[Deck] Imperial Painter

[phoenix4]

= karn ultimate

I once played against MUD, had a Painter's Servant naming blue and the idiot played All is Dust xD

[jandax]

oh, that's a good one! will remember it for the matchup

[phoenix4]

oh, that's a good one! will remember it for the matchup

I laughed so hard when he did it :D

[drude1]

I've played this matchup quite a bit. If you learn nothing else from this post, learn this: stop trying to do a 3-card combo. It's much too slow and the gameplan is completely ineffective. Side out your moons and your grindstones, and bring in everything you can - I'll bet that you don't have 8 cards which are immediately applicable, but I'm sure a lot of stuff has splash value.

Your plan has two key elements. The first is to slow the opponent down and just be annoying. The second is to get Jaya into play ASAP. Once you get Jaya into play, you have the freedom to develop other game plans which might seem too slow or simply not great. That's ok. Jaya by herself is enough of an issue to buy you a lot of time.

As I mentioned, the other part of your game plan is to simply be annoying as you can. Thorn of amethyst and ethersworn canonist excel at this, but you have more you can be doing. Using your REBs on Brainstorm and Ponder can be quite effective (plus if your opponent is playing defense grid, you're not going no to want to try to keep up double REB at all times anyway). Another thing you can do is to go even more all-in on plan Jaya - after you get her into play, try to get a Painter into play and start blasting lands. That deck never wants to have more than 4 land in play, so it can be easy to lock them out of a game this way (especially with Thorn).

Play Jaya, be annoying, and don't try to combo.

I agree with this to some degree. A lot of times we are on dork beat down mode and Jaya shines in the matchup. The thing is though, grindstones can act like a sensei's top if you have welders out. I have won plenty of games where I grindstone a bridge into the yard and then weld it in. I have also done that with tormod's crypt as well. In fact, I've played a couple games where I have 2 welders and the combo out but know they have Emrakul. I will grindstone myself, to put the one crypt in the yard, weld in the one crypt from the yard and then weld in another grindstone and combo them out. You can obviously do this with one welder and 2 grindstones as well. But this why I would definitely play at least one tormod's crypt in your graveyard hate package. Also, if you play the RIP/helm combo, remember that you don't need the rip for the helm to be good. If it hits a creature you get it. Nothing like stealing their spaghetti monster FTW!


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[jandax]

These two were helpful, good posts.

[The Duressed]

An important point which underlies each of those (very valid) responses is that you need to keep your eyes open for all potential minor, incremental advantages and usages of each and every one of your spells. Nothing is ever 100% dead; make sure to find every tiny way to advance your game plan.

[zzregz]

My budget deck "Paint and Gamble"


4 painter's servant
3 simian spirit guide
1 spellskite
3 goblin welder
1 magus of the moon
1 jaya ballard, task mage
(13 creature)

4 gamble
3 lightning bolt
4 pyroblast
2 red elemantal blast
2 lotus petal
3 sensei's divining top
4 blood moon
4 grindstone
2 ensnaring bridge
(28 other spell)

4 ancient tomb
2 city of traitors
3 arid mesa
2 great furnace
8 mountain
(19 land?)

3 thorn of amethyst
1 ratchet bomb
2 pyroclasm
2 red elemental blast
1 shaterring spree
1 ensnaring bridge
1 magus of the moon
1 koth of the hammer
1 trinisphere
1 tomod's crypt
1 pithing needle
(15 sideboard)


What do you think?

[pinkfrosting]

My budget deck "Paint and Gamble"


4 painter's servant
3 simian spirit guide
1 spellskite
3 goblin welder
1 magus of the moon
1 jaya ballard, task mage
(13 creature)

4 gamble
3 lightning bolt
4 pyroblast
2 red elemantal blast
2 lotus petal
3 sensei's divining top
4 blood moon
4 grindstone
2 ensnaring bridge
(28 other spell)

4 ancient tomb
2 city of traitors
3 arid mesa
2 great furnace
8 mountain
(19 land?)

3 thorn of amethyst
1 ratchet bomb
2 pyroclasm
2 red elemental blast
1 shaterring spree
1 ensnaring bridge
1 magus of the moon
1 koth of the hammer
1 trinisphere
1 tomod's crypt
1 pithing needle
(15 sideboard)


What do you think?

I would cut spellskite for a fourth welder. Gamble is a risky card, and you don't want to use it any later than turn 1-2 to get your second combo piece. You can't really run a small creature tutor package of one-of's like spellskite safely. Maximizing welders is important with this build. With a welder on the field, you can topdeck gamble with an empty hand and instead of it being useless it puts a welder target in your yard.

[Tiago]

Hey guys.. I just finished to build the deck. Yesterday the recruiters arrived!!

I need a explanation about the match against sneak and tell. I read some articles but i didnt understand.. If I tap grindstone and I have a painter on the field, what the fuck happen, considering my oponent have 4 emrakull in his deck!?

[drude1]

I would cut spellskite for a fourth welder. Gamble is a risky card, and you don't want to use it any later than turn 1-2 to get your second combo piece. You can't really run a small creature tutor package of one-of's like spellskite safely. Maximizing welders is important with this build. With a welder on the field, you can topdeck gamble with an empty hand and instead of it being useless it puts a welder target in your yard.

Exactly. One of Jaya and magus aren't good without recruiters. You definitely need 4 welders and at least 3 tops.


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[cab0747]

Hey guys.. I just finished to build the deck. Yesterday the recruiters arrived!!

I need a explanation about the match against sneak and tell. I read some articles but i didnt understand.. If I tap grindstone and I have a painter on the field, what the fuck happen, considering my oponent have 4 emrakull in his deck!?

Well... The Emrakul triggers will all go on the stack and then their GY will be shuffled back into their non-existant library!

G1, you cannot combo. You have to hope for the best and go with the beatdown plan. G2 and G3 you have Tormod's Crypt and Rest in Peace to help you combo.

Ensnaring bridge goes a long way in that MU.

[Tiago]

Well... The Emrakul triggers will all go on the stack and then their GY will be shuffled back into their non-existant library!

G1, you cannot combo. You have to hope for the best and go with the beatdown plan. G2 and G3 you have Tormod's Crypt and Rest in Peace to help you combo.

Ensnaring bridge goes a long way in that MU.

But what is the better option? Try to combo in g2 and g3 or take off the grindstones and try to win with jaya or something else? like koth.

[Dice_Box]

You can make that choice yourself, but if you put the combo on the table, you can hit yourself with it EOT and Weld in the Grave hate, then go again when you untap.

The other option is to switch to the Helm/Rip Combo. I run it in the side because it removes the need to use a Creature and that can be an issue locally. But it is a huge space hog in the side so that's really a personal choice.

[Tiago]

And somebody could tell me why nobody use Surgical Extracion? Isnt better than tormods crypt?

[Dice_Box]

It's not useful once it ends up in the grave, you can not play it for free and then use it for Welder fodder, it can be counted and then its dead to you and the card costs life, something that can pile up with some of your lands already hitting you for 2 a tap.

Also, there are tricks like Milling your own Library into the grave to find shit you need that you just can not do with a spell.

[UnsungHero]

It's not useful once it ends up in the grave, you can not play it for free and then use it for Welder fodder, it can be counted and then its dead to you and the card costs life, something that can pile up with some of your lands already hitting you for 2 a tap.

Also, there are tricks like Milling your own Library into the grave to find shit you need that you just can not do with a spell.

You can also crypt your own yard to protect your painters (or anything else) from being completely removed, in response to your opponent casting surgical. Doesn't come up a lot , but it can certainly help.

[oliverpool]

I agree with this to some degree. A lot of times we are on dork beat down mode and Jaya shines in the matchup. The thing is though, grindstones can act like a sensei's top if you have welders out. I have won plenty of games where I grindstone a bridge into the yard and then weld it in. I have also done that with tormod's crypt as well. In fact, I've played a couple games where I have 2 welders and the combo out but know they have Emrakul. I will grindstone myself, to put the one crypt in the yard, weld in the one crypt from the yard and then weld in another grindstone and combo them out. You can obviously do this with one welder and 2 grindstones as well. But this why I would definitely play at least one tormod's crypt in your graveyard hate package. Also, if you play the RIP/helm combo, remember that you don't need the rip for the helm to be good. If it hits a creature you get it. Nothing like stealing their spaghetti monster FTW!


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I agree somewhat that in this matchup, beat downs and bridge is more relevant and likely to work. But just saying,

Yesterday i won the third game with a turn two kill (opponent conceded). My opening hand was city, tomb, painter, grindstone, guide, REB, crypt! Wow... can you beat that! haa.

Turn one tomb and painter. Turn 2 city Crypt then grindstone. Oppo cast force and I blasted with my guide-> REB. That was cool.

I have never managed to get a turn one kill yet though!


I wanted to see what hand I should mulligan. I usually mulligan 1 land hands even with a top. I tried keeping a 1 land hand again with top as both combo pieces and blast and bloodmoon made up the rest and got mana screwed in that game again. So far my record has been very poor for keeping 1 land hand even when going 2nd.

I kept another hand that had 2 grindstone, one REB, one mountain, one duel, 2 Ancient tomb. I lost badly. Do you think I should have kept that hand or mulligan? Considering it was the first game and i went first, I did not even know if the blast was useful. Although blue is in almost half the decks in legacy. A draw of painter/tutor in turn 2 would be great... but otherwise it seems like a no action draw.

[Tiago]

You can make that choice yourself, but if you put the combo on the table, you can hit yourself with it EOT and Weld in the Grave hate, then go again when you untap.

The other option is to switch to the Helm/Rip Combo. I run it in the side because it removes the need to use a Creature and that can be an issue locally. But it is a huge space hog in the side so that's really a personal choice.

Sorry, but what "EoT" means? And personally, in your experience, what is the better option for you in this game?

Another thing... Did you never get a problem about oponents putting Emrakull on their SB? Oponents with decks like JUND, BLADES, BUGS... Because this should be a problem.

Sorry about the noobs questions!

[Matsaya]

Sorry, but what "EoT" means?

End of turn.
The idea is to mill yourself at the end of your opponent's turn, and at your untap to weld a crypt from your graveyard into play and mill your opponent.
The problem with this solution is to not loose at your draw step ...

[Tiago]

End of turn.
The idea is to mill yourself at the end of your opponent's turn, and at your untap to weld a crypt from your graveyard into play and mill your opponent.
The problem with this solution is to not loose at your draw step ...

But if I have the combo in the field, I will lost if I mill myself, right?