[Primer/Deck] Pox

[jimmythegreek]

Yeah i think this rack version is heading in a great direction. The list is definately tight.. i agree it would be tough to get an abyss in there.. but I'd love to get an abyss (more of a love for nostalgia of it).. but yeah a tabernacle in there would be hot. I may have to do some selling to pick one up

Lets face it....most people win magic through attacking with creatures, lets turn that option off all together. So you want to storm me out, this deck directly attacks the hand and actually wins through that process. As long as we can find a rack or affliction all should go to plan.

[FTW]

So everyone is playing 8Rack now? No love for traditional Pox?

Has anyone gotten Waste Not to "work"?

[Chatto]

So everyone is playing 8Rack now? No love for traditional Pox?

I can't speak for everybody, but I just like to test the 8Rack-version. Seems like it could work and apart from a minor investment I have all the cards lying around. Still love for Traditional Pox here, just like to try all Pox-varieties

Has anyone gotten Waste Not to "work"?

Proxied it, did some minor testing but didn't like it. It seems like everytime it hits the field, it's a turn after the additional 'discard-onslaught'. Seems like Waste Not does not have the impact you would like it to have. I can't think of any decklist or of people who made it work.

[zenitramleirdag]

So everyone is playing 8Rack now? No love for traditional Pox?

Has anyone gotten Waste Not to "work"?

i'm still on mono black, the prison variant..

how about you?


i've considered waste not, but my list is too tight right now that I wouldn't know what to remove for it..

[OmniStrata]

So everyone is playing 8Rack now? No love for traditional Pox?

Has anyone gotten Waste Not to "work"?

The inherent problem with Waste Not is that it doesn't do anything by itself. Unless you have Liliana on the field AND your opponent has cards stuck in their hand (cause you sinkholed them), Waste Not doesn't strengthen the top deck. You are also inclined to cast Waste Not first INSTEAD OF disrupting the snot out of them early game.

Don't pull the Dark Ritual + Waste Not + Inquisition argument. We're on the card by itself. The stronger each individual card is, the better off we are. If we have to jam our opponent's hand with cards (sinkhole) AND have Liliana on the field AND have discard spells in our hand, I think Waste Not is sadly, a waste.

I'm not running 8 rack. I love Sinkhole/Wasteland Pox too much. The rack also has the tendency to be 'played around' by smart players. On the other hand, one can't Pithing Needle Rack. However, Rack can't kill threats.

[OmniStrata]

Plague Boiler is a fun card. For even grindier decks than Pernicious Deed. In a Loam build you could even use Buried Ruin to Plague Boiler ad infinitum. Killing your own Lillies could be a problem there, plus Loam builds usually use Mox Diamond rather than Ritual for acceleration, and that would need to change as well to use Boiler or Deed.

Suicide Lily has been worth it for me. Used her -2 to kill a threat while she loses all loyalty counters. In this case, we won't cast boiler unless something VERY problematic has to be dealt with, like Pithing Needles + Counterbalance with a fatty like Tarmogoyf or something staring us down. We'd likely side it out vs. Golgari color decks due to Abrupt Decay but I'll get to testing it in my meta some time. Also if we want to wipe the board and let Mishra's factories carry us home.

[sarahiscute]

waste not just increased in price, small pox 8th place:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=71385

[Rivfader]

Second place, 31 people tournament with eight rack.

Enchantments:
4 shrieking affliction

Sorceries:
3 innocent blood
1 ravens crime
4 thoughtseize
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 hymn to tourach
4 smallpox
2 pox

Artifacts:
4 the rack
4 ensnaring bridge

Planeswalker:
4 liliana of the veil

Lands 22:
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3 buried ruin
16 swamp

First off I must say that the list is a bit all over the place due to it being my second choice deck and not having time to put together a more optimal list. I honestly went Iin with intentions of maybe stealing a game or two, I mean come on, its mono black discard...........right? Holy crap I rolled everything from delver decks to omni-tell to death and taxes and even slivers, losses were to the same miracles player in swiss and final (damn you jace and counter-balance). My local gaming store has some really quality players, these were no scrubs. Im looking to optimize this list because I trully believe that eight rack effects with discard is a potential contender and can really crush unprepared decks. Mvps were lilianna, small pox and main deck bridges......pox was really lackluster as was buried ruin. I would really appreciate comments and appologize for the lack of report, ihave high hopes for this creatureless version of pox!

Ps. No sideboard to speak of ( had like one infest and four leyline of the void day of), would appreciate help there as well. My local meta is all over the place but mostly tier one decks.

Nice result, and nice take on pox!

I think I would splash some green for a loam/entomb/raven's crime package, instead of the bigpoxes.
And change the ruins into wastelands, if you pack loam.

I can imagine a chalice on one, or a leyline of sanctity ruins your day. Having access to green, I would pack Krosan Grips (also good against that Miracles matchup).
And definitely some surgical extractions/extirpates as gravehate, but also against control and combo along all the discard.

Regards-Rivfader


Edit: also with nether spirit to entomb for, you have something to stall against aggro if necessary, until you draw bridge

[bonkotsu]

waste not just increased in price, small pox 8th place:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=71385

Hello, this is my deck actually. I am tweaking the sideboard greatly. My only bad match was against Death and Taxes, player who took second was my only loss before top 8 and in top 8 and also a good friend. I am putting in a Tabernacle main board, putting chains side, and putting in massacre, perish, null rod, and pithing needle side.

[Chatto]

Hello, this is my deck actually. I am tweaking the sideboard greatly. My only bad match was against Death and Taxes, player who took second was my only loss before top 8 and in top 8 and also a good friend. I am putting in a Tabernacle main board, putting chains side, and putting in massacre, perish, null rod, and pithing needle side.

Hi Bonkotsu, welcome! Congrats on your results. Perhaps you can give us some insight on your deck? How did Waste Not perform? What were your MU's?

[bonkotsu]

Hi Bonkotsu, welcome! Congrats on your results. Perhaps you can give us some insight on your deck? How did Waste Not perform? What were your MU's?

Sure thing. Thank you! I have been doing hit and miss with affinity combo in legacy so I swapped it up. I did not make the sideboard at all unfortunately, I may have been able to do better with some changes. Firstly Bloodghast. I much prefer it over Nether spirit. Being able to come back off of land drops is amazing, especially if Crucible is out. Rack vs Cursed scroll, most games I have my opponent at 0 or 1 cards early on, having 2 Racks out just devastates. Cursed scroll being a single works fine for me personally. Chains main.... so I thought I would be playing more blue today.... Raven's Crime was a waste for me, I dont like it and I plan on subbing it for Zenith or Damnation. Then there is Waste Not. I loved this card the minute it was spoiled. Yes it costs two mana and technically does nothing right away, but neither does this deck. This deck literally just sits there and kills stuff waiting and waiting for 1 of its 2 win conditions. Bloodghast, rack, cursed scroll, and man lands work well, but what if every Liliana tick up or Hymn or Inquisition produced draw power, mana, or dudes? I love it personally. Mind you I think 4 is a horrible idea and two is just too weak. I wont play with less or more than 3.

Sorry for that wall of text starting out. On to my matches!

Round 1 : Death and Taxes (2nd place Phil Gallagher) Loss
His deck is much more aggro than control and grind. He plays more aggressive with this version and I just couldnt do anything vs him. Game 2 RIP hit the board so my poor Spinning Darkness did nothing.

Rount 2 : Dredge Win
This was an easy game. Waste not easily got there, then after sideboard I got Leyline out and proceeded to just control out the board.

Round 3 : RUG Delver Win
This game was almost as easy as Dredge oddly. Got rid of counterspells early, kept them off of lands and proceeded to man land and rack them down. I cant remember anything significant about this match oddly.

Round 4 : Junk Win
I was pretty worried about Goyfs, Abrupt Decay, and the draw from Confidant. Goyf got fat fast obviously but Liliana, Smallpox, and Innocent Blood kept them from ever getting a swing in.

Round 5 : Death and Taxes (different player) Win
This was a stars aligned kind of match. Turn 1 Ritual into Lili. Turn 2 Waste Not, Lili to discard a Ghast. After that it was chain discard and he conceded. Game 2 I ritual into Lili turn 1 again and he rage quits and concedes.

Top 8 : Death and Taxes (Phill Gallagher) Loss
Sigh... against his version I felt helpless. I was confident in my other matches but facing him AGAIN and in the top 8... just meh.

[Chatto]

This deck literally just sits there and kills stuff waiting and waiting for 1 of its 2 win conditions. Bloodghast, rack, cursed scroll, and man lands work well, but what if every Liliana tick up or Hymn or Inquisition produced draw power, mana, or dudes? I love it personally. Mind you I think 4 is a horrible idea and two is just too weak. I wont play with less or more than 3.

I understand the reason for the inclusion of Waste Not, and you mentioned some valid points, however the real questions I like to have answered are the following:

Did in any of your MU's where you got Waste Not online, you had the feeling that it could be replaced by some other card? Did you had the feeling Waste Not shined in this particularly Pox-shell? Of course, your 8th place says a lot, but let's just hypothesize for a moment So, basically, what are the pros and cons according to you for running Waste Not?

[bonkotsu]

I understand the reason for the inclusion of Waste Not, and you mentioned some valid points, however the real questions I like to have answered are the following:

Did in any of your MU's where you got Waste Not online, you had the feeling that it could be replaced by some other card? Did you had the feeling Waste Not shined in this particularly Pox-shell? Of course, your 8th place says a lot, but let's just hypothesize for a moment So, basically, what are the pros and cons according to you for running Waste Not?

The only time I regret Waste Not is when my opponent is hellbent. I just finished Sunday Legacy and I actually took them out for Massacre vs Death and Taxes aggro again. Certain games I wished it was an Ensnaring Bridge. Or even some form of board wipe (against Death and Taxes).

Pros:
Free dudes, card draw which is rough in mono black without the cost of life, and sometimes the free mana. Your opponent can miss play heavy discarding a land and letting you hymn them with the mana produced. Storm and Dredge running LEDs give you tons of free cards. Tonight my opponent playing storm was going to go off, I had 2 Waste Nots in play, he Ad Nasuem down to 1, and after discarding for LED I drew a bunch into my Mindbreak Trap.

Lili makes the card loads better. Every turn generating mana, draw, or a zombie has made Waste Not feared at my LGS.

Cons:
Obviously if your opponent stays hellbent then the card is useless. Your opponent can easily discard things that do nothing for you in creating zombies or mana. Depends on the player and match.

Overall:
I really do like the card. Is my version better than a "normal" pox deck? I can't answer that. Regular pox seems to just sit there with Nether Void out swinging for 2 here and there and not really doing anything. This version I guess is a bit more interactive in the sense you are "doing more" per turn. That being said I am fitting in Tabernacle and Nether Void to test out for GP NJ. I would love to fit in Sinkholes somehow. Too many players will play around my Wastelands. I kind of want to play Thoughtseize too but I do hate the life loss since I have so much already.

Advice:
I am new to Pox, yet I love it! I would love to hear any thoughts about the deck to help me as a player get better piloting it. I have it with me for modern and standard weekly tournaments and always legacy sundays. I want to grind out as much testing as humanly possible so that I am prepared for my next big tournament. The 31st I am attending another IQ so wish me luck!

[Hardcore]

Damage/loss of life is irrelevant as long as you win your games. For example; in my last tourney I won one duel vs burn by playing big pox twice (he lost to the rack).
Thoughtseize is fine untily you notice you lose games to it. Go playtest!

[theillest]

bonkotsu, thanks for the report and congrats on the finish. Did you ever bring out the contamination plan from the board?

[bonkotsu]

Damage/loss of life is irrelevant as long as you win your games. For example; in my last tourney I won one duel vs burn by playing big pox twice (he lost to the rack).
Thoughtseize is fine untily you notice you lose games to it. Go playtest!

I like you, sir

[bonkotsu]

bonkotsu, thanks for the report and congrats on the finish. Did you ever bring out the contamination plan from the board?

Thank you. No, never did. It got pitched after the tourny.

[lyracian]

Thank you. No, never did. It got pitched after the tourny.

Congratulation on your finish; care to share your current board? Have you thought of using Cabal Therapy?
Also do you know how many players were at the event?

Also, in no way trying to downplay your finish, Prison Pox made top 8 at the other SCG Qualifier last week -
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=71238

[bonkotsu]

Congratulation on your finish; care to share your current board? Have you thought of using Cabal Therapy?
Also do you know how many players were at the event?

Also, in no way trying to downplay your finish, Prison Pox made top 8 at the other SCG Qualifier last week -
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=71238

31 players or 33. My current board keeps changing. I am current still using 3 Leyline and 3 Engineered Plague. I have been trying minbreak and a 1 or 2 of, pithing needle, null rod, massacre and the such.

I saw that list actually and love the sideboard. It is much more traditional pox. I do plan on fitting in a Zenith main and Nether Void. Really wish i could use the sinkholes but Waste Not is currently taking its place right now.

[Myelectronicdays]

31 players or 33. My current board keeps changing. I am current still using 3 Leyline and 3 Engineered Plague. I have been trying minbreak and a 1 or 2 of, pithing needle, null rod, massacre and the such.

I saw that list actually and love the sideboard. It is much more traditional pox. I do plan on fitting in a Zenith main and Nether Void. Really wish i could use the sinkholes but Waste Not is currently taking its place right now.

any thought about squeezing an abyss in there? or is it overkill and better to just have in the sb? the list seems tight enough as it is.