[Deck] 12 Post

[endqwerty]

I think Rock Lee just summed up my biggest issue with playing this deck. Not having a plan. I'm just not used to it. These tips were helpful. I hope to play better in the near future. Thanks guys.

[203995014]

I disagree. T1 Pithing Needle is a perfectly acceptable play when you have (A) the kind of proactive hand that will win quickly against most decks as long as they don't have Wasteland (example: Forest, Cloudpost, Vesuva, Vesuva, Eye of Ugin, Candelabra, Pithing Needle), (B) an otherwise solid hand but no Crop Rotation, or (C) a solid hand without colored sources (note: this probably doesn't apply as much to U/G builds). Under those circumstances, I have no problem playing the odds and blind-naming Wasteland in a meta where a sizable portion of the meta plays it. Stopping Wasteland is the primary reason to play Needle anyway; to me, everything else it hits is just gravy.

Hand A: That hand is actually very bad, it requires the opponent to do literally nothing except pass lands to even have a remote chance at executing the plan.

Hand B: If it's an otherwise solid hand without crop rotation, you shouldn't need wasteland protection.

Hand C: If it didn't have colored mana it probably wasn't very good in the first place.

"Stopping Wasteland is the primary reason to play Needle anyway; to me, everything else it hits is just gravy."

That should actually be the other way around, Needles is a stall tactic and a control piece, hitting wasteland is just gravy.

[Rock Lee]

I think Rock Lee just summed up my biggest issue with playing this deck. Not having a plan. I'm just not used to it. These tips were helpful. I hope to play better in the near future. Thanks guys.

Another way to evaluate this mindset is to try to always maximize your options. Most decks operate with a basic knowledge of statistics, but this deck lives by statistics.

[sauce]

Btw, I finally got to do something insane w/ Candelabra for the first time ever in an actual tournament last Saturday.
Both Clint (caw_86) and I play in the same LGS and Clint has been playing 12Post for the last 6 months or so. We've been lucky to only play the mirror a handful of times but this time it was not to be.

G3, I was on the draw and Clint slammed a T4 Titan by having 2 Cloudposts, 2 Trops in play. He fetched up 2 more Cloudposts after thinking for a bit and shipped turn.

My board at this time was:
SDT, Vesuva (copying his Tropical island), Basic Island and a Cloudpost.

My hand was:
Repeal, Repeal, Primeval Titan, Brainstorm, Brainstorm, Karakas, Swan Song

My 1 Cloudpost tapped for 5 though thanks to his 4 Cloudposts.
I brainstorm, hit Repeal, Cloudpost, Trinket Mage. Put back Brainstorm, Swan Song.
Play Cloudpost (6 total in play now).
Tap Vesuva for Blue (Trop) and Cloudpost (6), Cast Trinket Mage, have 4 Colorless floating. Go get Candelabra.
Cast Candelabra, 3 mana floating. Untap Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Vesuva (Trop). 0 Floating.

For reference, my hand is now: Repeal, Repeal, Repeal, Primeval, Karakas.

Tap Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Vesuva (Trop) for 12 Colorless + 1 Green. Repeal Candelabra, 11 colorless mana floating. Draw something (irrelevant).
Play Candelabra, 10 coloreless floating. Untap Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Vesuva (Trop), Island. 6 coloreless floating. Tap Island, Vesuva (Tropical) + 2 Cloudposts for 12 mana.
Total mana: 18 colorless, 1 blue and 1 green in pool.
Repeal (#2) Candelabra with 17 colorless, 1 green in pool. Draw something that does not matter.
Play Candelabra 16 colorless, 1 green. Tap for another 12 colorless up to 28 colorless (2 Cloudposts), 1 more blue (2 blue total now) and untap 2 Cloudposts, 1 Island and 1 Vesuva (Trop).
Mana now: 24 colorless, 1 green and 2 blue.
Tap the Vesuva (Trop), cast Primeval Titan. Total mana: 20 colorless, 2 blue.
Get Eye of Ugin, Cloudpost.
Repeal (#3) Candelabra, 19 colorless, 1 blue. (Draw something else that does not matter)
Replay Candelabra, 18 colorless, 1 blue.
Untap 3 Cloudposts, 1 Eye of Ugin, 14 colorless, 1 blue.

Clint (caw_86) scooped at this point.

I basically went from "can't possibly win" to "won the game" because of how stupid Candelabra is in this deck and especially in the mirror.
For those of you who ask "is Candelabra necessary in this deck?", this is the example you're looking for.
I've been playing this deck for 10 months every weekend and this situation has only come up once for me so far, but it would not be possible if I did not have the Candelabra and/or figured out the line.

[TheBoozeCube]

Hand A: That hand is actually very bad, it requires the opponent to do literally nothing except pass lands to even have a remote chance at executing the plan.

Drawing nothing else, that hand gives you a T4 Kozilek or Ulamog, or a T5 Emrakul. And you're going to draw cards before that. Most of the time, a hand like that should beat Delver, Stoneblade, Miracles, Jund, D&T, and other fair decks that don't kill you by T4. It's bad against combo, sure, but it's strong against a large chunk of the field.

Hand B: If it's an otherwise solid hand without crop rotation, you shouldn't need wasteland protection.

Unless I'm not playing against Wasteland in the first place, I can think of very few solid hands that wouldn't benefit from Wasteland protection. And most of those hands are off in Magical Christmasland. (I should note that I'm not playing U/G, so I don't play S&T.)

Hand C: If it didn't have colored mana it probably wasn't very good in the first place.

Like I noted, this probably doesn't apply often to U/G builds. I have a total of 11 colored cards in my maindeck. There are many, many possible hands without colored mana that I'd be perfectly happy to keep.

"Stopping Wasteland is the primary reason to play Needle anyway; to me, everything else it hits is just gravy."

That should actually be the other way around, Needles is a stall tactic and a control piece, hitting wasteland is just gravy.

I can think of only a handful of other often-played permanents that really matter enough that I would truly regret blind-naming Wasteland: Sneak Attack, Griselbrand, Jace, Lili, and Belcher. And of these, Sneak Attack is the only one I'm really afraid of. The odds of facing Belcher in any given match are pretty low. Griselbrand is powerful but easily neutralized. The decks that play Jace are already favorable matchups. And Lili is mostly scary only if Jund/BUG have nut draws (and generally favorable matchups otherwise).

[sauce]

I can think of only a handful of other often-played permanents that really matter enough that I would truly regret blind-naming Wasteland: Sneak Attack, Griselbrand, Jace, Lili, and Belcher. And of these, Sneak Attack is the only one I'm really afraid of. The odds of facing Belcher in any given match are pretty low. Griselbrand is powerful but easily neutralized. The decks that play Jace are already favorable matchups. And Lili is mostly scary only if Jund/BUG have nut draws (and generally favorable matchups otherwise).

I have needled DRS a lot more than wasteland personally w/ this deck.

[maCHOOga]

I basically went from "can't possibly win" to "won the game" because of how stupid Candelabra is in this deck and especially in the mirror.
For those of you who ask "is Candelabra necessary in this deck?", this is the example you're looking for.
I've been playing this deck for 10 months every weekend and this situation has only come up once for me so far, but it would not be possible if I did not have the Candelabra and/or figured out the line.

I agree with you, everytime I've resolved a candelbra, I've won. That's why I'm picking up the 2nd copy.

Also, was the mirror match te most ridiculous and obsurd magic game ever?!

[TheBoozeCube]

I basically went from "can't possibly win" to "won the game" because of how stupid Candelabra is in this deck and especially in the mirror.
For those of you who ask "is Candelabra necessary in this deck?", this is the example you're looking for.
I've been playing this deck for 10 months every weekend and this situation has only come up once for me so far, but it would not be possible if I did not have the Candelabra and/or figured out the line.

Yep. This is why I play the full 4x.

[caw_86]

I agree with you, everytime I've resolved a candelbra, I've won. That's why I'm picking up the 2nd copy.

Also, was the mirror match te most ridiculous and obsurd magic game ever?!

the mirror match IS the most awkward games of magic you'll probably ever play.

my game 1 against sauce, i was on the draw, he played titan on turn 4 passed with 5 posts in play, i had garden, cloud post, island, crop for post EOT, cast emrakul t4. this however was due to a rushed and/or lack there of math which could have been avoided. the first few turns are a normal game, it only gets complicated once a cloupost is in play. as you can see by both games we each played titan then died. my plan when i played titan was drop my eye next turn and win, but sadly never got another turn. i was not expecting the candle, i thought i had it wrapped when i passed to post, island, trop. i would definitely say playing your lands correctly is the most important part, thankfully mirror matches don't come up to often.

G2 i got blown out by a swan song on crop rotation on turn 2 and never recovered.

[sauce]

RockLee has warned everyone in here previously about how horrible the mirror match experience is. the only saving grace about it is it usually ends very quickly.
Most of the times you just have to not go too crazy, resolve Titan but think about what you're getting with the trigger not in terms of your own next turn, but opponent's best possible scenario on next turn in terms of mana production. Candelabra obviously should not be counted most of the time because it will pretty much always beat you.

Basically, if you are the first one to resolve Titan, you could almost always just get Eye and Karakas or something else that won't give your opponent any Cloudpost mana advantage. You have to also consider "can they crop rotate EOT" for the math, etc.
The reason is, once you Titan, you could attack next turn and get the 2 Cloudposts on your own turn to boost the mana and probably hardcast at least Ulamog if not Emrakul. IF you got a Candelabra in the mirror, it's pretty much GG.
I feel like if you don't have the Candelabra, you may as well just needle it because it's that OP.

Quick edit, I forgot to mention that I used to be one of the people who claimed you do not need Candelabra in this deck and have had a ridiculous win % w/o one. I still stand by the point that you can play w/o it, but you're not going to get the wins that it enables which may not be very often but it definitely comes up.

[Rock Lee]

Won my weekly event with this list:

// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
3 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm

// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [ON] Chain of Vapor
2 [US] Show and Tell

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [ARC] Memnarch
SB: 2 [CMD] Flusterstorm

Matchups were: bye(sadly), Death and Taxes (2-0), 4 color Enchantress (2-0), and Food chain (2-0).

Highlights included Stealing Enchantress's Helm of Obedience and helm killing him. And Killing food chain with x2 revokers and x3 of their own strix/shardless. All enabled with Memnarch.

[endqwerty]

How were the 4 revokers and the 3 chain of vapors

[sauce]

New videos:

• vs Monoblack - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ahx...ature=youtu.be
• vs Painter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeKI...ature=youtu.be

[Maagler]

New videos:

• vs Monoblack - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ahx...ature=youtu.be
• vs Painter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeKI...ature=youtu.be

Your videos = better than Netflix

thanks!

[sauce]

Your videos = better than Netflix

thanks!

Thank you. I got another another video vs Painter (rw) coming up as we speak.

[sauce]

vs Painter (Rw) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=633k...ature=youtu.be

[Rock Lee]

How were the 4 revokers and the 3 chain of vapors

Amazing beyond words. There are no matchups where you need both, so the copy doesn't hurt you. Revoker simply transforms bad matchups into unlosable matchups. And CoV/Revoker cover pithing needle's needs.

[PilotChick]

Finally a new rock lee build! Can't wait to try it out

[Rock Lee]

I changed it slightly for Tuesday's weekly event. dropped 1 repeal for 1 vesuva. and the sideboard went upto 3 bebs, down to 2 EE, no flusters. Liked it more by far. Got 2nd due to some unfortunate rng of my opponent nut drawing and the next game me drawing zero lands or mapsin 7 turns.

[TheBoozeCube]

With all the flavor in KTK pointing towards Ugin and a return of the Eldrazi, I know I can't be the only one excited about the possibilities of getting some powerful new toys for our favorite archetype -- especially new incarnations of the legendary Eldrazi to tutor up. More immediately, I also would not be surprised to see Ugin himself show up by the end of this block, likely as a large colorless planeswalker at a power level on par with Karn or Bolas. Obviously this is pure speculation, but if we do in fact get Ugin, what kind of abilities do y'all think would be most useful here?