Well, does anyone else run bolt? :)Originally Posted by twndomn
If no one uses it, of course it does not get into the top8.
Short list of early game plays that bolt does not kill: Nimble mongoose (plow has no effect either), tarmogoyf.
That is where the list ends? Main problem would be fetching red mana instead of white.
I like the "how to play against archetype x" approach. Independent from card choices and list specifics, mainly focusing on general strategy to tackle a certain matchup.. Very nice. I think a lot of Legacy articles on SCG (barring Carsten) has been restating the obvious and over elaborating on individual card choices for a while so it's nice to read something that you can actually take away some wisdom from. Hope you do a midrange one after combo and mirror.
Legacy: Rituals
Vintage: Drains
I think you did a great job of explaining sideboard philosophies for each matchup. You also made a good case for the changes you made to the stock list.
That being said, it seemed like you misrepresented the version Joe runs (obviously the 1 Clique and 1 Karakas you ran didn't pair up ever), while glossing over the stock list that you and the majority of Miracles players actually top 8'd with. Not that you actually had the space to do much more than explain the choices for your style of the deck, but I kind of expect more generic strategy from an article called "The Miracles Primer". Drew Levin's article from years past had an awkward format, but focused more on tactics than apologetics for card choices and sideboarding.
EDIT: I feel the other primer you wrote was actually better.
Fetching red mana is awful early game, enough that Bolt isn't playable. If you draw that in your opening hand more than once at this tournament you'll be ready to cut it.
Not good. With 21 lands you can't run a basic mountain. You have only 17 lands that produce blue mana for Ponder.
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But what clique does not do, that bolt does does, is both provide an answer to early creatures as well as being good against planeswalkers.
Lets break the problem down:
Fetching nonbasics early: problem vs. wasteland decks. Equal problem for red and white.
Fetching non-blue basic lands: White is more important for the deck over all, but i don't think the strain from fetching a mountain would really be that much bigger than the strain from fetching plains. Only entreat costs double white, and i would postulate that casting it for 1 angel is rarely the right play. By turn 4 you could easily have 1 plains, 1 mountain and 2 islands, enough mana to support almost any play.
I would also add that there are very few creatures which *MUST* be dealt with turn 1. As Einherjer states in his primer, it is rarely correct to attempt to murder delver turn 1.
I would also postulate that against decks where i absolutely need to kill a creature turn 1, double blue is not needed until much later. Making it easier to support fetching a mountain.
My problem here is that i have experienced being cut off from red entirely multiple times, even with 3 volcanic islands. The only solution is basic mountain. Perhaps 1 plains could be cut to make room for another island, but the chance of not seeing blue is quite small, i can do the calculation if you really want to know how slim the chance of not seeing blue is. An alternate solution is to run 1 basic mountain in the sideboard, but that puts strain on the sideboard.
Your article is great man. I really hope you get the chance to write about sfm and other midrange strategies.
No, that's not true. You honestly should just play the lightning bolt and fetch mountain on turn 1 so you see what people mean. Basic plains is perfectly acceptable. Basic mountain is Darksteel Citadel.
Don't worry. I am going to. I will of course report back if i ever faced any issue at all with the bolt. (Which won't happen)
And for the record: i am not running basic mountain because of lightning bolt. I am running basic mountain because i experience getting cut out of red by wasteland in post-SB games.
Edit: You highlighted the wrong part i think?
My mistake, I misread and thought you were fetching basic mountain for turn 2 bolt or something like that.
If your justification of running bolt is to provide answer to EARLY creatures, then you need to commit to that plan by running at least 3 Bolts, not 1. Having 1 Bolt and try to pretend you can deal with early creature is... unrealistic, just from the mathematical stand point.
There're only a few early creatures that would require immediately removal, mostly Dark Confidant. I question the motivation to use Bolts as creature removal as a whole, since you run Terminus for that already. When you commit 4 slots for mass-removal and at least 3 slots for targeted removal like StP, do you really want more? Hence, Bolt becomes planeswalker push-back, doesn't even kill it most of time. When something is that unreliable at planeswalker removal, overly skewed toward Vial decks, and de-stabilize Mana base, I feel it's there for all the wrong reasons.
Great job Philipp. Really well writen, I like your thought process behind the use of your sb.
StP kills everything Bolt kills. You could catch a Jace out with it, you could also just die to a Germ token and Wastelands.
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
"please play lightning bolt" --tarmogoyf
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This!
Congrats to another Miracles player who won another trophy at SCG Open. Furthermore, both trophy-winning Miracles players run at least one Ponder and 4 StP build. The non-Lossett build got it done.
Congratulations to Sam Roukas, the first to win an SCG Open with a good Miracle list, including 21 lands and 4 Ponder. This isn't just a Non-Legendary-Build, this is the good Ponder build. I am happy that it isn't only winning Europe, but also in America. Keep it up, guys!
Greetings
So, has spell pierce definitely left the collective miracle mainboard? I've been really wanting to cut my 2 pierces lately, but I somehow can't get myself to actually do it. I know I'm having some amount of bias, since I know how often Pierce becomes useless (or just gets pitched to Force), but they still give me this cozy feeling of safety. Especially against BUG decks, where hymns and lilianas can be super annoying.
I have always been a fan of your lists over the alternatives, but I wouldn't dismiss them entirely. They do have their merits.
Any thoughts on the Stoneforge package? I've somehow had more problems against Burn than pretty much any other deck in the format, and I am seriously considering dedicating three slots to addressing that problem (while still being useful against the likes of Merfolk and Goblins).
Just a short answer as I am trying to set up the stream for tonights Daily Event at 8 pm. Fucking Webcam won't appear as an option and the music doesn't obey too :D
So, Stoneforge Mystic and Batterskull is a valid approach for the sideboard. It improves a couple of MUs but doesn't really help with many of the very hard MUs. It isn't in-line with my philosophy of converging all the MUs to the 50% mark but improves MU that have already reached or succeeded the 50% mark while not helping with stuff like Sneak Attack. I have not found a great way to include this trio in my sideboard, but I am working on it. I hope that I will reach a good solution for GP NJ, but as of now I can't really propose a good SFM-Sideboard for my 4Ponder list, but I am confident that I will be able to do that in some time.
Greetings
Please try to save a video file in the archive for those of us in the United States who can't justify pulling an all-nighter to watch your stream!
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