[Primer] Elves!

[danyul]

A nice report was just posted in the Tourney Report thread. Check it out!

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...h-Elves-8-2-14

[Zombie]

I think a "progressive" list would have 1 Llanowar, 3 Heritage/3 Nettle, and 2 Birchlore.

Also, Meekstone is great if Delver decks are a large part of your meta. And I would imagine they are a large part of most metas. With BUG Delver taking over the world, it seems like having one or two Meekstones in the board couldn't hurt. Although that matchup isn't too bad anyways.


Bitterblossom was something Zombie and Julian tried out. I'm not sure what kind of results they got but I think I recall them saying BB was a bit too slow. Packmaster feels like more of a MD card to me. I'm not sure it's worth running as a SB card at all. I was watching that Portland pilot at our local weekly last night (sorry dude, I forgot to ask your name) and he drew a metric butt-ton of cards against a Miracles pilot. It seems worth trying if you expect to see mostly control/fair decks in your area.

And yeah, you will get beat up on by fast combo. That's just the nature of the beast. You can try to mitigate that a bit by running a MD Ruric Thar. But if you aren't seeing fast combo often enough to warrant that, then don't worry about it. You can't beat everything all of the time. Just try to beat most of the stuff, most of the time.

That is what intrigues me about Edric - he's like Packmaster in that he's good against both Delver and Miracles, but is a mana cheaper which counts a lot and draws you into the broken stuff.

Bitterblossom is great. But it's a focused tool that's only truly useful against UW/UB durdly control decks like Esperblade, Miracles and Tezzeret. I still haven't gotten to test it against Delver - all our Delver players seem to have vanished off the face of the Earth. If your meta is dominated by Miracles or Esperblade or the like, sideboard Bitterblossoms are quite amazing.

I agree that Packmaster (and, IMO, Edric) are maindeck cards, although an Edric in the SB seems fine as well. Packmaster is great because of her wide utility in fair matchups - especially hard ones like Miracles and non-BUG Delver. She wins games but she isn't the most impactful card ever. Very typical maindeck material, if you ask me.

So right now I have a Wren's Run Packmaster and Scavenging Ooze main deck. I also run 4 DRS, 1 Llanowar, and 1 Birchlore. What is everyone's opinion on cutting either packmaster or ooze to SB to run one more mana dork (either another llanowar or birchlore)?

Also, can y'all post what SB you'd use? I live in the United States so the SCG metagame generally has more delver decks than miracles/combo like Europe. Burn also seems to be common here as well so i'm considering Ruric Thar. The 2 Surgical Extractions used to be Thoughtseize until I got dumpstered by Reanimator like 17 times in a row online.

My SB is currently:

2 Pithing Needle
1 Progenitus
2 Choke
1 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Natural Order

Opinions? Basically, how would you fine tune my 75 against an American metagame? I feel like my maindeck is a bit clunky, but Wren and Ooze is so good against a lot of fair decks. I just get dumpstered by fast combo decks, but every time I want to use Thoughtseize, i'd rather have Surgical Extraction, and vice versa. I guess I need to get better with Cabal Therapy....

That SB is basically asking to get your ass handed to you by Storm - which is probably an OK point of weakness considering it's America where Storm is heavily underplayed. Still, 3 discard spells seems awfully light.

[Lemnear]

Dunno guys. Will give the Edric idea a spin by the weekend but in theory, splashing blue for a creature dying on every removal in the format while needing several creatures attacking doesn't sound too hot, especially fighting Punishing Fire, Deluge or Terminus as our main issues in the format aside faster combo

[Rook1e]

So I finally traded for all the cards necessary for playing elves and was hoping you guys could help me with a few pointers. But first of all, can someone point me to the latest iteration of Julians build?

As for the pointers, I would love some sideboarding advice against the mainstay decks. Finally, is theres some tips and tricks or 'need to know' interactions etc. that all Elves players should know about that I can't find in the primer?

Thanks a lot!

Rook

[Elfkid]

So I finally traded for all the cards necessary for playing elves and was hoping you guys could help me with a few pointers. But first of all, can someone point me to the latest iteration of Julians build?

As for the pointers, I would love some sideboarding advice against the mainstay decks. Finally, is theres some tips and tricks or 'need to know' interactions etc. that all Elves players should know about that I can't find in the primer?

Thanks a lot!

Rook

I think there is all you need ^^ http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...6248-DTB-Elves!

Have fun elves player!

The tricks...

-Play the Packmaster, in response to the trigger targeting heritage, tap 3 elves (including packmaster and heritage) to add 3 mana and put a wolf
-The typical, symbiote + visionary (vs jitte to evitate put counters there) and the same with dryad and quirion ranger
-Play the glimpse firts if u have a letal hoof or order in hand (they will probably counter it xD)
- Return the Quirion with the simbiote to use again his hability (or to untap 2-3 times the deathrite)
- Birchlore add black mana for DRS activations

I think that "tricks" are very typical... but who cares.. haha


Regards

[danyul]

So I finally traded for all the cards necessary for playing elves and was hoping you guys could help me with a few pointers. But first of all, can someone point me to the latest iteration of Julians build?

As for the pointers, I would love some sideboarding advice against the mainstay decks. Finally, is theres some tips and tricks or 'need to know' interactions etc. that all Elves players should know about that I can't find in the primer?

Thanks a lot!

Rook

Check out Julian's twitter feed. He has MODO screenshots with his test builds in them. His list is always changing. @itsjulian23

Julian's sideboarding guide is in the post directly following the primer. It covers most of the major matchups and should still be very relevant. Just know that sideboarding is one of the most difficult things to learn with this deck.

Compiling a list of all the "tricks" at an Elf pilot's disposal would be a fairly exhausting effort. Mostly you just want to be constantly observant and always look for an advantageous interaction. But I guess if you have never seen an interaction before, that can be difficult. When I get some time I'll start compiling a list of tips and tricks and post it for review. Anybody else is welcome to do that work for me. I'm just thankful the Mirror Entity builds are old tech. Writing a list of tips and tricks for those things would make my head spin.

[Zombie]

Check out Julian's twitter feed. He has MODO screenshots with his test builds in them. His list is always changing. @itsjulian23

Julian's sideboarding guide is in the post directly following the primer. It covers most of the major matchups and should still be very relevant. Just know that sideboarding is one of the most difficult things to learn with this deck.

Compiling a list of all the "tricks" at an Elf pilot's disposal would be a fairly exhausting effort. Mostly you just want to be constantly observant and always look for an advantageous interaction. But I guess if you have never seen an interaction before, that can be difficult. When I get some time I'll start compiling a list of tips and tricks and post it for review. Anybody else is welcome to do that work for me. I'm just thankful the Mirror Entity builds are old tech. Writing a list of tips and tricks for those things would make my head spin.

Haha, Entity builds were a ton of fun though. So many broken things you could do with those. Not to mention the Entity plan was entirely compatible with Grapeshot, gave it that instant kill potential it was usually thought to lack in.

So I finally traded for all the cards necessary for playing elves and was hoping you guys could help me with a few pointers. But first of all, can someone point me to the latest iteration of Julians build?

As for the pointers, I would love some sideboarding advice against the mainstay decks. Finally, is theres some tips and tricks or 'need to know' interactions etc. that all Elves players should know about that I can't find in the primer?

Thanks a lot!

Rook

Apart from the specific guides, the general patterns are like this: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post782167

Taking stuff out is the hardest thing in this deck. Like in any engine deck, it's good to avoid overboarding in more even or favourable matchups like Delver and midrange. The only matchups where very extensive boarding should happen are Miracles and fast combo generally, because they require a gameplan change instead of just tweaking the proactive plan a bit and adding a couple answers to troublesome things.

[trevaftw]

Lands - 18
4 Gaea's cradle
4 verdant catacombs
3 windswept Heath
2 misty rainforest
2 bayou
1 taiga
1 tropical island
1 forest

Spells - 12
4 green sun's zenith
4 natural order
4 glimpse of nature

Creatures - 31
4 elvish visionary
4 wirewood symbiote
4 deathrite shaman
2 dryad arbor
4 quirion ranger
3 heritage Druid
3 nettle sentinel
1 birchlore rangers
1 reclamation sage
1 edric, spymaster of trest
1 wren's run packmaster
1 ruric thar, the unbowed
2 craterhoof behemoth


Sideboard - 15
1 reclamation sage
3 abrupt decay
2 scavenging ooze
1 worldspine wurm
1 progenitus
4 cabal therapy
3 mindbreak trap

Going to try a greedy main deck tonight. Will let you guys know how it goes.

[Zombie]

Lands - 18
4 Gaea's cradle
4 verdant catacombs
3 windswept Heath
2 misty rainforest
2 bayou
1 taiga
1 tropical island
1 forest

Spells - 12
4 green sun's zenith
4 natural order
4 glimpse of nature

Creatures - 31
4 elvish visionary
4 wirewood symbiote
4 deathrite shaman
2 dryad arbor
4 quirion ranger
3 heritage Druid
3 nettle sentinel
1 birchlore rangers
1 reclamation sage
1 edric, spymaster of trest
1 wren's run packmaster
1 ruric thar, the unbowed
2 craterhoof behemoth


Sideboard - 15
1 reclamation sage
3 abrupt decay
2 scavenging ooze
1 worldspine wurm
1 progenitus
4 cabal therapy
3 mindbreak trap

Going to try a greedy main deck tonight. Will let you guys know how it goes.

It's not as greedy as possible! You have to replace Nettle #3 with a Joraga Warcaller!

[danyul]

Finally, is theres some tips and tricks or 'need to know' interactions etc. that all Elves players should know about that I can't find in the primer?

When I get some time I'll start compiling a list of tips and tricks and post it for review. Anybody else is welcome to do that work for me. I'm just thankful the Mirror Entity builds are old tech. Writing a list of tips and tricks for those things would make my head spin.

Basic stuff I jotted down during a meeting that I could have been napping in instead!

These are in no particular order.

DRS - Deathrite Shaman
QR - Quirion Ranger
WS - Wirewood Symbiote
EV - Elvish Visionary
DA - Dryad Arbor

QR + DA, WS + any elf = ground Fog. Just block, before moving to damage, bounce your blocker. This keeps Jitte from gaining counters, Batterskull from giving them life, and your face from getting Goyfed. For added value, use WS to bounce Elvish Visionary to get extra draws. For super added value, use your untaps from QR/WS to target a Phantasmal Image and make your Merfolk opponent cry. We call WS + EV the Best Friends Forever Team.

Also, remember you can use QR/WS on your opponent's turn as well as your turn.

WS + DA/mana dork + Glimpse = a draw engine for when you are OOM (out of mana). Just bounce a guy with WS, untap DA/mana dork, replay guy, draw cards! Rinse and repeat for as many WS as you have on board.

WS + QR = 2x QR activations. If you bounce and replay the QR, the replayed one counts as an entirely new copy. So you can use its ability again.

QR + land drops = you can function fairly well off of very few lands as long as you have a QR in play since you can use a land, bounce it, replay it, and get a second use out of it.

QR + DRS + land = you can get 2 DRS activations during your turn this way.

QR + DA/manadork + land = this jumps you from 2 mana to 4 mana very easily. It's not horrible to play a QR, fetchland, pass, EOT fetch DA in order to make your next turn super sexy. I do this quite often.

WS + Nettle + Heritage + Elf = 5 mana. Tap 3 Elves, bounce Elf with WS, untapping Heritage, replay, untapping Nettle. Boom. You have 3 untapped Elves again for mana fun times. Was that too obvious?

I think most of these are already in the primer.

That's all I got right now. It was a short meeting. Does that help?

Haha, Entity builds were a ton of fun though. So many broken things you could do with those. Not to mention the Entity plan was entirely compatible with Grapeshot, gave it that instant kill potential it was usually thought to lack in.

Yeah, those builds were a lot of fun. I kinda miss them sometimes. Only sometimes.

*GREED LIST*

Be sure to buy a couple lottery tickets too. When greed pays off, it pays off hard.

[ESG]

I was watching that Portland pilot at our local weekly last night (sorry dude, I forgot to ask your name) and he drew a metric butt-ton of cards against a Miracles pilot. It seems worth trying if you expect to see mostly control/fair decks in your area.

You mean this guy? http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=69454

I think Chris is from the Tacoma area.

[danyul]

Yeah that's the guy! I spoke to him briefly and he said his home shop is Exalted Games. I gave him one of my spare Reclamation Sages so he could join the rest of us in Post M15 elves land.

Speaking of which - game day Reclamation Sage or set foil Reclamation Sage? Or is even asking that question a mild form of blasphemy?

[cuthbertthecat]

Yeah that's the guy! I spoke to him briefly and he said his home shop is Exalted Games. I gave him one of my spare Reclamation Sages so he could join the rest of us in Post M15 elves land.

Speaking of which - game day Reclamation Sage or set foil Reclamation Sage? Or is even asking that question a mild form of blasphemy?

Set foil, and yes.

[Bosh N Roll]

A nice report was just posted in the Tourney Report thread. Check it out!

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...h-Elves-8-2-14

Thanks for the bump danyul.

I haven't been active in any online communities for a few years now, but I have to post in this thread since my current list came from ideas shared here.

Specifically I want to talk about Wren's Run Packmaster. That animal is the truth. In my report linked above I mention him winning the game for me against Merfolk, Deathblade, and Shardless BUG. He may actually be more absurd in practice than he is in theory. If there are any holdouts left (I'm not sure how widely adopted this guy has become), you should reconsider.

Also on the blue splash, Swan Song was better than I expected it to be all day. I held out on the white splash longer than I should have, but Reclamation Sage made it easy to finally let go. I didn't play an Edric, and I'm not sure where the room for him would come from, but I think blue is the right sideboard splash so it's possible an Edric to GSZ for is right.

[Lemnear]

Yeah that's the guy! I spoke to him briefly and he said his home shop is Exalted Games. I gave him one of my spare Reclamation Sages so he could join the rest of us in Post M15 elves land.

Speaking of which - game day Reclamation Sage or set foil Reclamation Sage? Or is even asking that question a mild form of blasphemy?

Gameplay Promo altered with FOIL layers by BigUp ...

[Dice_Box]

Game day by a landslide.

I think I need to come back to Elves. I have been playing with all my nice new duals, but my meta has shifted to (no joke) 25% DnT and only 3 real combo decks. Jund is dead, so it is TA and Goblins I have to deal with. I want to tear this up. Will grab a few new Sages on the weekend and let you know how I go making DnT players cry. Good god I hate that deck so much. Kills me when I do not get Empty fast enough.

[Lemnear]

Game day by a landslide.

I think I need to come back to Elves. I have been playing with all my nice new duals, but my meta has shifted to (no joke) 25% DnT and only 3 real combo decks. Jund is dead, so it is TA and Goblins I have to deal with. I want to tear this up. Will grab a few new Sages on the weekend and let you know how I go making DnT players cry. Good god I hate that deck so much. Kills me when I do not get Empty fast enough.

Isn't that the reason you have both decks? To switch and kick asses from another angle? ;D

PS: I love to play against D&T with storm. Still X-0 in matches.

[Julian23]

game day Reclamation Sage or set foil Reclamation Sage?

You people drunk? "Promo" is the definition of unpimp. It's also been proven that you will draw the regular set foil more often in critical situations. /r/theydidthemath

[Dice_Box]

But that set card is so dam ugly. The Promo is like a wonderfully attractive British woman, ok, she doesn't tan as well as an exotic Spanish girl, but what does that matter if she is twice as cute?

[bigup]

Gameplay Promo altered with FOIL layers by BigUp ...

feel free to send one to me :)
i would like to put the foil frame of a regular one on the promo just using the promos picture