink of getting top 8 only to lose my win and in against Esperblade both times. Manriki-gusari is a total trump against our game in addition to zealous persecution. The games are close but it often feels strongly in their favor. In 5 games on both rounds , I only won 1 on the back of strong mana denial on white mana.
Does anyone have experience and inputs against this matchup? Is it just really a bad match-up for delver decks? Do I need to play a manriki myself especially that this deck and other blade decks like uw, deathblade and dnt slowly growing in numbers?
Thanks for you inputs guys!
Why so serious?
I went 1-1-2 and dropped with UWR Delver.
Round 1: Win 2-1
I played against Mono Blue Omniscience. Game Three I mulled to Meddling Mage, Meddling Mage, Tundra, Scalding Tarn, Misty, Brainstorm on the draw thinking Mage on Show and Tell would be a huge roadblock. He had a Turn 2 Show and Tell off of Ancient Tomb + Island and put into play Omniscience vs Meddling Mage. I named Enter the Infinite so he couldn't finish the combo, and named Cunning Wish on my turn with Mage #2 and he scooped.
Round 2: Lost 1-2
I played against Sneak and Show. Mulled to five and had him down to 5 facing down two flipped Delvers. I had Gitaxian Probe'd him and knew he had nothing but Emrakul, Griselbrand and land. He drew Sneak Attack off the top to win the game and the match.
Round 3: Draw 1-1-1
I'm not sure if this archetype has a name or not. It was essentially Death and Taxes with Black for Confidant, Shaman, Thoughtseize. We had a few swingy games and started game 3 with 2 minutes left and no chance to finish.
Round 4: Lost 1-2
He was playing Merfolk. He won the dice roll and had Vial. I had a solid hand, but no Swords/Lightning Bolt and couldn't find removal fast enough to bail me out and eventually lost. Game 2 I won fairly easily. Game 3 he had Vial/Vial and proceeded to vial in two True-Name Nemesis.
Pretty terrible tournament overall for me. I didn't feel like I made any tactical errors in my play or sideboarding so it's hard to be upset. I like UWR Delver a lot, but I think it's 75 is just so well known that people don't really have any fear of the unknown. Nobody even thought about playing around Stifle which makes me think it might need to be tested again, and I hate how you can draw the wrong half of your deck.
Just curious if anyone has tried Judge's familiar in this deck? I have been testing it as a 2-3 of in my list and it has been pretty good. It often takes a turn off the clock when it's paired with a delver, and it does pretty well by itself with equipment.
My list for reference: I have been going back and forth between 2-3 judge's familiar (adding a 4 swords or pierce instead)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Delver of Secrets
2 True-Name Nemesis
3 Judge's Familiar
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Spell Pierce
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Wasteland
8 Fetches
3 Tundra
1 Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Meddling Mage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Flusterstorm
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Pyroblast
2 Wear//Tear
Judge's Familiar seems interesting. It's an incredibly slow clock, but can setback your opponent's early game. I think if you want to go with more 1 mana threats you're probably just better off playing RUG Delver as they just do it better.
That's a fair assessment. I never use it as a clock by itself unless I can attach an equipment to it. It's pretty solid on turn 2 following up a turn 1 delver which allows you to hold up mana for swords, bolt, or pierce or waste. It actually changes the clock by 1 turn.
I like this a lot. It messes up storm more which is always a good thing. I will absolutely be trying this out.
Also a hose against Dredge. Not bad at all.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
We have a lot of those already but yes it sure does.
What are y'alls thoughts on the builds that trim two Wastelands for a Snow-Covered Island, and Snow-Covered Plains? Obviously makes the deck not as volunerable to Stifle and Bloodmoon, but is it worth it?
Also,
I'm assuming they are just Snow-Lands for style, right? Is there an obscure interaction I'm missing?
I don't think it's worth it. The deck is very hungry on colored mana, and it sucks to have your only land in hand be a basic plains. And to answer your second question, I don't think there is an interaction for snow-covered lands.
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