You can't do other interaction then draw 7 times. Like draw, draw, draw, draw, draw, draw, draw. The only thing is replace each draw by dredge. And do that for each draw induvidually. But no interference until the draw seven is completely resolved. You can, however, choose to return a dredger to your hand that was put in the graveyard during a previous draw from the same resolving draw 7.Originally Posted by eao
I haven't heard of or seen Manaless posting results lately, and I have been on a summer-long hiatus from MTG myself. Is everyone still pushing the deck?
DDD / Death & Taxes
Yeah, still playing this beast, but switching to LED-Dredge from time to time. Also took a summerbreak from Magic. When I play Manaless I try to improve the version with FoW and Shoal against RiP/Storm.
Still playing, just nothing new to report
Still working on my list from last page, hoping to take it to some (fairly small) tournaments in late August/September so will hopefully have some news then
I am glad to hear that from both of you! I am looking forward to trying out the blue variant starting in September. I plan to dabble with LEDredge after a few more months of strictly playing Manaless.
Shade909: any length report of the upcoming tournament would be much appreciated.
DDD / Death & Taxes
Just a question in general: I see what game 2/3 strategies e for siding in stuff, but I fail to spot easy siding-out cards. The main-deck seems to be pretty rigid. E.g. if you want to side in Shoals, what would you take out? So much in this deck seems mandatory to play. And getting a list over 60 cards only makes it harder to get to those cards.
It depends on the version you're playing. If you're following the Griselbrand route, then board out the combo pieces and you'll find 8 free slots for your backup armory.
16 blue cards are enough.
TEAM MtG Berlin
"Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."
It depends on your list. For example: I am playing with 4 Maindeck Chancellor of the Annex to have another out against a turn 1 Deathrite. When I am boarding FoW and Shoal to fight Rest in Peace I tend to take out the Chancellors first, then maybe some number of Dread Returns, maybe the Flayer. Sometimes I cut one Nether Shadow if I really need the slots. Against Storm, where Chancellors and Countermagic are good I take out the Shadows first most of the time, because they thend to be too slow. Like the poster before me wrote: It all depends on your list and the particular MU.
Cheers.
Mmm interesting points, specifically the Dread Returns. I'm still figuring out how to get Chancellors in the blue version of the deck, if possible at all. It feels kind of wanting-it-all.
Hey, I want it all is a nice Queen-Song, so there is nothing bad about it. ;)
It's not that hard. Just play the defensive stuff in the board, when your meta is more DRS-Style-Decks.
4 FoW
4 Shoal
7 Something (Faeries come to mind, DR-Targets [Elesh, Ashen Rider], Traps, Leylines, Contagion or Sickening Shoals)...all depends on the expected meta.
Maindeck something like this:
15 Dredgers minimum
4 Ichorid
4 Nether Shadows
4 Phanta
4 Bridge
4 Therapy
4 Narcomoebas
4 Chancellor
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Dread Return
3 Whirlpool Rider / Griselbrand (I'm not disapppointed with Riders in Blue builds but meffeo seems to have another PoV, nice report btw)
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Wraith
1 Free Slot for cute Stuff (maybe a singleton from your Sideboard to open space or random FoW, or the 16th Dredger, nothing is set in stone)
Cheers and greetinx.
EDIT: If you decide to go the Blue Griselbrand-Route don't play your FoW's main. Noone should expect it from the SB then. Whirlpool Rider signals FoW pretty well.
Well, it's not a tournament report, but a turn-2 kill! I couldn't not share the fun
Playing against a Knight of the Reliquary brew of a friend's. He says he wants to see how effective Knight+Bojuka Bog is against my deck (list for ref). I resolve to not let him play one.
I win the roll and give him the play
Look at my hand, seems alright, got a dredger (was either an Imp or GGT, I drew the other as my 8th), a Shifting Wall, a Street Wraith and some non-cards
First turns fly by, he plays a fetch, I discard a GGT.
End of his second turn (he played a Bob), I dredge the GGT I discarded using street wraith, revealing:
2 Bridge from Below
1 Whirlpool Rider
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Dread Return
1 Nether Shadow
We have a quick laugh about my lack of dredgers (or...anything), and I draw my card for the turn. A second Shifting Wall (much love to the top of my deck)
Played both walls for 0, netting me 4 zombies. Proceed to go off, dread returning Whirlpool Rider, ending in Flayer-Combo kill. (If I hadn't known his deck I could have Cabal Therapy'd before going off, either way still had enough zombies!)
This set-up is brilliant, notch up 1 more turn-2 goldfish
I was watching some manaless dredge footage, and saw Joe losset (miracles) play against Jermey Kacprzak (manaless dredge). Joe has a clique in play en Jeremy combos with balustrade spy. He has three narcomoebas in play and four bridges in the yard. He sacrifices the three narcomoebas to dread return. At this point, joe casts a second clique, killing his first one and thus triggering the bridges (to remove them). Some discussion ensues and in the end the bridges are removed and the dread return resolves. Joe Plows the flayer and proceeds to win the game.
My question is this. When Jeremy sacrifices his narcomoebas, shouldn't 12 (3 narcomoebas x 4 bridges) triggers for a token be placed on the stack? Even though Joe responds with his Vendilion Clique, the triggers are on the stack, right? If that's the case, Jeremy would have 12 additional zombies.
Bridge triggers check on resolution. This: "if Bridge from Below is in your graveyard" is the important text. It means that even if the trigger is on the stack, it won't put a zombie into play unless Bridge is in your graveyard when the trigger resolves.
Of course. I thought I missed something. Thanks!
I'm still trying to understand some of the nuances but how did you go off DR-ing the Whirlpool Rider? I'm not sure I understand how you went from the whirlpool rider to dredging the Flayer-Combo into your graveyard?
Maybe he therapied himself first for GGT/Imp to ensure to have a dredger in the yard. But even without this, it is too much of a corner case to be relevant at all. At least to me. Sorry, I'm not sold on the Marauder/Wall-Plan.
So what he does is first draw, discard (a GGT), dredge with street wraith. That's how he gets his dredger in his graveyard.
But your actual question as to hoe he goes from reanimating whirlpool rider --> combo combo: you put whirlpool rider into play, shuffle your hand into your library, and draw that many cards. He apparently still had dredgers in his graveyard, so he continued dredging (instead of "drawing that many cards" he probably "dredged for that many card draws"). With all that dredging and all, he probably got another two Dread Returns in his graveyard together with Flayer & GGT. Happens quite often when you have a whirlpool rider with a decently sized hand, tbh.
I'm not really sold on the X creatures either. To me, the strength of this deck (and also what makes it so hard to improve it) is all the synergy: there are very, very few cards that are really useless in the graveyard. You either want to Dread Return them, they are a good target for Ichorid, they are dredgers, Phantasmagasm... Force of Will, Street Wraith, and Gitaxian Probe are totally worth that - the X creatures haven't really been that to me...
Most of th time this is the case, but in the given example he whiffed on Dredgers and drew a X-creature. His yard was Wraith, 2 Bridge, Therapy, Shadow, Dread Return, Rider. No way to dredge with Rider before therapying himself.
Sorry guys, was at work when I posted this, and my memory is awful. I messed up!
Have just texted my friend and confirmed, I did indeed therapy GGT back to yard, though to be honest I really don't even remember it...guess I should have read my post to see if what I was saying was possible!
I know it's only early in testing (and my poor reporting/playing may turn many off it...), but I'm really enjoying the X creatures, and I genuinely believe they speed up the first game enough to be worth the switch.
However, I'm thinking that maybe it would be better using Balustrade Spy or Grisel, in which case would require my list moving away from Whirlpool and possibly blue sb which is something I really want to keep (I'm more set on Forces than X creatures) so just want to ask:
How many people have run the FOW/Shoal setup without running whirlpool rider?
If you have, how reliable did you find getting active forces/shoal was?
And how often did you draw a force or shoal, no other blue and a spy/grisel and think sad thoughts?
Serious question: Why do you think you need to increase your Game1 percentages by speeding up the deck with 0/0-dorks?
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